APFS and volumes

[sparkie7]

A couple of questions. I have set up in Disk Utility 4 volumes (including start up) with reserves for 250GB each. I have been told volumes are better than setting up partitions. I want to back up / clone (via CCC) these 4 volumes onto a similarly volumed external T7 1TB SSD.

By setting each volume with 250GB "reserves" on the Mac Studio internal, is this going to cause any issues.

Currently these are just plain APFS. Is it possible to later change them to APFS "encrypted"? Also, how do these (encrypted) differ to Filevault, as this is encryption as well? Is it overkill to have both turned "on"? Or do they work/operate differently/at a different level

When I carbon copy clone the start up volume onto my Samsung T7 external SSD, will this boot up ok, if I select it as an "option key" boot volume?

Any advice/info appreciated

 

[ixxx69]

I have been told volumes are better than setting up partitions.

They generally are in almost all cases. They can dynamically resize as space is needed. Apple recommends using volumes instead of partitions.

By setting each volume with 250GB "reserves" on the Mac Studio internal, is this going to cause any issues.

Technically, no. But now you have the equivalent of 4 individual drives, which may be a management headache. Creating additional volumes are primarily beneficial for installing other versions of macOS (or other OS's) on the same drive.

Currently not these are just plain APFS. Is it possible to later change them to APFS "encrypted"? Also, how do these (encrypted) differ to Filevault, as this is encryption as well? Is it overkill to have both turned "on"? Or do they work/operate differently/at a different level

Yes, you can turn APFS encryption on and off.

Filevault & APFS encryption work very similarly. Most users will want to enable FV2. If you want to lock down things even further with APFS encryption, you'll have to enter an additional password to unlock each individual volume.

The additional security is way overkill for most folks. However, if other users are sharing your Mac, there may be use cases for it.

When I carbon copy clone the start up volume onto my Samsung T7 external SSD, will this boot up ok, if I select it as an "option key" boot volume?

Yes, but you need to follow the detailed instructions for CCC - see their website. The basic concept is you first clone your boot volume with no encryption at all on the backup drive, then you boot into your backup and enable encryption, and then CCC can backup as normal.

Any advice/info appreciated

May I ask why you want to do this? There are some usage scenarios where this makes sense, but 9 out of 10 times, users asking about this on MacRumors are just making things way more complicated for themselves for no benefit.

 

[ColdCase]

I think I saw in CCC's help files a pretty good description of why cloning of your boot volume to an external drive with the intent of booting from it is not practical or useful. If I recall correctly, the M1's will only boot from internal storage. There are alternate recovery strategies discussed.

 

[Realityck]

A couple of questions. I have set up in Disk Utility 4 volumes (including start up) with reserves for 250GB each. I have been told volumes are better than setting up partitions. I want to back up / clone (via CCC) these 4 volumes onto a similarly volumed external T7 1TB SSD.

By setting each volume with 250GB "reserves" on the Mac Studio internal, is this going to cause any issues.

Currently not these are just plain APFS. Is it possible to later change them to APFS "encrypted"? Also, how do these (encrypted) differ to Filevault, as this is encryption as well? Is it overkill to have both turned "on"? Or do they work/operate differently/at a different level

When I carbon copy clone the start up volume onto my Samsung T7 external SSD, will this boot up ok, if I select it as an "option key" boot volume?

Any advice/info appreciated

In order to create a bootable startup volume using CCC 6.1.3, I continue to wipe a backup snapshot (erase volume set) via disk utility and run CCC legacy backup copy for each OS Ventura beta increment currently. You can see the procedure in the CCC thread third post I authored. Back aways in Big Safari Apple broke the APFS utility that allowed incremental system volume snapshots.

I gotten use to wiping the target each time I do an another snapshot. I don't see any issues with using that for some things as well as using it as a ASR volume for Migration Assistant.

 

[Realityck]

I think I saw in CCC's help files a pretty good description of why cloning of your boot volume to an external drive with the intent of booting from it is not practical or useful. If I recall correctly, the M1's will only boot from internal storage. There are alternate recovery strategies discussed.

No you can boot from external storage with Monterey and Ventura latest beta. The CCC legacy clone copy created a limited time snapshot where the system volume is not upgradable like the data volume is. These latest MacOS use your admin permission once to verify the USB-C connected device is allowed.

 

[sparkie7]

Technically, no. But now you have the equivalent of 4 individual drives, which may be a management headache. Creating additional volumes are primarily beneficial for installing other versions of macOS (or other OS's) on the same drive.

Yes, I want to back up the main boot drive on an external SSD, as well as on one of the three volumes on the internal Mac Studio SSD. Is it better to just leave the volumes Without reserve size limits? (in which case I just delete the volumes 2-4, and create new ones without limits, could not find a way to reset the reserve limit with current volumes). Will CCC clone all these dynamic volumes on the fly each time one backs up?

Yes, you can turn APFS encryption on and off.

Filevault & APFS encryption work very similarly. Most users will want to enable FV2. If you want to lock down things even further with APFS encryption, you'll have to enter an additional password to unlock each individual volume.

The additional security is way overkill for most folks. However, if other users are sharing your Mac, there may be use cases for it.

Ok thanks. Will it slow things down having to decrypt "twice" so to speak if you have both turned on, or is it only a password type protection rather than encryption/decryption of all data?

Yes, but you need to follow the detailed instructions for CCC - see their website. The basic concept is you first clone your boot volume with no encryption at all on the backup drive, then you boot into your backup and enable encryption, and then CCC can backup as normal.

Does that mean you have to turn off FileVault first?

May I ask why you want to do this? There are some usage scenarios where this makes sense, but 9 out of 10 times, users asking about this on MacRumors are just making things way more complicated for themselves for no benefit.

As above, I want to clone the main boot drive with all the applications setup. Just wasn't sure if CCC would clone the dynamic volumes properly

 

[sparkie7]

I think I saw in CCC's help files a pretty good description of why cloning of your boot volume to an external drive with the intent of booting from it is not practical or useful. If I recall correctly, the M1's will only boot from internal storage. There are alternate recovery strategies discussed.

If that's true, that's very restrictive?

 

[sparkie7]

In order to create a bootable startup volume using CCC 6.1.3, I continue to wipe a backup snapshot (erase volume set) via disk utility and run CCC legacy backup copy for each OS Ventura beta increment currently. You can see the procedure in the CCC thread third post I authored. Back aways in Big Safari Apple broke the APFS utility that allowed incremental system volume snapshots.

I gotten use to wiping the target each time I do an another snapshot. I don't see any issues with using that for some things as well as using it as a ASR volume for Migration Assistant.

This is a little over my head.

I just normally select one volume and target volume in CCC and back it up

 

[sparkie7]

No you can boot from external storage with Monterey and Ventura latest beta. The CCC legacy clone copy created a limited time snapshot where the system volume is not upgradable like the data volume is. These latest MacOS use your admin permission one to verify its allowed.

So, it's possibly to use CCC to clone your Mac Studio internal startup volume onto an external SSD and boot off this external one?

Presumably I need to use Disk Utility and wipe the factory Samsung T7 using APFS (without encryption) first, then setting up the other 3 volumes?

 

[Realityck]

So, it's possibly to use CCC to clone your Mac Studio internal startup volume onto an external SSD and boot off this external one?

Presumably I need to use Disk Utility and wipe the factory Samsung T7 using APFS (without encryption) first, then setting up the other 3 volumes?

yes, as long as you recognize that Apple broke incremental system volume cloning, but a limit time snapshot works. I still don't understand or see the need of a 1TB internal SSD to be divided into multiple volumes? Your SSD is also being used to support the GPU graphics and your memory swap when you run out of RAM. This is how the CCC snapshot works:

The 4 step backup process is System volume is copied first, then the Preboot, then Recovery, then the Data volume. That is how the legacy bootable copy works when doing a APFS replication with CCC.

 

[ColdCase]

Just saying that, now days, creating an Apple Silicon compatible external Monterey and later bootable disk (using their legacy bootable assistant) is not for novice users (like perhaps the OP). It's also not likely able to serve as a reliable troubleshooting device, but can be done somewhat at this time.


CCC has a knowledge base article which basically says:

In the past, a "bootable backup" was an indispensable troubleshooting device in case the startup disk failed. But Apple Silicon Macs, like the studio, will not boot at all if the internal storage fails. An external bootable device will not serve as a rescue disk for that scenario.

They do not recommend that you attempt to make your M1 backups bootable. Apple provides restore utilities for the OS and a "Standard Backup" can then be used to restore all documents, compatible applications, and settings from a standard CCC backup without the extra effort involved in establishing and maintaining a bootable device.

 

[sparkie7]

yes, as long as you recognize that Apple broke incremental system volume cloning, but a limit time snapshot works.

Does it matter if Apple "broke incremental system volume cloning"? I mean, I just manually clone and back up my system, wouldn't it copy everything I want at each point in time?

I still don't understand or see the need of a 1TB internal SSD to be divided into multiple volumes?

As previously mentioned I want to clone a back up copy on one of the volumes on my Mac Studio internal SSD in case the main system/boot volume gets corrupted

Also, I tend to have all my Work documents on a separate volume rather than on the main volume > Documents.

And then point to another volume if required for a Photoshop scratch disk

 

[sparkie7]

CCC has a knowledge base article which basically says:

In the past, a "bootable backup" was an indispensable troubleshooting device in case the startup disk failed. But Apple Silicon Macs, like the studio, will not boot at all if the internal storage fails. An external bootable device will not serve as a rescue disk for that scenario.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Users like myself want to be able to clone their system and be up and running again, whether on the same disk or another one. Most of the time it's to replace a system that's been corrupted in some way rather than a failed internal drive

 

[ColdCase]

It is unfortunate that currently you are not going to be able to use that old method with much confidence on the system folder on apple silicon. You could get lucky, however. The devil is in the details of signed software, encrypted parameters, the capability of apple's built in utilities, malware and corruption protection, security ..... Bombich's knowledge base articles goes into some detail.

 

[ixxx69]

As previously mentioned I want to clone a back up copy on one of the volumes on my Mac Studio internal SSD in case the main system/boot volume gets corrupted

Also, I tend to have all my Work documents on a separate volume rather than on the main volume > Documents.

And then point to another volume if required for a Photoshop scratch disk

If you want to have a backup, you generally want it to be on an external drive. If there's problems with either the SSD or M1 chip, you lose all the data on the SSD. Even if you're just concerned about data corruption, the corruption could very well affect all the volumes, not just your primary boot volume.

In the old days, setting up a scratch disk on a separate drive allowed photoshop to perform read/writes to the scratch disk simultaneously with the OS disk. Simply putting the PS scratch disk on a separate volume of the same SSD seems pointless.

I think you're just setting yourself up for unnecessary complications. But do whatever works for you, it's your computer.