They sell the data and that's how they make revenue. I'm not sure then what the other companies do with that data but they need it. For research purposes or whatever.
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App Developers Claim Apple's iOS 13 Location Tracking Changes Are Anti-Competitive
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These changes may raise eyebrows, but I think they’re definitely warranted. In my own experience, since installing iOS 13, I’ve revoked “Allow Always” tracking privileges from at least a dozen apps that totally shouldn’t have had it. The new feature actually shows you where/how often your location was reported to the app developer, and seeing this has been genuinely surprising (and just a little scary). Of course, it's my own fault; nothing nefarious has transpired on my device, and I’m sure I absentmindedly allowed these apps to track me. That said, I’m now very supportive of this new permission requesting scheme which allows the user to be more informed, and requires them to be much more deliberate about the fact that they’re granting an app developer permission to track them at all times.
As an app developer, I’ll also say that for the vast majority of legitimate location-tracking needs, the “Allow Always” privilege is very seldom actually necessary. You can do a whole lot in your app without god-mode location-tracking. Since this is the case, as a user, you should not grant privileges beyond “Allow While Using the App” permission unless 1) the developer is trustworthy, 2) the developer has been crystal-clear about why some functionality can’t work without it, and 3) that functionality had better be worth the potential loss of your privacy.
As an app developer, I’ll also say that for the vast majority of legitimate location-tracking needs, the “Allow Always” privilege is very seldom actually necessary. You can do a whole lot in your app without god-mode location-tracking. Since this is the case, as a user, you should not grant privileges beyond “Allow While Using the App” permission unless 1) the developer is trustworthy, 2) the developer has been crystal-clear about why some functionality can’t work without it, and 3) that functionality had better be worth the potential loss of your privacy.
iOS has included a built-in way to accomplish this via "Find My Friends" since iOS 8 or thereabouts. It also has the likely advantage of being much less draining on the person's phone battery.
Please.
I have an aunt with several medical conditions. We have her iPhone and Apple Watch set up to give her medication reminders, to allow her family to track her location along with specific restrictions so she can't accidentally change any settings. The amount of work it took to get this ready and make it foolproof was substantial compared to flipping a switch on a setting for location.
You're going to have to try a lot harder to find any scenario where this is somehow an inconvenience for users.
Edited: How can you make the claim that most Apps don't track users for nefarious purposes? Further, do you know if only the App gets the information or if they're making it available to third parties for analysis? Or worse yet, maybe they use someone else's SDK for location and have no idea where the information is going to (besides themselves)?
settings -> privacy -> app -> always allow. done. yep, pretty easy to me.
I love this change. I also like that I can manually add ‘always’ where I choose. Perfect! Kudos, Apple.
Stop crying you babies. You've proven to be irresponsible with user data in the past when you've had it.
I applaud Apple for making the change.
Apple should always try to Raise the Educational Bar (as much as possible) & make its Users as aware (as much as possible).
Apple should always try to Raise the Educational Bar (as much as possible) & make its Users as aware (as much as possible).
Not sure why you would install a third-party app for that particular purpose when Find My does the same thing and potentially more accurately with the new offline tracking feature.
I'm not assuming apps are only using tracking for nefarious purposes, but someone who has Alzheimers or someone who doesn't fully understand what "Always Allow" does should not be able to download a third-party app and just enable permanent tracking without a clear picture of how it works.
These app developers are arguing for that exact scenario. They seem to be saying Always Allow should be an option because some people who download their apps may not be familiar enough with their iPhones to get to the Settings app to enable Always Allow. Those are the people Apple is better protecting with these changes.
nobody needs to track anyone's ass 24/7.
If an app only has "Always" as a choice, I delete it.
If an app only has "Always" as a choice, I delete it.
I think what some are missing here as that these same rules (according to the developers) don't apply to Apple's own apps. Once again it becomes apple playing the "our platform our apps come first", but spin it as "user privacy".
These developers missed something though. Yes, the first prompt a user get doesn't include always allow; However, if the user proves interest in the app by using it a few times, if the app makes a request to the OS to use location in the background, the OS will pop up a new prompt saying "[App Name] has asked to track you while not running. Would you like to allow background location services?" and then you can click always allow, without needing to enter Settings.
Oh, the nerve! Maybe I'll pay for the good apps (I do.) Next time a guitar tuner, etc. asks to track location, I'll know what a D-bag the developer is.
It's pretty disheartening to see how ignorant and uninformed so many people are. They rail against "Big Brother" or whomever they think cares enough about their tiny lives to take their data, including location and do something nefarious with it. So they applaud Apple for making it harder for applications to use location data, despite the fact this can make it problematic for some apps to work correctly. They will then bitch and moan when said app doesn't work right. Yet all along Apple still has ALL THE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING ON YOUR iDEVICE INCLUDING YOUR LOCATION! It ins't about privacy, in this day and age privacy is an illusion unless you live 100% off the grid. This is about Apple having all the info and not sharing it with the developers of apps who are providing value to these devices by building apps for them and then not allowing them the resources they need to make it work.
I know many will say then don't have our app on iDevices, but it is not that simple when some of these apps are required by business and there are other factors at work.
I hate Apple. their business practices are predatory and this is just one more example. Their greed and arrogance know no bounds and they don't even innovate anymore.
"Please oh please Apple TELL me how to properly use my device because I am too stupid to know the right and wrong way on my own. I am afraid to think for myself!" - Apple Lemming
I know many will say then don't have our app on iDevices, but it is not that simple when some of these apps are required by business and there are other factors at work.
I hate Apple. their business practices are predatory and this is just one more example. Their greed and arrogance know no bounds and they don't even innovate anymore.
"Please oh please Apple TELL me how to properly use my device because I am too stupid to know the right and wrong way on my own. I am afraid to think for myself!" - Apple Lemming
Thanks for this list of apps for me to never download or use
I’m sorry. I thought Apple made convenience priority for the USER, not the developer. Big developers abused it and now you pay the price. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's "anti-competitive".....only if the user data is your actual product, rather than the app you are offering!
Kudo's to Apple and screw these lowlifes. I'm noting that list and making sure I dont ever use any app from those sleazeballs...
Kudo's to Apple and screw these lowlifes. I'm noting that list and making sure I dont ever use any app from those sleazeballs...
I'm working on an updated version of my app, a paid weather app, and wound up redesigning the new-user flow for this feature. It’s not that big a deal.
Previously, the app used only the device location. This proved a little controversial, even though we designed the backend such that it's impossible for us to engage in any sketchy behavior, even if we wanted to (which we don't; we're a paid app, we got our revenue already). We got some feedback requesting that we allow the app to work without that, so we took this release as an opportunity to rework the underpinnings of the app and allow users to select a custom location. It's not as easy as you'd think, particularly implementing city search.
(We could have used Google for city search, but we take issue with allowing too much third-party code in the app and certainly anything involving Google. We’ve been migrating the app off of Firebase and it’s been hell.)
Now, for new users setting up the app or when folks update to the new version, they'll see a prompt asking whether they'd like to use their device location or select a location to use. If they choose the latter, they're never asked for Location Services permission, and if they choose the former they're asked for "when in use" authorization.
Then, if the user wants to enable notifications and chose to use their device location, we require Always access and communicate that specifically to the user before prompting for Always access and notifications permission. If they chose to select a location and want notifications, it's still not necessary to enable Location Services at all; they're prompted for notifications permission and that's the end of it.
This compares to our previous flow which prompted for notifications authorization and then Always location access. It's objectively better for privacy for users who may not feel comfortable giving us Always access, even though we're not doing anything fishy and don't wish to.
Yes, it required substantial effort on our part to update our app for this change, but we did it while also implementing a feature that our users had been asking for. That's what betas are for — you get about 3 months to get your act together before the next iOS release ships. Use ’em.
Previously, the app used only the device location. This proved a little controversial, even though we designed the backend such that it's impossible for us to engage in any sketchy behavior, even if we wanted to (which we don't; we're a paid app, we got our revenue already). We got some feedback requesting that we allow the app to work without that, so we took this release as an opportunity to rework the underpinnings of the app and allow users to select a custom location. It's not as easy as you'd think, particularly implementing city search.
(We could have used Google for city search, but we take issue with allowing too much third-party code in the app and certainly anything involving Google. We’ve been migrating the app off of Firebase and it’s been hell.)
Now, for new users setting up the app or when folks update to the new version, they'll see a prompt asking whether they'd like to use their device location or select a location to use. If they choose the latter, they're never asked for Location Services permission, and if they choose the former they're asked for "when in use" authorization.
Then, if the user wants to enable notifications and chose to use their device location, we require Always access and communicate that specifically to the user before prompting for Always access and notifications permission. If they chose to select a location and want notifications, it's still not necessary to enable Location Services at all; they're prompted for notifications permission and that's the end of it.
This compares to our previous flow which prompted for notifications authorization and then Always location access. It's objectively better for privacy for users who may not feel comfortable giving us Always access, even though we're not doing anything fishy and don't wish to.
Yes, it required substantial effort on our part to update our app for this change, but we did it while also implementing a feature that our users had been asking for. That's what betas are for — you get about 3 months to get your act together before the next iOS release ships. Use ’em.
This is overtly hostile to users. I now know which products not to buy.
And to the companies complaining, blame Facebook, blame Uber, blame all the other spyware apps which secretly tracked users. The WSJ ran an article on these apps, from places like the Weather Channel, and they all stopped. Clearly they knew it was disgusting.
And speaking of disgusting, why do I single out Uber and Facebook?
Uber built their apps so these spying functions were turned off in Apple locations so they could avoid detection. Disgusting.
Facebook? Do you really need me to explain? Zuck and Cheryl Sandburg are a total disgrace. They are the tobacco CEOs of this century. Knowing one thing, acting evil, then act like dumb idiots when caught with promises to stop being naughty. Smoking causes cancer? Who knew? Elections are getting manipulated? Who knew? A weed growing out of the ground is bad for you? Who knew? Hate groups use our platform to coordinate violent acts? Who knew?
And just like the tobacco companies promised over and over again to stop selling tobacco to children—again, who knew?—Sheryl and Zuck keep promising to stop spying.
Anyway, back to the companies complaining to Apple, I hope they realize this is brand destroying for them and bad for their business. And I hope Apple stands their ground. We suffer crappy keyboards, terrible design tradeoffs so everything can be thinner and pretty in product hero shots, ignoring the core base for years, et al., because Apple respects our privacy. Don’t blow it, especially for a bunch of mediocre app developers.
And to the companies complaining, blame Facebook, blame Uber, blame all the other spyware apps which secretly tracked users. The WSJ ran an article on these apps, from places like the Weather Channel, and they all stopped. Clearly they knew it was disgusting.
And speaking of disgusting, why do I single out Uber and Facebook?
Uber built their apps so these spying functions were turned off in Apple locations so they could avoid detection. Disgusting.
Facebook? Do you really need me to explain? Zuck and Cheryl Sandburg are a total disgrace. They are the tobacco CEOs of this century. Knowing one thing, acting evil, then act like dumb idiots when caught with promises to stop being naughty. Smoking causes cancer? Who knew? Elections are getting manipulated? Who knew? A weed growing out of the ground is bad for you? Who knew? Hate groups use our platform to coordinate violent acts? Who knew?
And just like the tobacco companies promised over and over again to stop selling tobacco to children—again, who knew?—Sheryl and Zuck keep promising to stop spying.
Anyway, back to the companies complaining to Apple, I hope they realize this is brand destroying for them and bad for their business. And I hope Apple stands their ground. We suffer crappy keyboards, terrible design tradeoffs so everything can be thinner and pretty in product hero shots, ignoring the core base for years, et al., because Apple respects our privacy. Don’t blow it, especially for a bunch of mediocre app developers.
It's literally a one-time trip to the settings app. Not exactly rocket science …
So, just why are you reading and posting in an Apple forum again?
I have yet to see a single news account of the person being harmed by app tracking him/her. I am sure there might have been some cases but still. It's such an insignificant issue that I'd rather companies opt for convenience over forced security.
As a parent who uses Life360 this is one of main attributes. No trickery. Apples changes make this far more inconvenient.
What's the complaint? That Apple won't allow apps to have the option to let users more conveniently always use your location? I can still go in to my privacy settings and change that. As someone who denies the use of my location for all apps except navigation based apps I could care less. What a joke.