Aperture to Lightroom -- Week 1

[maflynn]

One of the factors in Lightroom's corner is that Adobe is committed to LR, and continues to improve it. Apple's track record is such that it does not fill me with any level of confidence.

I find LR to be a powerful tool that generally does not get in my way. The modal interface continues to bug me, but I'll get used to it

I don't use DNG, as I think its a bad idea, you're converting your RAW files into a proprietary format that is not supported universally, where as your RAW images are. Just my $.02. I know folks who are committed to DNG, and feel its a great option, and that's fine, but that's not for me.

 

[jms969]

One of the factors in Lightroom's corner is that Adobe is committed to LR, and continues to improve it. Apple's track record is such that it does not fill me with any level of confidence.

I find LR to be a powerful tool that generally does not get in my way. The modal interface continues to bug me, but I'll get used to it

I don't use DNG, as I think its a bad idea, you're converting your RAW files into a proprietary format that is not supported universally, where as your RAW images are. Just my $.02. I know folks who are committed to DNG, and feel its a great option, and that's fine, but that's not for me.

I am 100% onboard with your DNG feelings (although the DNG format was open sourced by Adobe ages ago)...

As far as the interface goes Aperture has the edge over LR. It will be interesting to see if LR 6 cleans up the interface or just works under the hood...

https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjo...os-support-for-next-version-of-lightroom.html

 

[skaeight]

I am 100% onboard with your DNG feelings (although the DNG format was open sourced by Adobe ages ago)...

As far as the interface goes Aperture has the edge over LR. It will be interesting to see if LR 6 cleans up the interface or just works under the hood...

https://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjo...os-support-for-next-version-of-lightroom.html

I was excited to see that blog entry from Adobe. I'm hoping that means that we'll get hypthreading, better use of multiple cores, and GPU acceleration. At minimum it means their modernizing their code to an extent, which is never a bad thing.

I recently purchased a Retina iMac and prior to that I was reading reports that LR performance was awful. I was really happy to find that that is not the case. However, I do see places it could be faster, so I'm hoping LR 6 is primarily about bringing performance up to part with Aperture.

Some interface updates would also be nice 😀

 

[jms969]

The funny thing in that statement is that Aperture is here today and works very well with Yosemite 😉

But when 10.11 ships the chances of Aperture working are a crap shoot.

IMHO it is prudent to move away from an unsupported product to a supported product as quickly as possible and to stop editing images that will inevitably have to be redone in the future...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

But when 10.11 ships they chances of it working are a crap shoot.



IMHO it is prudent to move away from an unsupported product to a supported product as quickly as possible and to stop editing images that will inevitably have to be redone in the future...

Amazing how you know that a version that doesn't exist won't support it. I've got a developers account and it works with the latest version just fine.

IMHO it is prudent to not jump the gun and get off to a false start. Plenty of time to switch to something else if the replacement product doesn't fulfil ones needs.

 

[skaeight]

Amazing how you know that a version that doesn't exist won't support it. I've got a developers account and it works with the latest version just fine.

IMHO it is prudent to not jump the gun and get off to a false start. Plenty of time to switch to something else if the replacement product doesn't fulfil ones needs.

I'm all for not taking drastic action too early. I know I've done this many many times and have been working to avoid doing this.

But this is a time when I do think it is wise to plan for the future and make the jump, now not later. If you used the advanced features of Aperture and really push the program with the adjustments you make, Photos is almost assuredly not going to be for you. Photos is more of an iPhotos replacement than an Aperture replacement (John Gruber said it was originally going to be called iPhotos X, but they changed their mind because of the negative baggage that iPhotos comes with).

It just doesn't make sense to continue to invest time into Aperture with additional edits that will be lost once you inevitably have to switch to another program. Cut your losses now and move on. You will have to do it at some point, might as well be now so you lose less work and have more time to learn the new program.

I just wouldn't put too much hope in Photos, it's not meant for enthusiasts / pros, and even if it is, who knows when it will come out. Why delay the inevitable longer than you need to?

 

[jms969]

Amazing how you know that a version that doesn't exist won't support it. I've got a developers account and it works with the latest version just fine.

I don't know, that is why I said Aperture may or may not run in the next version of OSX. Apple has publicly stated that there will be no further compatibility updates to Aperture after the Yosemite update.

IMHO it is prudent to not jump the gun and get off to a false start. Plenty of time to switch to something else if the replacement product doesn't fulfil ones needs.

I jumped more than two years ago when it became painfully obvious that Aperture was abandonware.

As far as Photos is concerned, I suspect that it will be a revamped iPhoto with some Aperture features. In all likelihood the app will be directed at people taking photos with their idevices and wanting to upload and share via iCloud.

I have north of 350GB of raw files that absolutely will not be anywhere but on a hard drive(s). I have no desire to try to utilize a consumer product for my DAM and editing needs 😉

If the past is any indication of Apple's intention with Photos just look at the disaster that is iWork. 😱

The longer you hang with a dead product the more time you have to spend converting to a supported one...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I'm all for not taking drastic action too early. I know I've done this many many times and have been working to avoid doing this.

But this is a time when I do think it is wise to plan for the future and make the jump, now not later. If you used the advanced features of Aperture and really push the program with the adjustments you make, Photos is almost assuredly not going to be for you. Photos is more of an iPhotos replacement than an Aperture replacement (John Gruber said it was originally going to be called iPhotos X, but they changed their mind because of the negative baggage that iPhotos comes with).

It just doesn't make sense to continue to invest time into Aperture with additional edits that will be lost once you inevitably have to switch to another program. Cut your losses now and move on. You will have to do it at some point, might as well be now so you lose less work and have more time to learn the new program.

I just wouldn't put too much hope in Photos, it's not meant for enthusiasts / pros, and even if it is, who knows when it will come out. Why delay the inevitable longer than you need to?

Because I read the signs differently. Over the years the editing capabilities of iPhoto have considerably improved. To such an extend that it has gotten really close to Aperture. Today Aperture still have the advantage with its DAM capabilities, and RAW handling (getting very close now) and plug-in architecture allowing for Google Nik etc...Even the library structure has been merged in the two products. I can see from a technical architecture point of view that it doesn't make financial sense to keep both products going.

Early indications of capabilities of Photos is exactly what a lot of people have always held against Aperture, i.e. the lack of good quality in-built lens correction and noise reduction. Whilst to me they aren't that important, they seem to many other...

Considering the considerably investment in the frameworks as part of Yosemite for fully integrated functionality, even more so than what it does today, I'm quite happy to wait and see before jumping ship. For me, the key thing is the DAM capability. If it is something stupid like cloud only, or the limited keyword system from iPhoto then it is adios...But until such moment, there is no real need to switch now...

PS. I have the full Adobe CC on subscription, it is not like I don't have the products anyway...For a DAM and its workflow I much prefer the slickness of Aperture opposed to the clunky PC alike way Lightroom does it...

 

[skaeight]

Because I read the signs differently. Over the years the editing capabilities of iPhoto have considerably improved. To such an extend that it has gotten really close to Aperture. Today Aperture still have the advantage with its DAM capabilities, and RAW handling (getting very close now) and plug-in architecture allowing for Google Nik etc...Even the library structure has been merged in the two products. I can see from a technical architecture point of view that it doesn't make financial sense to keep both products going.

Early indications of capabilities of Photos is exactly what a lot of people have always held against Aperture, i.e. the lack of good quality in-built lens correction and noise reduction. Whilst to me they aren't that important, they seem to many other...

Considering the considerably investment in the frameworks as part of Yosemite for fully integrated functionality, even more so than what it does today, I'm quite happy to wait and see before jumping ship. For me, the key thing is the DAM capability. If it is something stupid like cloud only, or the limited keyword system from iPhoto then it is adios...But until such moment, there is no real need to switch now...

PS. I have the full Adobe CC on subscription, it is not like I don't have the products anyway...For a DAM and its workflow I much prefer the slickness of Aperture opposed to the clunky PC alike way Lightroom does it...

Regarding the noise reduction and lens correction. This comes from a WWDC Core Image session:

https://thephotosexpert.com/tips/20...duction-os-x-mentions-iphoto-and#.VMUfcMZd6ZM

I've watched the session. First off, you're already using this version of the software. Aperture is using it and has a a new Noise Reduction slider in the RAW brick - this is what they're talking about. Without a doubt the noise reduction is better. But it is not near what Adobe Camera RAW offers (I also find it be slow - even on my RiMac).

Regarding lens correction, watch the presentation, it's a tick box, not a full lens correction profile. It basically will honor any attributes that the camera manufacturer adds to their RAW files. For me that does me no good because Sony doesn't do this (which is actually why I started looking around at things other than Aperture, when I imported my first images from my NEX-5T I was wondering why straight lines were curved, up until that point I didn't even realize how important lens correction was).

As far as I can tell Aperture has always done this in the background, if your camera writes meta data properly, Aperture will honor it. If not, you're going to be using PTlens on TIFFs (PTLens has said they'll support Photos in the future).

I'm putting this out there primarily because I want to save people time and heartache. Don't wait for Photos if you want these features. Get Lightroom, these features are actually there now and they work exceptionally well. If these features don't work well for you in Aperture, you will be disappointed with Photos because the underlying architecture that Photos will run on (Core Image RAW processing) is already in place. The presentation states that iPhoto, Aperture, and Photos all use the same system.


I guess I'll summarize it this way. If you're happy with iPhoto and are just looking for integration with you iOS devices, you're going to love Photos. If you are a power user of Aperture and are looking for better noise reduction and lens correction, get Light Room (or Camera One, or DxO). I have no arguments with you on the interface and DAM integration of Aperture vs Lightroom. That was weighed into my decision on switching. I almost decided to stay with Aperture primarily for those reasons, but in the end I decided I need to move away from a dead product and on to one with a strong future and one that will support my photography no matter where it goes in the future (I don't ever want to have to make a move like this again).

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I'll take a look at that session. I knew Aperture was addressing it when it was included in the lens metadata. I can't say I have a use for it myself as I tend to avoid lenses that require such correction or avoid angles that may provide a need. But we are not all the same.

Likewise with noise reduction, for me it is rare that I need it as a good exposure will negate it anyway. On those rare occasions that I did require it, I found that dFine was much better than any of the inbuilt systems. When I had my D70 and was beginning I did require it a lot more and was using noise ninja at the time.

I'll check out the ins/outs, I was in the understanding it was a bit more than just a tick box.

 

[jms969]

Excellent discussion!!!

 

[skaeight]

Excellent discussion!!!

Like I said, I'm happy to contribute to help others avoid investing the ridiculous amount of time I've put into this over the past month. Hopefully others will benefit.

 

[jms969]

Like I said, I'm happy to contribute to help others avoid investing the ridiculous amount of time I've put into this over the past month. Hopefully others will benefit.

I started the transition two years ago, obviously did not have to reedit all of my images (they exports were fine) but I did spend a huge amount of time reediting the photos that would need to be further manipulated, etc...

Everything finally made it into LR, I removed both Aperture and iPhoto from my Macs (I always avoided iPhoto like the plague) and I haven't looked back.

At this stage if were to introduce an absolute killer app I would not switch back. 's track record with pro apps is nothing to be proud of 😕

 

[skaeight]

I started the transition two years ago, obviously did not have to reedit all of my images (they exports were fine) but I did spend a huge amount of time reediting the photos that would need to be further manipulated, etc...

Everything finally made it into LR, I removed both Aperture and iPhoto from my Macs (I always avoided iPhoto like the plague) and I haven't looked back.

At this stage if were to introduce an absolute killer app I would not switch back. 's track record with pro apps is nothing to be proud of 😕

The only thing that is getting me is not having quick access to iCloud sharing. It has become so easy to share photos out this way because just about everyone I know has an iPhone and they don't have to install another app or setup an account.

I've been exporting the images and then importing them to Aperture. I may just have to look at an alternate way to share photos down the road, but one thing I would like to get out of Photos is possibly a system level iCloud sharing extension (this exists on iOS, so maybe it will with Photos on Yosemite). It would also be great if maybe LR eventually adds support for this hen I could bypass the manual export.

Nothing is perfect I guess, I can live with this as the one major negative of making the switch.

Would anybody by any chance have any ideas on how to do this better?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Considering that after all those years Lightroom still hasn't got integration with the apple media browser I doubt that it will come anytime soon.

It is a shame as I hate having duplicates of files and the media browser integration is brilliant.

 

[robgendreau]

Considering that after all those years Lightroom still hasn't got integration with the apple media browser I doubt that it will come anytime soon.

It is a shame as I hate having duplicates of files and the media browser integration is brilliant.

I wonder if any non-Apple applications can access photos in Aperture/iPhoto using Apple's media browser. Most I've seen use Karelia's iMedia Browser framework (Fotomagico, HoudahGeo, MacJournal, etc etc). The latest framework allows access to BOTH Aperture/iPhoto libraries AND LR catalogs. Comic Life 3 uses an older version of that framework that doesn't allow access to LR 5. I'm unsure what Pixelmator uses, but it doesn't give access to LR catalogs; Apple has the MediaLibrary.framework, but I'm not sure why more don't use it; maybe sandboxing issues?

Another way to look at the integration you speak of is as a detriment, not a benefit. I use mostly non-Apple applications, and it was very annoying that they couldn't access photos in a managed iPhoto/Aperture library. So then I referenced the photos, but then it occurred to me that I might was well use a non-Apple DAM since Aperture wasn't making it any easier to find photos. And then I found the applications that could access LR catalogs and it was what prompted me to switch. In addition, LR makes it easier than Aperture to access my hierarchies of keywords in the Finder, via Spotlight, and in other applications, again giving me less reason to use it.

What I hope for is that at the OS level more attention is given to finding, manipulating, and dealing with images. I just don't see why the Finder is so lame at finding photos and organizing them; why should we even need a DAM for this? Photo metadata has been standardized forever, and rating, culling, captioning, keywording, etc etc could all be done without a specialized application; remove the whole organizational thing to the OS and then just have editing/adjusting applications.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

So finder utilises the media browser. You've got access to the full apertures library with all its key wording, versions, projects, albums etc without the need to open aperture or create an export from that raw file. It is also available through any open file dialog. But yes not through a save dialog. If you want to edit and have it integrate with the version management system you need to do that from within aperture and edit with an external app.

 

[colorspace]

I'd love to have some longing for iCloud and better integration... but that fruit died and shriveled up long ago with Apple's endless F%^&%&ng around with it. Policies change, reliability and security get no better. I'm done and have been for quite a while. Additionally I don't think iCloud offers people shooting RAW (and possibly a bit more seriously) any benefit.

The only thing that is getting me is not having quick access to iCloud sharing. It has become so easy to share photos out this way because just about everyone I know has an iPhone and they don't have to install another app or setup an account.

I've been exporting the images and then importing them to Aperture. I may just have to look at an alternate way to share photos down the road, but one thing I would like to get out of Photos is possibly a system level iCloud sharing extension (this exists on iOS, so maybe it will with Photos on Yosemite). It would also be great if maybe LR eventually adds support for this hen I could bypass the manual export.

Nothing is perfect I guess, I can live with this as the one major negative of making the switch.

Would anybody by any chance have any ideas on how to do this better?

 

[colorspace]

Can you speak a bit more about the DNG portion of this. So far in my LR experiments I have resisted converting anything to DNG. I know there are some possible "pros" including no need for sidecar files, right?

..but while I understand it is not a proprietary file format (even though created by Adobe), the whole thing seems to have a "JPEG2000" feel to it, if you know what I mean -- introduced way back in 2004 and adoptions to me seems sparse at best.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I'm not in the mood of painting myself into another corner. Would love to hear about your logic on this.

THX

Really? I find it fantastically simple.

Matter of fact, you're all welcome to observe my workflow step by step below. 😛 😀

• Import as DNG (if you're funny about that, you're wrong).
• Crop if required.
• Adjust exposure by one (shift + arrow key) either way if required.
• Adjust contrast (shift + arrow key) by one or two.
• Bump highlights (shift + arrow key) by one or two.
• Bump or dump shadows (shift + arrow key) by one or two.
• Bump whites (shift + arrow key) by one or five.
• Dump blacks (shift + arrow key) by one or two.
• Bump clarity (shift + arrow key) one or five times for everything but portraits. Except for clothes. But use brush tool or gradient mesh.
• Bump vibrance (shift + arrow key) by one or two.
• Dump saturation (shift + arrow key) by one or two.
• Export to photoshop as TIFF.
• Run self made frequency separation action.
• Clone tool out things, use pen tool, make paths, make selections, use patch tool, use healing tool, use spot healing tool.
• Dodge and burn and dodge and burn and dodge and burn and dodge and burn and dodge and burn and dodge and burn and dodge and burn and dodge and burn.
• Muck around with levels and curves adjustment layers.
• Close and save.
• Back in Lightroom apply presets or not.
• More than likely apply a vignette (lol jokes…probably).
• Sharpen.
• Export.


You're welcome. 😎

 

[robgendreau]

So finder utilises the media browser. You've got access to the full apertures library with all its key wording, versions, projects, albums etc without the need to open aperture or create an export from that raw file. It is also available through any open file dialog. But yes not through a save dialog. If you want to edit and have it integrate with the version management system you need to do that from within aperture and edit with an external app.

It only utilizes Apple's media browser library when in dialogs, not in an open window in the Finder. Seems like it should. I use an Automator workflow, which I saved as an application. It opens the Apple media browser and then I can select a photo and open in my default viewer, or drag somewhere. What I'd like is for the photo libraries to be accessible and searchable right in a regular Finder window and integrated into it, so you could sort by albums, or lens, or whatever. Since Spotlight indexes that info, I don't see why I can't arrange by that info (you can search though).

 

[lcseds]

For a product Apple has given almost zero information on (Photos), a great deal of you folks are drawing all sorts of conclusions. If they release it and it's a joke, good for Adobe. But don't assume just because Photos may be a hybrid of iPhoto and Aperture that it is something to be dismissed. It may surprise.

 

[jms969]

For a product Apple has given almost zero information on (Photos), a great deal of you folks are drawing all sorts of conclusions. If they release it and it's a joke, good for Adobe. But don't assume just because Photos may be a hybrid of iPhoto and Aperture that it is something to be dismissed. It may surprise.

More than likely a surprise similar to iWork 😉

 

[robgendreau]

More than likely a surprise similar to iWork 😉

As he said, maybe.... Meanwhile, a fair and reasonable conclusion to draw is that there are good shipping photo organizers out there now, that developers are committed to improving and updating for their customers. And that Apple has no non-deprecated photo software, just maybe-ware. Sheesh, Windows 10 may have a better photo organizer. The point is why speculate at all? Just get something that works now.

 

[jms969]

As he said, maybe.... Meanwhile, a fair and reasonable conclusion to draw is that there are good shipping photo organizers out there now, that developers are committed to improving and updating for their customers. And that Apple has no non-deprecated photo software, just maybe-ware. Sheesh, Windows 10 may have a better photo organizer. The point is why speculate at all? Just get something that works now.

I did, two years ago I switched to LR when it was clear Aperture was abandonware... I am not speculating at all, I really don't care what does, they have lost the pro and semipro market forever.

Even if were to come out with a killer app I would not switch back 🙂

 

[colorspace]

For a product Apple has given almost zero information on (Photos), a great deal of you folks are drawing all sorts of conclusions. If they release it and it's a joke, good for Adobe. But don't assume just because Photos may be a hybrid of iPhoto and Aperture that it is something to be dismissed. It may surprise.

In the end it may surprise... and if it does it'll be even more of a tragic comedy for Apple. First they scare away their potential market by announcing the killing off of a dog-eared but still viable professional app, while as you point out they have given zero-information on it's replacement. Pros or even serious enthusiasts won't accept that level of uncertainty, much less so pull another 180 back to Apple, after this same company for all intents an purposes pushed them out of the house.

As an analogous hypothetical -- lets say that Sony owned both the Wii and Playstation systems and they announced that while each is still largely successful that they were canceling both product lines and were planning on introducing single replacement for both in the future.

Beta of new product? Demo of new product? Internal/external testers for new product? -- no, no and no.

Is there a hard release date from Sony for their new console? not so much. Is release expected in a few weeks, a couple of months? No way, 6 months after their cancelation, no one has seen or played with the new console.

People are curious if the new console will be more similar to the Wii -- light and friendly or more of a power gamers console -- cue crickets.

Sony all but pushes user to buy Xbox consoles for their new games.

When finally introduced -- after maybe a solid year of silence - Sony's new console is actually pretty good, but probably certainly nowhere near good enough to entice the 100 of thousands of serious gamers that had to move grudgingly and resentfully to Xbox.

When you are a serious doing anything on a computer -- photographer, musician, writer, videographer, or software developer, the software that you get in bed with becomes part of a relationship. If your partner goes out for a pack of cigarettes and is still nowhere to be found after 6 months, the relationship is dead, or at the very least should be!