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DipDog3

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2002
1,190
691
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_0 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7A341 Safari/528.16)

I guess running an App Store is more trouble than Apple thought.
 

THX1139

macrumors 68000
Mar 4, 2006
1,928
0
This is easy to solve. Allow anyone to put the name on hold, but the person or company that actually delivers the binaries gets to use it.

This reminds me of the domain squatting crap on the internet. Anyone should be allowed to register a name, but if you aren't using it, someone else should be allowed to take it over. For example, the name of my business is currently registered to someone else but the person is not using it for anything. I should be able to request the use of the name and have it released to me if the other party doesn't have a website. I keep waiting for it to come on the market, but he keeps renewing it. When I go to the domain, I get a server not found message. And google turns up nothing when I search for the name.
 

edoates

macrumors 6502
May 22, 2006
299
6
what's the big deal about choosing another app name or just grabbing the name when you first start the project?

+10 for wisdom. What sort of product planners (even if it's just an individual) would devote a bunch of time and resources without securing the name? If they haven't thought that part their product out, maybe the rest is not well thought out, either.

Apple's policy is a good one: secure the name and show intent by filling out the forms with your app name thus reserving. Without such a reservation system, you could be aced out at any time: not even by a squatter, but by a quicker developer.

If they wanted to "fix" the permanent squat, then Apple could make each app name reservation renewable for a single one year extension. After that, if there is no product, the name is removed from the reservation list and is up for grabs.
 

MacFly123

macrumors 68020
Dec 25, 2006
2,340
0
what's the big deal about choosing another app name or just grabbing the name when you first start the project?

Do you know anything about BRANDING? There are BIG developers with BIG titles in the App Store, you want them to just change the name of products that already exist? :rolleyes: That would be a mass of confusion!

Ladies and gentlemen, "ROCK BAND" is now on the iPhone... But, uh, wait, it is called "music group" instead because the name "Rock Band" was already taken lol! :rolleyes:
 

edoates

macrumors 6502
May 22, 2006
299
6
This is easy to solve. Allow anyone to put the name on hold, but the person or company that actually delivers the binaries gets to use it.

This reminds me of the domain squatting crap on the internet. Anyone should be allowed to register a name, but if you aren't using it, someone else should be allowed to take it over. For example, the name of my business is currently registered to someone else but the person is not using it for anything. I should be able to request the use of the name and have it released to me if the other party doesn't have a website. I keep waiting for it to come on the market, but he keeps renewing it. When I go to the domain, I get a server not found message. And google turns up nothing when I search for the name.

-10 for stupidity: someone else has the name. Either buy it from them, or move on. That's the way it works: company names, dba names, trademarks, ad nauseum.

How do you know they are not using it for anything? Could still get getting funding, picking his nose, whatever. There's two kinds of animals in the forest: the quick and the dead.
 

iphones4evry1

macrumors 65816
Nov 26, 2008
1,197
0
California, USA
Apple should have a policy that the developer has to submit progress reports every month beginning after three months. If the App is not promising and evolving, then Apple will issue the developer a 30-day notice. If the developer does not make "significant and compelling" progress, then Apple can put the App name back up on the "available" list.
 

THX1139

macrumors 68000
Mar 4, 2006
1,928
0
-10 for stupidity: someone else has the name. Either buy it from them, or move on. That's the way it works: company names, dba names, trademarks, ad nauseum.

How do you know they are not using it for anything? Could still get getting funding, picking his nose, whatever. There's two kinds of animals in the forest: the quick and the dead.

-12 for being a jerk.

By the tone of your insolent remark, for a second there, I thought I was on Digg.

I was going to defend my remarks, then I realized you aren't worth my time.
 

lifeinhd

macrumors 65816
Mar 26, 2008
1,423
52
127.0.0.1
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11a Safari/525.20)

My solution: have developers pay a fee (say, $100) to register a name. Once an application is submitted, refund the $100. If no app is submitted, Apple keeps the money.

EDIT: apparently I'm not the first to think of this.
 

lifeinhd

macrumors 65816
Mar 26, 2008
1,423
52
127.0.0.1
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11a Safari/525.20)

THX1139 said:
This is easy to solve. Allow anyone to put the name on hold, but the person or company that actually delivers the binaries gets to use it.

Yeah... no. What if i've spent a year working on my app, I have the name on hold, I'm about to submit... and someone else submits an app with my name? Your idea would be like not even reserving names in the first place. What you are suggesting is not a solution.
 

fifthworld

macrumors 6502
Oct 22, 2008
268
5
Do you know anything about BRANDING? There are BIG developers with BIG titles in the App Store, you want them to just change the name of products that already exist? :rolleyes: That would be a mass of confusion!

Ladies and gentlemen, "ROCK BAND" is now on the iPhone... But, uh, wait, it is called "music group" instead because the name "Rock Band" was already taken lol! :rolleyes:

NO, it's you that don't know anything about branding. If a name is so important for a developer, than register it. There is already a process in place like for every other product in the market, it's called Trade Mark and Registered. What do you think the little ™ after ROCK BAND™ stand for?

Mmm, limiting the amount of time that any developer could hold an app name before releasing something for it would not have helped Atomic Antelope at all!

The so called "squatter" could have reserved "Twitch" a minute before AA made their request. :rolleyes:

Furthermore, using the term "squatter" on the people who reserved "Twitch" -a common word- is misleading.:( We call cyber-squatters only those who reserve other's copyrighted terms and names -e.g. macrumors1.com. Reserving common or non-copyrighted terms is not stealing nor illegal.

So then, Apple over-regulates the app name assignment process, and guess what, nothing is actually accomplished -developers can still sit on common names, fake trashy "name-parking" apps saturate the approval process and app store, and companies like atomic antelope keep shooting themselves in the foot in ever creative new ways, and spreading the blame afterwards.

Couldn't have said better. Apple doesn't need to have all this non sense. It's not protecting "my precious" from tons of useless crap apps anyway, and not saving us from the use of the "i" in front of every possible name.
 

dejo

Moderator emeritus
Sep 2, 2004
15,982
452
The Centennial State
There is already a process in place like for every other product in the market, it's called Trade Mark and Registered. What do you think the little ™ after ROCK BAND™ stand for?
Actually, ™ is usually used for an un-registered trademark. ® is for registered ones.
 

charlituna

macrumors G3
Jun 11, 2008
9,636
815
Los Angeles, CA
and which of apple's 20 employees in the app division would be in charge of controlling all of that coming and going noise?

it's a modified use the same systems used to keep two folks from having the same username in a system.

as for the 30 day window. add a field into the system that the rejecting reviewer can click that puts an extended expiration date on the chosen name. After that day it is dropped as a 'used name'

as for why would folks want a unique name. easy. users rarely remember the name of the company behind the app. so if I have an app called X and it's a big hit, I want to know that folks are finding it and not someone else's app called X which is not as awesome as mine and thus not only do I lose that sale, but any negative press about the other X could hurt me when folks mistaken my app for the crappy one
 

firewood

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2003
8,077
1,319
Silicon Valley
If the name is not already in use, file a trademark with the USPTO (or equivalent in your country) for use as a mobile software application name. Only costs a few hundred bucks. Notify Apple of your registration. After your trademark registration is granted, have your lawyer file a C&D letter with Apple demanding that they assign your trademarked name to you.
 

firewood

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2003
8,077
1,319
Silicon Valley
This is easy to solve. Allow anyone to put the name on hold, but the person or company that actually delivers the binaries gets to use it.

Find out about a big software development company that has a big project that a whole team of people have been working on the branding and graphics and marketing for nearly a year for an app whose name they've put on "hold".

Deliver the binary for a 10-minute "Hello World" app with that same name to the App store a week before big-corp is ready to submit theirs.

...

Profit!
 

SBlue1

macrumors 68000
Oct 17, 2008
1,865
2,277
Exactly. I think 30 days is a bit short, but certainly if you register an app name and then don't provide a full and approved version of your actual app within 3 months, then you should lose command of that app name. Problem solved.

so i just set an alarm for 3 months, and snipe another registration seconds after the old one expired. big deal.
 

fifthworld

macrumors 6502
Oct 22, 2008
268
5
If the name is not already in use, file a trademark with the USPTO (or equivalent in your country) for use as a mobile software application name. Only costs a few hundred bucks. Notify Apple of your registration. After your trademark registration is granted, have your lawyer file a C&D letter with Apple demanding that they assign your trademarked name to you.

Bingo! No need to live in SJ reality distortion field.
 

notsofatjames

macrumors 6502a
Jan 11, 2007
856
0
Wales, UK
-10 for stupidity: someone else has the name. Either buy it from them, or move on. That's the way it works: company names, dba names, trademarks, ad nauseum.

How do you know they are not using it for anything? Could still get getting funding, picking his nose, whatever. There's two kinds of animals in the forest: the quick and the dead.
Don't forget the rich and the cunning... Humans certainly aren't quick, but we're not dead yet!!

Apple should have a policy that the developer has to submit progress reports every month beginning after three months. If the App is not promising and evolving, then Apple will issue the developer a 30-day notice. If the developer does not make "significant and compelling" progress, then Apple can put the App name back up on the "available" list.
And add more burden to the already overburdened staff that process App Store registrants.

If the name is not already in use, file a trademark with the USPTO (or equivalent in your country) for use as a mobile software application name. Only costs a few hundred bucks. Notify Apple of your registration. After your trademark registration is granted, have your lawyer file a C&D letter with Apple demanding that they assign your trademarked name to you.
This prevents small, indie developers (1 man on his laptop) with small budgets from affording such luxuries, and big mighty corporations with big budgets, and better lawyers get to call their App whatever they want.

I've said it before in this thread, the last thing Apple wants to do is alienate small, indie developers as the diversity of the app store is one of the reason it's so successful.
 

edoates

macrumors 6502
May 22, 2006
299
6
-12 for being a jerk.

By the tone of your insolent remark, for a second there, I thought I was on Digg.

I was going to defend my remarks, then I realized you aren't worth my time.

Clearly, you are simply unable to defend your position. All I said was that developers are business people and need to understand how the system works. Writing an application is about 20% of the process of developing a product. Protecting the name is essential; if you forget that part, then you are not quick enough.

The "quick and the dead" was the motto of my US Army company ;-)
 

edoates

macrumors 6502
May 22, 2006
299
6
And how do you buy it from them when you don't even know who "they" are and thus don't have any way to contact them?

I didn't say it would be easy; in the world if the net, searches, blogs, etc. might be the only way to find them. Or see if the name has also been registered as a company name, trademark, etc. It is harder than the "olden" days when I started my company. But the first thing we did after decided to build something was to secure the company and product names; and even then, we missed one (Microsoft eventually used it: sigh).

So, we picked option two: we moved on and picked a different product name. It worked OK for us ;-)

But Apple application name reservation is not squatting, since it is easy to secure the name early on, before you've spent a lot of resources building, marketing, promotion, or even bragging to your friends. Those who neglect that step do so at their peril.

(Note: there may be some egregious example of folks actually squatting on well established names, like the aforementioned "Rock Band." There are other, legal avenues to pursue for usurpation of trademarks, product names, etc. when the purpose is to confuse.)
 

jordanh91

macrumors member
I like this idea.

You could also say that after registration of a name you have six months to have the app for sale. If not you lose the title and have to wait another month to re-register that title.
I'm with you on that idea.

I add that Apple should change the app store so a developer needs the binary FIRST before submitting the name, or to have the binary ready when they submit the name.
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,688
170
Do you know anything about BRANDING? There are BIG developers with BIG titles in the App Store, you want them to just change the name of products that already exist? :rolleyes: That would be a mass of confusion!

Ladies and gentlemen, "ROCK BAND" is now on the iPhone... But, uh, wait, it is called "music group" instead because the name "Rock Band" was already taken lol! :rolleyes:


something like rock band is different since they also own the trademark and registered it at the US PAtent and Trademark Office. all they have to do is send apple a letter saying give us the name.

in the case of twitch, they developer should have reserved the name and registered the trademark before they started any coding.
 

KnightWRX

macrumors Pentium
Jan 28, 2009
15,046
4
Quebec, Canada
"file a trademark application"



It's not a luxury. It's federal law. Following the law is a necessary cost of doing business legally.

Actually, trademarks are implicit. Registering them just gets you extra damages when you sue.

Maybe you should know the law before preaching it ?

And this is hardly a question of trademarks, we're talking developpers reserving dozens and dozens of names and only using 2-3. "Just in case". There needs to be a way for devs to release those names back into the available pool or else they are just being wasted.
 

edwardd20

macrumors newbie
Aug 12, 2009
10
0
Naperville IL
Unique names

I'm curious as to when Apple changed this policy. Since it certainly has not been since the introduction of the App Store. Take for example, there are two apps named "Flashlight !" and three named "Metronome".

If you look closely, the flashlight apps are called Flashlight, Flashlight., Flashlight-2, Flashlight-4, etc. The external names are the same but the internal names are different. Same for Metronome. (Go to http://appshopper.com to find the internal names.)

As a developer, I would be happy if I could delete a name that I started. Some of my Apps went through 3-4 name changes before I found one acceptable with how the App turned out (think focus groups). In the mean time I've locked out those names to others and I would be happy to relinquish them.

And to another comment, 6 months isn't always enough time to get the app released. My latest app is now 2 1/2 months in the approval process alone (twice rejected for various reasons).
 
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