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I’d love to be able to buy an alternative to iOS that works like iOS. Google should be forced to close source Android and properly control it so that I can get a product that does what I want.

It sounds really silly doesn’t it?

Yes it does, but I have an alternative. Companies are not legally allowed to infringe on the rights of end-users to use their property as they wish.

Individuals > government > corporations.
 
Yes it does, but I have an alternative. Companies are not legally allowed to infringe on the rights of end-users to use their property as they wish.

Individuals > government > corporations.
Oh right well then it sounds like Google are infringing on my rights to have Android work the way I want it to. Google should be forced to make Android work the way I want it to so that I can use an Android phone.
 
Oh right well then it sounds like Google are infringing on my rights to have Android work the way I want it to. Google should be forced to make Android work the way I want it to so that I can use an Android phone.

No, but they shouldn't be able to prevent you from doing what you want with it, with or without their permission.
 
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No, but they shouldn't be able to prevent you from doing what you want with it, with or without their permission.
I can’t do what I want with it, because google refuses to make that product for me.

I want a pixel phone with a closed source version of Android and no ability to install apps from third parties.

Google are violating my rights by not providing me that product.

No doubt your next argument will be that what YOU want from a phone is more important than what I want from a phone as an excuse why it should work one way but not the other.

I also don’t want any TVs with ‘smart’ functionality. TV manufacturers should be forced to make products without the smart functionality and just be a dumb screen.
 
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I'm for lower fees, period. Who is on the receiving in is of no concern.

The rent-seeking digital "services" economy is garbage.
Bingo. When it dawned on Apple that they could charge gatekeeper fees at the App Store, and dived straight in -- they drank slow poison. It'll probably take them several more years to kill the brand totally, but I see no signs they're going to slow down before they crash straight into the wall.
 
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I’d love to be able to buy an alternative to iOS that works like iOS. Google should be forced to close source Android and properly control it so that I can get a product that does what I want.

It sounds really silly doesn’t it?
Indeed it does when it already exist as a product using android.

The issue is control over business transactions we do
 
Instead of the App Store, Schiller should be in charge of retail stores.

Move Apple Store employees to hourly + commission pay, headed by a former VP of marketing and sales.

$50 per MacBook Pro. $25 per MacBook Air. 5% payout of gross accessory profit. $15 per iPhone. Suddenly you'll have workers that are paid well.

I don't understand why Apple doesn't do it. It would increase profits even more.
That is a good way to get me to never walk into an Apple Store again. Probably many others as well. Super dumb business decision.

Also from what I have seen, most people in the store are picking up online orders or having warranty issues resolved. Are we supposed to hear sales pitches to buy new stuff when we are already in there because a device let us down? Are we going to try to have accessories jammed down our throat when we pick up our online order? Do employees get a commission for online sales they didn’t even make, or do they miss out on those, further disrupting the stability and predictability of their paycheck and ability to pay bills and plan their future?

Let me guess… they should start prompting for 20% tips as well?
 
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I can’t do what I want with it, because google refuses to make that product for me.

I want a pixel phone with a closed source version of Android and no ability to install apps from third parties.

Google are violating my rights by not providing me that product.

No doubt your next argument will be that what YOU want from a phone is more important than what I want from a phone as an excuse why it should work one way but not the other.

I also don’t want any TVs with ‘smart’ functionality. TV manufacturers should be forced to make products without the smart functionality and just be a dumb screen.
Lol Google is not preventing you from modifying android to be closed source and only able to install a single source of apps such as the playstore.

Same with the TV, you can simply not use the smart functions
 
Apple believes they are entitled to a payment for any app that attempts to make money on iOS. It’s for law makers to say that they aren’t.
Oh, please. Do you really think more government is solution here?

Here's the solution: stop giving Apple your money until such time as they wise up (unlikely) or implode and are replaced. It turns out that this is astonishingly easy to do, since the used market is glutted with perfectly usable intel-era machines that are plenty fast enough to do anything you want (provided you can unwind them back to High Sierra or Mojave running in an HFS+ partition). Run Chromium-Legacy as a modern browser, and look for other old-version software. You don't have to be a slave to the AppStore; run the Terminal command that restores the ability of the OS to run apps downloaded from anywhere.

"New" used to mean something in the 1990s; today, it's a just a trap into a planned-obsolescence and subscription-model hellhole merrygoround.
 
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That is a good way to get me to never walk into an Apple Store again. Probably many others as well. Super dumb business decision.

Also from what I have seen, most people in the store are picking up online orders or having warranty issues resolved. Are we supposed to hear sales pitches to buy new stuff when we are already in there because a device let us down? Are we going to try to have accessories jammed down our throat when we pick up our online order? Do employees get a commission for online sales they didn’t even make, or do they miss out on those, further disrupting the stability and predictability of their paycheck and ability to pay bills and plan their future?

Let me guess… they should start prompting for 20% tips as well?
Very few employees are there working on warranty issues or the Genius Bar. Those employees should not be part of the sales umbrella. Pay those folks $20 an hour.

The entire point of the Apple Store is for sales. Why would the average Apple Store employee be any different than the salesman at Best Buy or Verizon? In fact, Apple stores look a bit ridiculous because there aren't salesmen on the floor.

Apple doesn't and shouldn't care if you stop going to their stores, because they could close them all down, push everything to online only, and then lose the expenses of running all of their stores. Based on personal experience, as someone who works in sales, the vast majority of the general public -- people not like you and I -- are not tech savvy, so these stores still exist.
 
Instead of the App Store, Schiller should be in charge of retail stores.

Move Apple Store employees to hourly + commission pay, headed by a former VP of marketing and sales.

$50 per MacBook Pro. $25 per MacBook Air. 5% payout of gross accessory profit. $15 per iPhone. Suddenly you'll have workers that are paid well.

I don't understand why Apple doesn't do it. It would increase profits even more.

People tend to have bad experiences with employees working on commission, as you can’t trust whose interest they have when they recommend something.

I remember when Circuit City used to be commission based and Best Buy was not, and customers would go out of their way to hit up Best Buy and avoid Circuit City.
 
No. I am not borrowing or renting or leasing my iPhone. It's my property, and I should be able to use my personal property as I wish.

How about Apple gives the end-user freedom instead of telling them to go elsewhere? Your suggestion is a just a lazy cop-out.
no, you bought your phone KNOWING the limits Apple put in place long ago.

if you didnt like those terms then it was a foolish purchase, wasnt it?

The suggestion to sell your iPhone and move isnt a lazy cop out. it's viable.
 
It's my phone and I should be able to do whatever I like with it, apple-approved or otherwise.

I don't think companies should be allowed to control how consumers use their devices.



Japan is requiring the App Store to open up. India is discussing it as well.

What are their reasons?

Follow the money to find the truth in anything.
 
I'm not sure what this resolves for Apple. Still, looking forward to see how the situation develops.
They got rid of a guy that was not with the "screw the user" management strategy. Who at the level, with Apple pay levels and stock options, leaves unless something is wrong. Don't know what. But something.
 
People tend to have bad experiences with employees working on commission, as you can’t trust whose interest they have when they recommend something.

I remember when Circuit City used to be commission based and Best Buy was not, and customers would go out of their way to hit up Best Buy and avoid Circuit City.
The world has changed. Where else will the customer go now.
 
And still the double standards continue...

If Microsoft are charging for in app purchases, no matter what the amount currently is (and changeable anytime MS deems they want to - up or down) then why are they not coping flak on here?
They're charging for transaction made through their commerce system.
They're not charging for transactions elsewhere - or as remotely connected as only having downloaded an app weeks ago.
As far as Apple are concerned, any app that tries to generate revenue through iOS owes Apple a fee of some description, whether that be a flat fee or a revenue share
Wrong.

Apps like the Uber or Doordash apps generate revenue through their apps - yet don't owe Apple a commission. Do their developers have a developer subscription? Yes - but so do non-profit apps have to have it. That has got nothing to do with revenue.
Just as one example, it also says that Apple can't offer core OS features in the EU without giving competitors who ask for it the same access to build a competing feature
Wrong.

They have to provide interoperability for services. But they can very well build OS features that can't be copied by competitors.
So, Apple can't block a porn app featuring Disney cartoons for either the porn part or the stealing Disney's Intellectual Property part (congrats EU!)
That's not Apple's job.
They're not the police - and they aren't the judge on what constitutes IP infringement or not.
Disney can take action against that developer.
You made an incorrect and personally incompatible purchase of a smartphone communication device.

And, now you know that fact. The iPhone does not fulfill your desires or needs.
You may be old school, but I may be just blow your mind:

Smartphone operating system aren't a two-sizes-fit-all product.
No smartphone OS may fully fulfill your or my needs.
 
As my friend once told me when my school had a new principal who started tossing out a bunch of school programmes which nobody really liked - it's not what is removed, but what succeeds it. As it turned out, she did so to pave the way for instituting her own programmes and practices, and we are now all busier than ever. 🤣

So whether the new direction of the App Store will be a net positive for the EU or not, well, we will just have to wait and see.
 
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I can’t do what I want with it, because google refuses to make that product for me.
You can cook up a custom ROM.
I want a pixel phone with a closed source version of Android and no ability to install apps from third parties.
Google's ROM for the Pixel is a closed source. The alternative is AOSP (android open source project) that a lot of custom ROM crafters use.
Google are violating my rights by not providing me that product.
Google gave you exactly what you asked for: a closed source ROM. Now if Apple allowed an alternative open source iOS, I'm guessing a sizable number of folks would abandon the closed source iOS.
No doubt your next argument will be that what YOU want from a phone is more important than what I want from a phone as an excuse why it should work one way but not the other.
Again, an open source iOS would solve this. Let those who want custom features cook up their own iOS.
I also don’t want any TVs with ‘smart’ functionality. TV manufacturers should be forced to make products without the smart functionality and just be a dumb screen.
Regular TV are plentiful and cheap.
 
They're charging for transaction made through their commerce system.
They're not charging for transactions elsewhere - or as remotely connected as only having downloaded an app weeks ago.

Wrong.

Apps like the Uber or Doordash apps generate revenue through their apps - yet don't owe Apple a commission. Do their developers have a developer subscription? Yes - but so do non-profit apps have to have it. That has got nothing to do with revenue.

Wrong.

They have to provide interoperability for services. But they can very well build OS features that can't be copied by competitors.

That's not Apple's job.
They're not the police - and they aren't the judge on what constitutes IP infringement or not.
Disney can take action against that developer.

You may be old school, but I may be just blow your mind:

Smartphone operating system aren't a two-sizes-fit-all product.
No smartphone OS may fully fulfill your or my needs.
wrong.

the console stores are charging commission on IAP of things at 30%.
that's what my original link showed...
 
Apple doesn't and shouldn't care if you stop going to their stores, because they could close them all down, push everything to online only, and then lose the expenses of running all of their stores.
Debating what Apple "should" do is a variant of the wouldchuck fallacy where you wish for ponies instead of imagining them.

Apple's current situation reminds me of comic books around fifteen years ago: DC and Marvel were huge, but they had priced themselves out of the reach of youth. (Raise your hand if you remember comic books being sold from spinner-racks at gas-station convenience-stores. They're a;; gone now, because no kid was interested in spending five bucks on a skinny magazine half full of ads when manga is now much more interesting, if that's their thing.) Meanwhile, Apple is down to 16% of the education market, and virtually none of that is K-12, which it used to dominate. They've lost the free advertising to millions of kids while simultaneously acquiring a bad reputation for locked-down hardware that no one can affordably repair. And Google is flood-filling the globe with Android tablets costing well under $100.

Ah well, "The Producers"-style scheme of offloading onto Class-C common stockholders seems to be proceeding nicely, so they have that to look forward to.
 
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They've lost the free advertising to millions of kids while simultaneously acquiring a bad reputation for locked-down hardware that no one can affordably repair. And Google is flood-filling the globe with Android tablets costing well under $100.

Consumers don’t exactly hate closed ecosystems, which is why the groundswell of support that Epic was hoping (when Apple booted Fortnite from the app stores) ultimately didn’t materialise.

At the same time, even if I were to switch to using an android tablet some day, there’s no reason to buy such a cheap device when I could get a better experience by spending more (and I am not averse to doing precisely that). Cheap devices just mean more landfill down the road (something people here have been curiously very silent on when it comes to android hardware).

Suggesting that these factors sound the death knell for Apple is as ridiculous today as it was 10 years ago.
 
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Debating what Apple "should" do is a of the wouldchuck fallacy where you wish for ponies instead of imagining them.

Apple's current situation reminds me of comic books around fifteen years ago: DC and Marvel were huge, but they had priced themselves out of the reach of youth. (Raise your hand if you remember comic books being sold from spinner-racks at gas-station convenience-stores. They're a;; gone now, because no kid was interested in spending five bucks on a skinny magazine half full of ads when manga is now much more interesting, if that's their thing.) Meanwhile, Apple is down to 16% of the education market, and virtually none of that is K-12, which it used to dominate. They've lost the free advertising to millions of kids while simultaneously acquiring a bad reputation for locked-down hardware that no one can affordably repair. And Google is flood-filling the globe with Android tablets costing well under $100.

Ah well, "The Producers"-style scheme of offloading onto Class-C common stockholders seems to be proceeding nicely, so they have that to look forward to.
With everything moving online these days, Apple wouldn't be hurting themselves by moving everything online.

Microsoft closed all of their retail stores in 2020 and that company is doing just fine -- in fact, the company is worth over $3 trillion as well.
 
With everything moving online these days, Apple wouldn't be hurting themselves by moving everything online.

Microsoft closed all of their retail stores in 2020 and that company is doing just fine -- in fact, the company is worth over $3 trillion as well.
there's something about walking into an Apple store though... and it's never a hard pitched salesperson.
 
there's something about walking into an Apple store though... and it's never a hard pitched salesperson.
Not sure about you, but when I walk into an Apple Store, I feel like I'm being tended to by people who wouldn't be able to make it at any skilled job. The folks that work there aren't that bright, or at least dumb themselves down so they are understood by people who don't have a clue about technology.
 
Not sure about you, but when I walk into an Apple Store, I feel like I'm being tended to by people who wouldn't be able to make it at any skilled job. The folks that work there aren't that bright, or at least dumb themselves down so they are understood by people who don't have a clue about technology.
well i always find the staff friendly, quick, efficient and knowledgeable.

perhaps they learn to react to the customer :)
 
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