App Thinning is the reason apps aren't syncing to iTunes

Mesut

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 8, 2015
30
15
App Thinning is the reason apps aren't syncing to iTunes from iOS 9.

If you haven't noticed already, when you update an app Over-the-Air it doesn't transfer the IPA file to iTunes even if it's not a thinned version of the app.
 
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Mesut

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 8, 2015
30
15
App Thinning sounds like a bad idea to me.
Exactly.

What if the app gets removed from the app store? You'll only have half a game?
As of now, you can still download the full apps directly from iTunes which can be synced to the phone - but they cannot be synced back to iTunes.

Since exclusive iCloud backup users are more likely to benefit from App Thinning, iTunes backup users should at least be able to opt out of it.
 
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zorinlynx

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May 31, 2007
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Is there a way to tell iTunes to download all the apps that are on the phone?

For example, when I went from my iPhone 5 to my iPhone 6, I did a backup with iTunes, including all apps. Then I restored that backup to the 6. It was a LOT faster than if it had to download all the apps again.

I guess we will be playing the waiting game next upgrade. :(
 

zorinlynx

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May 31, 2007
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Actually I Just backed up my phone to iTunes, and I have a feeling that installed apps are now included in the backup itself, rather than transferred off the phone as apps.

Why? Well, for one, the phone took a lot longer to back up than it used to under iOS 8. Second, the size increase of the backup suggests that apps are included.

I'm not willing to do a restore right now to find out if this is the case, but if someone else wants to test my theory, feel free.
 

Yun0

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Jun 12, 2013
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Winnipeg, Canada
thats crap, proof? did apple say so? is there a faq page we all missed? why is the option to transfer purchases still there then? why when backing up if the pc isnt authenticated, itunes askes to do so or ur apps wont transfer?

how are we supposed to restore from backups with itunes, let alone the apps with their app data? what we all live in the cloud now? clouds crash, they get shutdown, they get attacked, leaked..
 
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Leonick

macrumors newbie
Jan 24, 2014
18
6
how are we supposed to restore from backups with itunes, let alone the apps with their app data? what we all live in the cloud now? clouds crash, they get shutdown, they get attacked, leaked..
The backups never held the apps, just the app data. You could restore an iTunes backup and the pull the cable preventing it from syncing over apps, if you then downloaded the apps instead you still had the app data as it was restored from the backup.
 

Yun0

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Jun 12, 2013
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The backups never held the apps, just the app data. You could restore an iTunes backup and the pull the cable preventing it from syncing over apps, if you then downloaded the apps instead you still had the app data as it was restored from the backup.
how do u prevent apps from syncing by pulling cable if theres no apps to sync cause they arent transferring? manually manage all my apps on itunes now? no.

if backups never had the apps why could we restore ios before, restore backup, & all the apps came back with it, app data included.? some apps reply on app data for profiles etc, ie: delete app & redownload it, account & profile itself remain, chat history gone. unacceptable. apple even warns u appdata is tied to the app when deleted, then how can the appdata be there without the app.?

id try it myself but i have some appdata chat logs i want to retain, now im depending on icloud backups...this reminds me of the camera roll fiasco, unnecessary confusing change out of nowhere thats surely making more than just me tick already, thankfully apple listened then
 

Leonick

macrumors newbie
Jan 24, 2014
18
6
how do u prevent apps from syncing by pulling cable if theres no apps to sync cause they arent transferring? manually manage all my apps on itunes now? no.

if backups never had the apps why could we restore ios before, restore backup, & all the apps came back with it, app data included.? some apps reply on app data for profiles etc, ie: delete app & redownload it, account & profile itself remain, chat history gone. unacceptable. apple even warns u appdata is tied to the app when deleted, then how can the appdata be there without the app.?

id try it myself but i have some appdata chat logs i want to retain, now im depending on icloud backups...this reminds me of the camera roll fiasco, unnecessary confusing change out of nowhere thats surely making more than just me tick already, thankfully apple listened then
Because the backup includes all your iOS settings including a list of installed applications and homesceen layout so when you restore a backup in iTunes it first installs iOS, then it loads in all your settings, app data/documents, photos and such and then it syncs whatever apps you had installed.

If the backup included the apps themselves and not just their data/documents the backup files for my devices would be around 30GB, not 1GB.

An iTunes backup and an iCloud backup is essentially the same thing except where iTunes can (or could) sync in locally stored copies of the app and iCloud backup would always download them.

If you want to make sure you have all apps stored in iTunes and up to date just make sure you set iTunes to automatically download any device downloaded on another device and then download update via iTunes and let them be installed on the devices when you sync. As you use iTunes as backup (as do I) I presume you sync your devices fairly regularly.
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
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App Thinning sounds like a bad idea to me. What if the app gets removed from the app store? You'll only have half a game?
Apps never get removed from the App Store, they are only hidden from the shop page. The latest version of every app you bought can be downloaded from your purchase history. Developers still submit entire (i.e. complete) universal apps, even when they use on-demand resources (ODR). These apps are then uploaded to the App Store and it will distribute the thinned/ODR versions to users. So when you have an app that uses ODR and is removed by the developer, the app will still function normally, because the entire app is still available in the App Store.

If you want to make sure you have all apps stored in iTunes and up to date just make sure you set iTunes to automatically download any device downloaded on another device and then download update via iTunes and let them be installed on the devices when you sync. As you use iTunes as backup (as do I) I presume you sync your devices fairly regularly.
This.
 
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nebo1ss

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Jun 2, 2010
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This is interesting I was wondering why I can no longer transfer apps from Iphone to itunes. Sounds like the best option for the future is to download apps only in itunes and then sync to phone.
 

KALLT

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Sep 23, 2008
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This is interesting I was wondering why I can no longer transfer apps from Iphone to itunes. Sounds like the best option for the future is to download apps only in itunes and then sync to phone.
There is no need for that. Just go to iTunes settings > store and check apps under automatic downloads. Whenever you purchase an app on your iPhone/iPad, iTunes will download its very own (complete) copy as well. If you ever need to set up a new device or restore from backup, it will transfer the complete versions.
 

Yun0

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Jun 12, 2013
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Winnipeg, Canada
Because the backup includes all your iOS settings including a list of installed applications and homesceen layout so when you restore a backup in iTunes it first installs iOS, then it loads in all your settings, app data/documents, photos and such and then it syncs whatever apps you had installed.

If the backup included the apps themselves and not just their data/documents the backup files for my devices would be around 30GB, not 1GB.

An iTunes backup and an iCloud backup is essentially the same thing except where iTunes can (or could) sync in locally stored copies of the app and iCloud backup would always download them.

If you want to make sure you have all apps stored in iTunes and up to date just make sure you set iTunes to automatically download any device downloaded on another device and then download update via iTunes and let them be installed on the devices when you sync. As you use iTunes as backup (as do I) I presume you sync your devices fairly regularly.
ill try it today, ill just delete all those apps in the itunes library then..sync, backup, restore backup after wipe..i know icloud downloads all the apps again, that came out fine used it before. id assume the restore process was smart & shoved in the appdata as the app installed again
 

KALLT

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Sep 23, 2008
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ill try it today, ill just delete all those apps in the itunes library then..sync, backup, restore backup after wipe..i know icloud downloads all the apps again, that came out fine used it before. id assume the restore process was smart & shoved in the appdata as the app installed again
Don’t(!) do this. If you restore from an iTunes backup and the apps aren’t there, they will not be restored.
 

nebo1ss

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There is no need for that. Just go to iTunes settings > store and check apps under automatic downloads. Whenever you purchase an app on your iPhone/iPad, iTunes will download its very own (complete) copy as well. If you ever need to set up a new device or restore from backup, it will transfer the complete versions.
This is not going to work for me I use to live in New York and now live in London. I have two Apple ID's one in each store. While most of my apps come from the US store I have quite a few that are only available in the UK store. You can only set one ID to automatic download.
 

Defender2010

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Jun 6, 2010
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This is not going to work for me I use to live in New York and now live in London. I have two Apple ID's one in each store. While most of my apps come from the US store I have quite a few that are only available in the UK store. You can only set one ID to automatic download.
No true. Same goes for me. I restored the other day and all my apps (some only available in the US Store - eg. paper by Facebook or trailers by Apple) downloaded to my phone. As long as the computer you restored it with is authorized with both accounts it will allow apps to be downloaded from a different store. Mine restored, restored from an iTunes backup and then all the apps downloaded without me having to enter any iTunes Store account passwords or switch stores. It remained on my UK account despite downloading the above apps.
 

nebo1ss

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Jun 2, 2010
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No true. Same goes for me. I restored the other day and all my apps (some only available in the US Store - eg. paper by Facebook or trailers by Apple) downloaded to my phone. As long as the computer you restored it with is authorized with both accounts it will allow apps to be downloaded from a different store. Mine restored, restored from an iTunes backup and then all the apps downloaded without me having to enter any iTunes Store account passwords or switch stores. It remained on my UK account despite downloading the above apps.
This is a different issue. The probem I was referring to is that when you update your APS OTA you cannot just plug you phone into itunes in the future and just do a transfer which is an option under "File, Devices, Transfer" it no longer works. The Op suggestion to deal with this was to have Itunes set to automatically download apps that you update through OTA. That works fine but you can only set one ID in itunes to do this. Also not sure how long ago the other day was but this is a brand new problem that I have only seen with IOS9.
 

Yun0

macrumors 68000
Jun 12, 2013
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Winnipeg, Canada
Don’t(!) do this. If you restore from an iTunes backup and the apps aren’t there, they will not be restored.
thats what im expecting..it makes no sense if they arent there but idk, this better be a bug & not some dumb intentional change, but u cant transfer them from the phone so they are there to sync back..& ive never seen a auto download option in itunes to grab what u have on the device

only 1 thing i hate with this years update, this. bug or not, fix this apple, camera roll like fiasco all over again
 

Applerx

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2015
37
6
What should I do in case an app gets removed from the app store now?
I have an app on my phone that is not available in the store anymore. How can i back it up?
 

KALLT

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2008
5,136
3,182
What should I do in case an app gets removed from the app store now?
I have an app on my phone that is not available in the store anymore. How can i back it up?
Go to the App Store > Updates > Purchased. Download it from there. In iTunes: click on your name in the toolbar > Purchased.
 

Applerx

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2015
37
6
Go to the App Store > Updates > Purchased. Download it from there. In iTunes: click on your name in the toolbar > Purchased.

Hm, can't find it. Triple checked on the iPhone as well as in iTunes - nothing...
 

Mesut

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 8, 2015
30
15
There is no need for that. Just go to iTunes settings > store and check apps under automatic downloads. Whenever you purchase an app on your iPhone/iPad, iTunes will download its very own (complete) copy as well. If you ever need to set up a new device or restore from backup, it will transfer the complete versions.
This is a good solution if you have high-speed unlimited WiFi at home which I do not have in my country.
Therefore from now on, I can only download new apps or update from iTunes to avoid having to download the same app twice.
 
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