Anyone regretting buying a cMBP?

0dev said:
I don't regret it at all. I have never and will never buy any computer which doesn't allow me to upgrade it. If Apple makes everything into a sealed unit I will stop buying Apple computers.

I am however very happy with my cMPB. I will be fitting an SSD into it a year or two when they become better value and I'll do a RAM upgrade while I'm at it too.
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What if all laptops become non-upgradeable?
 
Spink10 said:
What if all laptops become non-upgradeable?
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That will never happen. As long as there's a market for upgradable laptops someone will sell them. And there are a lot of people who find upgradability important, especially PC guys.

I expect Apple will stop making upgradable laptops this year though, so when it comes to upgrading from my MBP in a few years time I'll just get a Lenovo and install Linux Mint on it.
 
Dented said:
But can you be so sure your rMBP will hold its value so well? Think about it - anyone buying a "classic" mac knows that they can probably repair most things themselves if it goes wrong, and easily replace or upgrade most of the ageing components.

Whoever buys your rMBP in a few years will know they're buying a product that cannot be economically repaired or upgraded - it'll be an old computer that, if any part of it fails, will be fit only for the bin. Would you pay so much for that?
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I wouldn't say "repair most things themselves". The "only" non-replaceable component in the rMBP verus the cMBP is the RAM. How often does RAM go bad? Pretty much never. Pretty much all the other components are just as replaceable in the rMBP as the cMBP. Besides "most" users aren't going to be "replacing" anything in their MBP, whether cMBP or rMBP. I would argue "most" users aren't the DIY types found here on the forums. The vast majority just buy computers and use them until the next shiny object is released. They rarely if at all max out the performance of their systems to the point where they "need" to buy another computer. Again, they just buy the next shiny object.

True the SSD form factor is different in the rMBP but it is replaceable although there are only 4 current producers of the SSD, including Apple's 2 providers. So ya may not be economical right now but give it another year or so. That form factor will get traction and other companies will be producing them especially when the "PC" industry follows suit by copying Apples SSD design.
 
Fissure said:
I wouldn't say "repair most things themselves". The "only" non-replaceable component in the rMBP verus the cMBP is the RAM. How often does RAM go bad? Pretty much never. Pretty much all the other components are just as replaceable in the rMBP as the cMBP. Besides "most" users aren't going to be "replacing" anything in their MBP, whether cMBP or rMBP. I would argue "most" users aren't the DIY types found here on the forums. The vast majority just buy computers and use them until the next shiny object is released. They rarely if at all max out the performance of their systems to the point where they "need" to buy another computer. Again, they just buy the next shiny object.

True the SSD form factor is different in the rMBP but it is replaceable although there are only 4 current producers of the SSD, including Apple's 2 providers. So ya may not be economical right now but give it another year or so. That form factor will get traction and other companies will be producing them especially when the "PC" industry follows suit by copying Apples SSD design.
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Not really, virtually nothing is user replaceable on the rMBP. See here. iFixit called it the worst laptop for repairability they've ever seen.
 
Fissure said:
I would argue "most" users aren't the DIY types found here on the forums. The vast majority just buy computers and use them until the next shiny object is released.
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Not so much on the used market; the people buying macs second hand are thriftier, looking for solid and affordable tech and not just blinded by the shiny. I'd argue that they're probably more comfortable tinkering and upgrading in order to get the best out of older machines, and they're certainly more interested in how repairable the machine they're buying might be, considering it's unlikely to come with any warranty.
 
0dev said:
Not really, virtually nothing is user replaceable on the rMBP. See here. iFixit called it the worst laptop for repairability they've ever seen.
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Besides the RAM the "replaceable" components are the same. Are they "harder" to replace in the rMBP? Depends who you ask but the fact is virtually ALL the components in a rMBP are just as "replaceable" as the cMBP. The only thing iFixit notes between the 2 that they say would not be replaceable on the rMBP are it's LCD components. How many people replace LCD components? This is in line with I stated previously. The vast majority of people don't tinker with their MPB's. And the ones that do, like us here are on the forums, will find virtually everything replaceable in the rMBP except for RAM and possibly individual LCD components.

I really don't understand why people think most of the hardware in the rMBP isn't replaceable. It is (fans, batteries, trackpad, heat sink, speakers, SSD, Airport Card, MagSafe 2 Connector, etc.). Look for yourself, the actual iFixit article.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Retina+Display+Late+2012+Teardown/11225/1

If non-replaceable RAM by itself is a reason for someone to not buy a rMBP then sure I agree obviously that the rMBP is NOT for them. I just hate that people think EVERYTHING else is NOT replaceable in the
rMBP when in fact it is.
 
thejadedmonkey said:
Can't upgrade your RAM, can't upgrade your HDD... And sure it's $200 to max out the RAM from Apple, but that's only RAM from Apple. There's no amount of money that will let you upgrade the retina MacBook pro to its maximum RAM limit. Sure it's superfluous now, but 3 years from now an additional 16gb of RAM can be the difference between a $3000 laptop and a $300 upgrade.

Likewise, what if I want a 2TB SSD? Apple only lets me go up to 750gb, and give it 3 years and I'd be shocked if you can't get a 2TB drive. But not for the retina MacBook pro!
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I couldn't imagine needing more than 16 gigs of Ram, but I might be shortsighted. As far as upgrading the HDD, it's actually SSD and from what I understand it is upgradable. Now, Apple may not offer a 2TB SSD right now, but in the 3 years that you mention they probably will, and I'm guessing you can put it in your retina then
 
Dented said:
Not so much on the used market; the people buying macs second hand are thriftier, looking for solid and affordable tech and not just blinded by the shiny. I'd argue that they're probably more comfortable tinkering and upgrading in order to get the best out of older machines, and they're certainly more interested in how repairable the machine they're buying might be, considering it's unlikely to come with any warranty.
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You're assuming that the majority of people who buy used MBP's are the ones who would feel comfortable upgrading components. I think that's a pretty big assumption. I was just stating that in general the average laptop user isn't going to tinker with the insides of their laptop. I think that's a safer assumption than what you stated about used MBP's.
 
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Fissure said:
Besides the RAM the "replaceable" components are the same. Are they "harder" to replace in the rMBP? Depends who you ask but the fact is virtually ALL the components in a rMBP are just as "replaceable" as the cMBP. The only thing iFixit notes between the 2 that they say would not be replaceable on the rMBP are it's LCD components. How many people replace LCD components? This is in line with I stated previously. The vast majority of people don't tinker with their MPB's. And the ones that do, like us here are on the forums, will find virtually everything replaceable in the rMBP except for RAM and possibly individual LCD components.

I really don't understand why people think most of the hardware in the rMBP isn't replaceable. It is (fans, batteries, trackpad, heat sink, speakers, SSD, Airport Card, MagSafe 2 Connector, etc.). Look for yourself, the actual iFixit article.

http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Retina+Display+Late+2012+Teardown/11225/1

If non-replaceable RAM by itself is a reason for someone to not buy a rMBP then sure I agree obviously that the rMBP is NOT for them. I just hate that people think EVERYTHING else is NOT replaceable in the
rMBP when in fact it is.
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You've linked to the page for the 13 inch model though. The 13 inch rMBP is a pointless laptop, by the time you actually spec it up to a reasonable level you might as well buy the 15 inch model. And that 15 inch model is much more difficult - the battery is glued in and it took them three tries and over half an hour to try and remove the battery without puncturing it, you literally cannot replace the trackpad at all, you can't replace the screen at all, the RAM is soldered on, it uses propriatry SSD technology, and so on, so forth.

The guy who actually runs iFixit took one apart himself and said these exact words: "The Retina MacBook is the least repairable laptop we’ve ever taken apart." Not only that but if you read the whole article I've linked he goes on to say that it's a very bad sign for the tech industry if this stuff is allowed to continue. All it does is allow manufacturers to rip off customers.
 
Ledgem said:
I disagree with you that the retina MBP makes more financial sense. It looks like you bought a near-maxed out standard MBP and then upgraded it with expensive components on top of that. The power of the standard MBP is that you can buy it with minimum specifications and then upgrade it later, either when you see a good sale, prices have dropped, or worst-case scenario, when you absolutely need it. Case in point, I bought my MBP with the minimum specifications available (4 GB 1300 MHz RAM, 500 GB 5400 RPM hard drive). RAM upgrade to 16 GB and a faster clock rate (1600 MHz) for just under $70 USD (it's even cheaper now), and I'm close to upgrading the hard drive to a 500 GB SSD for $270 USD (and if I keep on waiting, that price will continue to drop - some sales have taken it very close to the $250 price range). That's well under $400 for those upgrades, which would have cost me much more if it had come from Apple. But the benefits don't end there, as I'd have the option of going to 32 GB of RAM (if it ever comes out in DDR3 and if I really need it), and I'd still be able to upgrade the SSD later on.


I never understood the "if you can't afford this, you probably shouldn't buy this anyway" argument. $200 isn't a deal-breaker for me, but if I can get the same thing for $100 or even less, why the heck would I want to part with $200? The retina screen is really nice and I look forward to having a computer with one some day, but to max out a rMBP costs an awful lot - and those costs aren't associated with the screen, but with Apple's decision to solder everything to the board. Partly out of principle and partly because the retina isn't worth that much to me, I haven't bought a retina MBP. Valuing upgradeability and not blowing money to max out a system because you can't do it yourself for cheaper is a big theme of this thread. rMBP owners and potential buyers shouldn't feel spurned by it.
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Oh, I'm not defending Apple in their decision to solder the Ram in so you have to max it out at purchase and make it so you have to buy it from them at double the price. I think that sucks. But I'm not going to cry over $100. What's a bigger deal is the lack of a Optical drive and Ethernet port. But that's still not a deal breaker
 
I dont care about upgrade ability.I just want battery to be user replaceable,and not freakin glued on complete lower part of laptop.I mean c'mon.U all know thats the first thing which will eventualy 100% die. After i buy retina i must buy apple care,and after 1 year i must pay 200 $ for complete lower chassis,and after that i must pay 700$ or even more when i want to change battery.No thanx !! Im very happy with classic macbook pro.
 
A7ibaba said:
I dont care about upgrade ability.I just want battery to be user replaceable,and not freakin glued on complete lower part of laptop.I mean c'mon.U all know thats the first thing which will eventualy 100% die. After i buy retina i must buy apple care,and after 1 year i must pay 200 $ for complete lower chassis,and after that i must pay 700$ or even more when i want to change battery.No thanx !! Im very happy with classic macbook pro.
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the battery is replaceable
 
IlikeMacsSoMuch said:
I don't mean to say that it makes more financial sense, it just that it does cost more to upgrade depending with the model that you buy. The cmbp that I bought was more expensive because I choose the one with the 1 G video card and the hd mate screen. Had I known that later on I was going to buy upgrades I would have included it in the first place.
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You also bought your RAM from OWC, which is one of the more expensive options to buy from... :)

I now see what you were trying to say, though. I just bristled at your numbers, because they didn't maximize the money-saving capabilities of the cMBP - not only by going for a more expensive base MBP, but by purchasing more expensive upgrade components. Do it that way and a system with greater stock specifications will most certainly be cheaper!

adjeff8 said:
Oh, I'm not defending Apple in their decision to solder the Ram in so you have to max it out at purchase and make it so you have to buy it from them at double the price. I think that sucks. But I'm not going to cry over $100.
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Well, $100 here and $100 there, and before you know it you're out quite a bit. Since I use Apple equipment I certainly don't qualify as "most frugal person in the world" but people should try to save where they can. I prefer computers where a person can buy something that fits their needs today, and then upgrade it as their needs grow and change (and if their needs don't change, great - no upgrade needed). Having to spend more up-front because you're not sure whether you'll need it or not, but don't want to take the chance that you will... that's not consumer-friendly.
 
0dev said:
You've linked to the page for the 13 inch model though. The 13 inch rMBP is a pointless laptop, by the time you actually spec it up to a reasonable level you might as well buy the 15 inch model. And that 15 inch model is much more difficult - the battery is glued in and it took them three tries and over half an hour to try and remove the battery without puncturing it, you literally cannot replace the trackpad at all, you can't replace the screen at all, the RAM is soldered on, it uses propriatry SSD technology, and so on, so forth.

The guy who actually runs iFixit took one apart himself and said these exact words: "The Retina MacBook is the least repairable laptop we’ve ever taken apart." Not only that but if you read the whole article I've linked he goes on to say that it's a very bad sign for the tech industry if this stuff is allowed to continue. All it does is allow manufacturers to rip off customers.
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I bought a 13" rMBP because, well it's a 13" laptop and not a 15" laptop. But that's beside the point. We aren't discussing the usability of the 13" laptop versus the 15" laptop. We are discussing the upgradeability of rMBP's. Please stay on point.

The 15" rMBP iFixit teardown was done by iFixit before they did their 13" rMBP teardown as the 15" laptop was released before the 13" one. iFixit learned from the 15" teardown about how to take the battery out and therefore was able to take the battery out of the 13" laptop without puncturing the battery cells. The batteries in both laptops are replaceable it's just that they are hard to do and you have to be careful. The trackpad in the 15" laptop IS replaceable. iFixit noted that because they had issues taking the 15" battery out and because the trackpad had a wire beneath the battery that replacing the trackpad was hard but not impossible. With experience now they can take the battery out of either laptop.

You CAN replace the screen, as in the entire panel. They advise against not taking apart the screen into individual components. How many people do that anyway on their cMBP? The SSD is replaceable. Are you not reading my replies?

All these components ARE replaceable. I'm not real sure how that's not
obvious to you at this point. I've stated the facts in all my replies. If you can't understand them then there's really nothing more for me to say.

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0dev said:
No it isn't, not unless you want to spend 30 minutes making sure you don't puncture the battery and spill acid everywhere while trying to remove it.
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What part of replaceable do you not understand? We aren't debating "how easy" replacing the parts are. The fact is the battery is replaceable. That is a fact. Whether or not one decides to try it themselves depends upon their skill level. But that's not what is being discussed. I may not feel comfortable doing it but Joe Shmoe may.

From the iFixit teardown of the 13" rMBP, removing the battery:

"The task took us roughly 15 minutes to complete, without the use of a heat gun. All we needed was a Torx screwdriver and three spudgers."
 
Well for me (selling my mba 11) i could get a rMBP 13", but would not be happy with the base model, which i can afford but would like to spec it up knowing that i would be limited in the future...

However im more than happy to have the cMBP (im buying the base 13"), i dont do a lot of intensive work and nor do i like the retina screen (i know, i know) my brother as the ipad 4 and i prefer my ipad 2 screen....
processor wise i think the i5 2.5ghz will be fine for me for a good few years as my newborn dictates how often i change and how much i spend on my tech these days..
I can get computer components through my job, so the 13" cMBP will be more than enough for me knowing i can buy parts for it and cheaply..

This brings me to my questions, without starting a new thread:
1) do the 13 cMBP come with 1 x 4gb ram or are they 2 x 2gb ram

2) i have heard people taking out the superdrive, and putting in 2 SSDs and having Raid, to get good read/write speeds - how do i do this on a mac? I know about the optibay and what ssds to get, but how do i set the raid up and configure it for max speed
 
barebackbadger8 said:
Well for me (selling my mba 11) i could get a rMBP 13", but would not be happy with the base model, which i can afford but would like to spec it up knowing that i would be limited in the future...

However im more than happy to have the cMBP (im buying the base 13"), i dont do a lot of intensive work and nor do i like the retina screen (i know, i know) my brother as the ipad 4 and i prefer my ipad 2 screen....
processor wise i think the i5 2.5ghz will be fine for me for a good few years as my newborn dictates how often i change and how much i spend on my tech these days..
I can get computer components through my job, so the 13" cMBP will be more than enough for me knowing i can buy parts for it and cheaply..

This brings me to my questions, without starting a new thread:
1) do the 13 cMBP come with 1 x 4gb ram or are they 2 x 2gb ram

2) i have heard people taking out the superdrive, and putting in 2 SSDs and having Raid, to get good read/write speeds - how do i do this on a mac? I know about the optibay and what ssds to get, but how do i set the raid up and configure it for max speed
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A single SSD is more than likely plenty fast for you. Setting up 2 SSD's in RAID 0 will increase speed but only marginally being that the 2 disks are SSD's (no moving internal parts). A greater performance increase can be had when setting up 2 non-SSD disks in RAID 0 as non-SSD's have moving parts and with RAID 0 on non-SSD's you are taking advantage of two moving heads reading and writing
across both disks. Keep in mind though 2 non-SSD's in RAID 0 will still be slower than 1 SSD. Plus RAID 0 offers no disk redundancy as opposed to RAID 1 which mirrors one disk to another.

With all that in mind I'd get 1 SSD and use it to put OSX on (install it in the disk carrier) and then use your other non-SSD to store your files (media etc.). Then combine that with an external backup drive to use Time Machine against for backups.

Or if you want in-box redundancy and speed then do RAID 1 (mirroring) with 2 SSD's.

The RAID would be software based using OSX's Disk Utility to combine the disks.
 
I have the rMBP and the cMBP. The cMBP looks extremely fat compared to the rMBP, it's amazing.

It's crazy how once you seen something new, the old automatically looks outdated.
 
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