Anyone successfully install Leopard on an Old World PCI Mac?

[ziggy29]

So I've basically finished most of my upgrades on my 7600 project. It has a gig of RAM, a 1 GHz G4 processor, Radeon 9200 graphics, two USB and two FW ports, and a total of about 375 GB of storage (between an "SSD" which is an mSATA/IDE solution and a 7200 RPM HDD hooked into a Sonnet Tango PCI card), partitioned into nine volumes running 7.6.1 to Tiger and a lot in between (also 8.1, 8.6, 9.1 and 9.2.2). Two of the volumes are for shared storage and backing up the other drive, and one is reserved for a Leopard project.

Has anyone successfully installed Leopard on one of these old Macs (7300-9600 family)? Tiger was a breeze; Leopard looks like it poses some real challenges. I've heard it's been done, so I carry on and persist. (Not expecting a good user experience, but this is a hobbyist's "because I can" thing. It runs Tiger decently, but not great since the 50 MHz system bus is a bottleneck.)

There are a couple of challenges, at least. One is that Leopard needs to boot from a DVD (and these old Macs can not boot from FireWire so using Target Disk Mode from my Pismo or TiBook is out). Are there any bootable DVD drives for these models? I have an external SCSI Yamaha CD-RW which works well to boot externally (sometimes with help from XPostFacto), but it doesn't do DVDs. Another challenge is that the installer for Leopard might not want to install on this model (Leopard Assist may be able to help here, but I think it's a problem if I need both LeopardAssist *and* XPostFacto, since both of them do their own editing of NVRAM before rebooting).

I've tried using SuperDuper to clone another good, "fresh" Leopard install on a FW drive to the target volume and boot it with XPostFacto, but it fails, too -- I get the Apple logo but never get to the spinning wheel below -- it just hangs there.

 

[bunnspecial]

@Intell has done it on an 8600.

I have an 8600 prepped similarly to yours-1gb of RAM, 700mhz Sonnet G4, an Acard bootable IDE card(the Sonnet IDE cards I have are I think the same chipset), Radeon 9200, and a USB/FW card.

I have a Leopard install that @LightBulbFun put together. I know it boots on a B&W and shoot boot on a beige G3(both with G4 upgrades of course) but I can't get it to boot on the 8600 or my G4 Lombard.

In any case, Leopard isn't plug-and-play on PCI Macs like it is on AGP Macs. As you probably know, a stock Leopard install will boot on anything with AGP graphics and a G4-going all the way back to Sawtooths(Sawteeth?) and G4-upgraded Pismos. For PCI Macs you need to add in a mis-match of kexts. I think some come from Tiger, and others from the preview versions of Leopard.

 

[LightBulbFun]

indeed I have been able to boot Leopard on my G3 Beige and BW G3. Sadly I dont have PowerSurge (7300-9600) Macs to test it on. while i do have friends who have such Machines with G4s fitted finding time to test and trouble shoot it is a big issue.

 

[ziggy29]

Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. Saw this one also --

Yikes, this is only a 400 MHz G4 with 128 MB of RAM. I can't even begin to imagine how unusable it is, but still a cool proof of concept!

 

[ziggy29]

Thinking on it more, it sounds like the volume cloning method might work IF I knew which Tiger kexts to copy over?

As an aside, I used Geekbench 2.1.13 to test this rig under Tiger. It scored 438, and where it reports the machine type, it reports "Hackintosh."

(In comparison, my 1.0 GHz TiBook with SSD scored a 619.)

 

[LightBulbFun]

2.2.0 is the latest Geekbench for Tiger FYI. (2.2.7 being the latest for Leopard)

 

[ziggy29]

Thanks. I knew 2.2.7 was it for Leopard but the latest I could find for Tiger was 2.1.13. Just did some more online detective work and found version 2.2.0.

New score is 431. And now it reports "7500" as the system rather than "Hackintosh".

 

[reukiodo]

I don't think LeopardAssist will work here, as I understand it only fools the installer into thinking there is a CPU faster than what is actually installed...

That youtube video has links with the steps that are needed, as well as the filenames:
http://www.mactech.com/2008/09/23/leopard-pre-agp

Unfortunately the file links themselves are dead...
[doublepost=1485775826][/doublepost]I had a "Complete Leopard on Unsupported Macs package.7z" file that I couldn't upload whole as it exceeds the file size and type limits, so here are the parts within it.

I found this after searching the internet forever ago and unfortunately didn't bookmark the site or I would give credit where credit is due. However, since this topic is up I'd rather place the files here to make it easier for everyone to find in the future.

 

[jimjamyaha]

Hi All,

Just catching up with older mac stuff.

Hope this is useful... here's something from wayback in 2008 which may help answer the specifics of kexts and the beige g3 and onboard video etc..... my write up of getting Leopard runnning on Beige G3s all he way back to PowerMac 8500s - this time the internet archive version which should have the linked files.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130924163750/http://www.mactech.com/2008/09/23/leopard-pre-agp

James (jimjamyaha).

 

[weckart]

Hi All,

Just catching up with older mac stuff.

Hope this is useful... here's something from wayback in 2008 which may help answer the specifics of kexts and the beige g3 and onboard video etc..... my write up of getting Leopard runnning on Beige G3s all he way back to PowerMac 8500s - this time the internet archive version which should have the linked files.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130924163750/http://www.mactech.com/2008/09/23/leopard-pre-agp

James (jimjamyaha).

Thanks. I have a Beige G3 I could try the WWDC release on. Disabling the onboard graphics should be as simple as removing the discrete VRAM card from its slot.

 

[jimjamyaha]

Thanks. I have a Beige G3 I could try the WWDC release on. Disabling the onboard graphics should be as simple as removing the discrete VRAM card from its slot.

So you can install the retail release and up to the last 10.5.8 on a Beige G3 (g4 upgraded).

To disable the internal video removing the vram won't be enough. You'll need to disable it in openfirmware too.

 

[reukiodo]

... my write up of getting Leopard runnning on Beige G3s all he way back to PowerMac 8500s

That was you? Thank You! for taking all of your time to not only find out if this was possible, but also to write up about the whole process! I remember reading this article long ago and couldn't find it again when I was later given a 9500.

 

[pc297]

Hi all , I got it all working using the "Complete Leopard on Unsupported Macs package" and as described on machtech (https://web.archive.org/web/20130924163750/http://www.mactech.com/2008/09/23/leopard-pre-agp), thanks to everyone involved!

However I am not sure my GF5200 is fully QE/CI enabled, impossible to tell as with the IOGraphicsFamily.kext from WWDC2006 I and everyone gets a KP in System Profiler/Graphics/Displays. It is in Tiger (stock QE and CI supported without having to do the QE hack for PCI cards) but in Leopard my hunch is that at least CI isn't as I can't see any transparency on the top menu bar, and I am not sure about QE either as I get lower Xbench scores in graphics than with Tiger; DVD playback is also a little laggy (perfect on Tiger on the same machine, 500 MHz G4 upgraded B&W). Could also be that Leopard is more demanding.

Is there anything else to do with the GF5200 on Leopard to get QE and CI enabled, or how does one properly verify it without System Profiler/Graphics/Displays?

Cheers

 

[Amethyst1]

but in Leopard my hunch is that at least CI isn't as I can't see any transparency on the top menu bar,

The FX5200 does not actually support Core Image, so this is normal behaviour.

 

[pc297]

The FX5200 does not actually support Core Image, so this is normal behaviour.

Thanks for your answer and the links and another example of an Apple rip-off Then it is probably software-enabled as e.g. dropping-down a widget does for example give the ripple effect with the 5200?

On the page you link, some have apparently forced CI to hardware-enabled but it is apparently slower, do you have any experience with that?

Cheers,

 

[Macbookprodude]

too slow even on a Sawtooth 350.

 

[Project Alice]

too slow even on a Sawtooth 350.

I have it on my B&W. It runs great. One of these days I'm gonna shoehorn it onto my Beige G4 tower.

Hi all , I got it all working using the "Complete Leopard on Unsupported Macs package" and as described on machtech (https://web.archive.org/web/20130924163750/http://www.mactech.com/2008/09/23/leopard-pre-agp), thanks to everyone involved!

However I am not sure my GF5200 is fully QE/CI enabled, impossible to tell as with the IOGraphicsFamily.kext from WWDC2006 I and everyone gets a KP in System Profiler/Graphics/Displays. It is in Tiger (stock QE and CI supported without having to do the QE hack for PCI cards) but in Leopard my hunch is that at least CI isn't as I can't see any transparency on the top menu bar, and I am not sure about QE either as I get lower Xbench scores in graphics than with Tiger; DVD playback is also a little laggy (perfect on Tiger on the same machine, 500 MHz G4 upgraded B&W). Could also be that Leopard is more demanding.

Is there anything else to do with the GF5200 on Leopard to get QE and CI enabled, or how does one properly verify it without System Profiler/Graphics/Displays?

Cheers

Thanks for your answer and the links and another example of an Apple rip-off Then it is probably software-enabled as e.g. dropping-down a widget does for example give the ripple effect with the 5200?

On the page you link, some have apparently forced CI to hardware-enabled but it is apparently slower, do you have any experience with that?

Cheers,

I actually have the same card in my B&W G4. I didn't need to do anything, the card worked properly out of the box.
Yes, the ripple effect works on the Geforce 5200. I'm not sure which other UI elements are CI enabled. The ripple effect should also work in Tiger.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I find old world Macs just aren't capable of running any real form of OS X.. if the Kanga can't, what makes you think any of the old world macs would ? Now, Leopard runs good on a sawtooth 500, but with a powerful video card, like the 9800.

 

[Project Alice]

I find old world Macs just aren't capable of running any real form of OS X.. if the Kanga can't, what makes you think any of the old world macs would ? Now, Leopard runs good on a sawtooth 500, but with a powerful video card, like the 9800.

I literally shove Leopard onto anything that is capable of booting it.
The performance difference between it and Tiger is negligible. If you’ve known me on these forums over the past few years you’ll know I’ve said this before.

Yes graphics hardware plays a big part of how leopard feels. But even without QE/CI it is usable ask any of us with G4 Pismo’s Leopard runs fine once you get it to recognize the Rage 128.

I have Tiger on my Beige G4 tower with a Radeon 9200. It isn’t fast but it runs it just fine. I’ve even made posts on this forum using that Mac and TenFourFox.
The other old world mac I have running OS X is a 233MHz Wallstreet. I have Jaguar on it at the moment but it actually is pretty pleasant experience. I like to use it as a buffer machine for using my Jaz disks under OS X.

Also, the Kanga is perfectly capable of running OS X. It just isn’t “supported” for some reason. The only Macs that can’t run it are the NuBus based ones.
Even 603 Macs can run up to Jaguar with little effort.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I find old world Macs just aren't capable of running any real form of OS X.. if the Kanga can't, what makes you think any of the old world macs would ?

PowerBook-G3-Kanga-3500 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a 3500 with a PowerPC G3 (740/750) processor.

browser.geekbench.com

 

[B S Magnet]

PowerBook-G3-Kanga-3500 - Geekbench

Benchmark results for a 3500 with a PowerPC G3 (740/750) processor.

browser.geekbench.com

I love this especially because folks still underestimate what the PPC750 can accomplish. The 250MHz G3 upgrade on here still clocks faster than the 180MHz clock speed of the radiation-hardened PPC750RADs used in new and ongoing missions to Mars (like InSight, MRO, Curiosity, Perseverance, and so on), Kepler, and so many other missions.

 

[Amethyst1]

the 180MHz clock speed of the radiation-hardened PPC750RADs used in new and ongoing missions to Mars (like InSight, MRO, Curiosity, Perseverance, and so on), Kepler, and so many other missions.

These don't run heavy OS X though

 

[B S Magnet]

These don't run heavy OS X though

SO VERY TRUE.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I literally shove Leopard onto anything that is capable of booting it.
The performance difference between it and Tiger is negligible. If you’ve known me on these forums over the past few years you’ll know I’ve said this before.

Yes graphics hardware plays a big part of how leopard feels. But even without QE/CI it is usable ask any of us with G4 Pismo’s Leopard runs fine once you get it to recognize the Rage 128.

I have Tiger on my Beige G4 tower with a Radeon 9200. It isn’t fast but it runs it just fine. I’ve even made posts on this forum using that Mac and TenFourFox.
The other old world mac I have running OS X is a 233MHz Wallstreet. I have Jaguar on it at the moment but it actually is pretty pleasant experience. I like to use it as a buffer machine for using my Jaz disks under OS X.

Also, the Kanga is perfectly capable of running OS X. It just isn’t “supported” for some reason. The only Macs that can’t run it are the NuBus based ones.
Even 603 Macs can run up to Jaguar with little effort.

impressive.

 

[reukiodo]

I literally shove Leopard onto anything that is capable of booting it.

I am the same. Any Mac of mine with a G4 only runs 10.5, or maybe also dual-boots OS9. The only systems I boot 10.4 on are G3 or below.

The only G4 that I have 10.4 on is the PowerMacintosh 9500, because it multi-boots 7.5.5, 8.6, 9.2.2, 10.4, and 10.5. I suppose when I put a larger drive in there, I'll install more versions, like 8.1, 10.0, 10.1, 10.2, and 10.3 for a more complete multiboot setup.