...anything new on MBP 12"?

mikesk8

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Sorry for starting the old topic;) however, Apple released new 24" iMac yesterday and I started to think what are the chances for MBP 12"?

There is still a huge gap between MB (white) and MBP - 700USD. Personally, I do not consider Blackbook as a high-end MB (just different paint). All companies around have ultra-portable laptops available and mainly there are considered to be pro models. An old Powerbook 12" was a popular model as fas as I know.
 

Piarco

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Its not going to happen is the general consensus. The top end (be it white or black) MP is seen as the replacement of the 12" PB. Forget about names for the moment, and think specs - particularly that of the 15.4" MBP and the old 12" PB. Then think about the MB. Apart from the lack of stand alone graphics card, the MB is every bit the 12" PB replacement, which was never a graphics powerhouse to begin with.

When the next MB comes out with the new intel chipset & graphics, it'll be a more than adequate PB 12" replacement. It is already!

And Apple - on releasing the MB - did have posters up saying things along the line of "MacBook - the laptop family complete" with the entire portable range on the poster.
 

generik

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Aug 5, 2005
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Piarco said:
Its no


  1. And Apple - on releasing the MB - did have posters up saying things along the line of "MacBook - the laptop family complete" with the entire portable range on the poster.


  1. A family can always have a new child.. or new Man, like the iMac family.
 

mikesk8

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May 17, 2006
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Piarco said:
Its not going to happen is the general consensus. The top end (be it white or black) MP is seen as the replacement of the 12" PB. Forget about names for the moment, and think specs - particularly that of the 15.4" MBP and the old 12" PB. Then think about the MB. Apart from the lack of stand alone graphics card, the MB is every bit the 12" PB replacement, which was never a graphics powerhouse to begin with.

When the next MB comes out with the new intel chipset & graphics, it'll be a more than adequate PB 12" replacement. It is already!

And Apple - on releasing the MB - did have posters up saying things along the line of "MacBook - the laptop family complete" with the entire portable range on the poster.
Yes, I agree with you. However, there are still some elements missing in MB: size and weight (it should be much below 2kg), backlit keyboard, nice aluminium case (more pro looking), FW800. I guess it is for a bit different market than MB....just thinking...
 

generik

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mikesk8 said:
Yes, I agree with you. However, there are still some elements missing in MB: size and weight (it should be much below 2kg), backlit keyboard, nice aluminium case (more pro looking), FW800. I guess it is for a bit different market than MB....just thinking...
Just to remind you, the old PBG4 12" didn't have a backlit keyboard either.
 

Abstract

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mikesk8 said:
Yes, I agree with you. However, there are still some elements missing in MB: size and weight (it should be much below 2kg), backlit keyboard, nice aluminium case (more pro looking), FW800. I guess it is for a bit different market than MB....just thinking...
No, the 12" PB never had a backlit keyboard, and it's graphics card was always much worse than the 15" and 17" PowerBooks. It was thicker than the 12" and 17" PBs, and probably heavier than they should have been. So in essense, nothing has changed. The 13" MB is the replacement of the 12" PowerBook in every way. ;)
 

Piarco

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mikesk8 said:
Yes, I agree with you. However, there are still some elements missing in MB: size and weight (it should be much below 2kg), backlit keyboard, nice aluminium case (more pro looking), FW800. I guess it is for a bit different market than MB....just thinking...
Like generik says, the 12"PB never had the backlit keyboard - although I always wished it did!

Weight would be resolved with the aluminium case, but besides the FW800, there's not enough to distinguish the lines other than the aluminium case. Hence no 13.3" MBP. God knows I'd get one if it had a dedicated GPU. As it stands I'll have to move to a MBP unless the next major MB upgrade is Aperture compliant. Which unfortunately I doubt. :(
 

mikesk8

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generik said:
Just to remind you, the old PBG4 12" didn't have a backlit keyboard either.
I know:) however, there is always place for improvement:)...

MB is a very nice consumer computer, but still I think that there is a place for pro/premium 12" one.
 

generik

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mikesk8 said:
I know:) however, there is always place for improvement:)...

MB is a very nice consumer computer, but still I think that there is a place for pro/premium 12" one.
The MB is actually quite nice although I can't quite get the hang of the keys, it seems like you have to spread out your fingers a bit more to type on these.
 

mikesk8

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Abstract said:
No, the 12" PB never had a backlit keyboard, and it's graphics card was always much worse than the 15" and 17" PowerBooks. It was thicker than the 12" and 17" PBs, and probably heavier than they should have been. So in essense, nothing has changed. The 13" MB is the replacement of the 12" PowerBook in every way. ;)
OKi;) maybe replacement is not a perfect word here; I meant more like a new member of the PRO family; 12".. people will be paying for size, weight, case, and dedicated card.
 

mikesk8

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generik said:
The MB is actually quite nice although I can't quite get the hang of the keys, it seems like you have to spread out your fingers a bit more to type on these.
Yes, very nice consumer machine:)) I was thinking more about something like e.g. Sony SZ.
 

John Jacob

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Feb 11, 2003
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Piarco said:
Its not going to happen is the general consensus. The top end (be it white or black) MP is seen as the replacement of the 12" PB. Forget about names for the moment, and think specs - particularly that of the 15.4" MBP and the old 12" PB. Then think about the MB. Apart from the lack of stand alone graphics card, the MB is every bit the 12" PB replacement, which was never a graphics powerhouse to begin with.

When the next MB comes out with the new intel chipset & graphics, it'll be a more than adequate PB 12" replacement. It is already!
If you compare the spec's of yesterday's model with those of today's model, they'll never be equal. The MB is an iBook replacement from the point of form factor and portability.

Right now there is a hole in Apple's lineup for an ultra-portable - something which can compete with Sony's VAIO TX and SZ series. Sooner or later, Apple will have to come up with something that can compete with those machines. I'm guessing sooner, but I'm ready to wait for later.
 

John Jacob

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Abstract said:
It was thicker than the 12" and 17" PBs, and probably heavier than they should have been.
The difference was 0.1", for crying out loud! The PB17 was 1" thick, the PB15 was 1.1" and the PB12 was 1.2". If you have ever seen the iBook-12" and the PB-12" side-by-side, there is a HUGE difference in portability (even if there wasn't all that much of a difference in specs).

The MacBook is still much closer to the iBook than the PB. From Apple's website, you can see that the 15" MBP weighs 5.6 lbs, and the 13" MB weighs 5.2 lbs. They really need to fit in a pro notebook that weighs under 4 lbs.
 

Piarco

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John Jacob said:
If you compare the spec's of yesterday's model with those of today's model, they'll never be equal. The MB is an iBook replacement from the point of form factor and portability.
You say specs, then only point out the form factor and portability - I was specifically talking about hardware specifications, not the design. Yes the MB is a replacement for the iBook in looks (although the case design - not material - is more in line with the 12" PB than the iBook), but its hardware is very much in line with what would be a 13.3" MBP. It only boils down to one thing - the looks. And I'm afraid that won't be enough for Apple to purely wrap MB hardware in an aluminium shell... as much as we'd want them to.
 

mikesk8

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Piarco said:
You say specs, then only point out the form factor and portability - I was specifically talking about hardware specifications, not the design. Yes the MB is a replacement for the iBook in looks (although the case design - not material - is more in line with the 12" PB than the iBook), but its hardware is very much in line with what would be a 13.3" MBP. It only boils down to one thing - the looks. And I'm afraid that won't be enough for Apple to purely wrap MB hardware in an aluminium shell... as much as we'd want them to.
Its not only adding aluminium shell..its more about making it 12" ultra-portable = around 1.7kg, etc.
 

John Jacob

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Piarco said:
You say specs, then only point out the form factor and portability - I was specifically talking about hardware specifications, not the design.
Yeah, but my point was that comparing the specs of today's model with an obsolete one is apples to oranges. If you want to compare specs, the MacBook would probably beat the last 17" PowerBook on most applications. There is space in Apple's lineup for a premium model with specs comparable to or a bit better than that of the MacBook, but much lighter and more portable and geared to someone who travels a lot. There would be a lot of people who would pay a premium for such a notebook (I know I would).
 

Abstract

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John Jacob said:
The PB17 was 1" thick, the PB15 was 1.1" and the PB12 was 1.2". If you have ever seen the iBook-12" and the PB-12" side-by-side, there is a HUGE difference in portability (even if there wasn't all that much of a difference in specs).
Actually, the 15" and 17" were both 1" thick, the 12" PB was 1.1" or 1.2" thick, while the iBook was 1.3" thick, so that "huge difference in portability" between 12" iBook and 12" PB was only 0.1" or maybe 0.2". Didn't seem like much before, either. ;)

And chances are, I wouldnt notice the weight difference between my 13" MB and a lighter 13" MacBook unless the significance was huge, and that would almost be impossible if the case was sturdy. They could make it cheap ass, but I'd rather they give me something good. If they made it carbon fibre, the cost would increase and they'd save like 0.4 lbs or something.

And besides, all internal components of the MBs and other WinPC laptops is going to be around the same, so unless Apple starts using lower capacity HDs, or smaller 1.8" HDs in laptops, or 10.4" (!!) screens, I don't think going from 13.3" to 12" makes a difference.

Piarco said:
Hence no 13.3" MBP. God knows I'd get one if it had a dedicated GPU. As it stands I'll have to move to a MBP unless the next major MB upgrade is Aperture compliant. Which unfortunately I doubt. :(
If it was aperture compliant, it would also need a higher resolution screen. And besides the technical requirements, in practical terms, the resolution of the MB isn't really high enough to use Aperture effectively.....not unless you use an external monitor. Imagine a 13" laptop with such a high resolution. The text would be painfully small.

On the other hand, Adobe Lightroom runs well, isn't slow, and actually handles RAW files better than Aperture. It also offers more editing functions. ;)