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I would never set foot in a self driving Apple Vehicle...

They can't get their Operating Systems to run halfway safe. How on earth would they get the car right...

Apple should stick to making gadgets and leave safety to folks whose main business isn't browsing the web.
 
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I really wish Apple would concentrate more on making Apple maps a real alternative to Google Maps. I don't trust Google, and Apple is lacking way back.

Some Apple services should be availble to non-Apple device customers for it to thrive. I trust Apple with my data more than Google. At least, Apple makes money on real software, hardware, and services while Google makes its money by selling your info.
 
When the cars come out, should I get AppleCare+, or just an Otterbox?

How about the mandatory car insurance?
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If I am honest, right now I don't want to be driven by a car controlled by Apple's software.

As bad as it may be, I still think is not as bad as driven by humans.
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I would never trust software to drive me and my family in my car.

That's alright! Some 90% of road accidents are caused mainly by human errors, so yeah.... you be my guest. Myself I am looking forward to the time when humans are prohibited by law to drive manually on motorways. I do not like accidents. They are terrible to happen to people.
Still, something tells my that on a very near future you would be laughing your head off at your very own comment.
 
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How about the mandatory car insurance?


As bad as it may be, I still think is not as bad as driven by humans.


That's alright! Some 90% of road accidents are caused mainly by human errors, so yeah.... you be my guest. Myself I am looking forward to the time when humans are prohibited by law to drive manually on motorways. I do not like accidents. They are terrible to happen to people.
Still, something tells my that on a very near future you would be laughing your head off at your very own comment.

You don't know, how many are 100% controlled by software now, I can tell you, *none, you can start to make comparisons if all cars are driverless.

* Even Tesla's are not 100% driverless.

You are right about most drivers though, can't drive.
 
You don't know, how many are 100% controlled by software now, I can tell you, *none, you can start to make comparisons if all cars are driverless.

* Even Tesla's are not 100% driverless.

You are right about most drivers though, can't drive.

Yeah, but I am not talking about "right now" but rather where we are heading. In my opinion automated drive is gonna revolutionise transportation and we are gonna look back at this time and wonder how did we live a life with so many accidents. But I think that can be 100% achieved only when humans are not allowed to manually drive (except for a certain circumstances and when that happens the car should indicate that is being manually driven so other cars around are aware that there is a human on the steering wheel and know how to react)

Tesla cars are nice but this one from Renault seems quite impressive.

 
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Honestly for reading, I wholly recommend getting off the iPad/Iphone/phoenwhateveryou use for reading (if it's novels / simple text) and get an e-reader.

best thing I did for my head/eyes / sleep for my reading
'

Have had a Kindle for a while. And a Sony before that. Battery life good. Backlight good. BUT can't reverse text so too much light and wakes up partner. At least on a phone I can use black background in iBooks or most eReader apps. Would be great if Kindle let you reverse it. The page flip/refresh is distracting and too slow when wanting to flip through pages quickly.

I do use it though when traveling. Good on a plane as battery life is good.
 
“Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.“

Self driving cars are not a white elephant. 3D movies will keep getting better and more immersive. And AR and drone deliveries will be a part of daily life within a generation.

Mate. Here’s some facts. There have been TWO self driving RTCs this week in Califormia alone. A Tesla Model S and a Chevy Bolt have been involved. One of which ploughed inti the rear of a Fire Truck! Apparently the owner said it had been on Autopilot at the time. The other involved impact with a poor motorcyclist. I’m sure all have been placated by the drivers claims that these concepts will definitely be better “within a generation”. The only question being what generation? Still. I’m sure you’ll believe all the hype. Here’s the deal. Nobody wants them. It’s plain daft. It’s never going to happen. Best to invest in roads and infrastructure, eh? Instead of treating the symptoms. Good.

Now. If you’ll excuse me I’m off to play with my Sony AiBo. It should be arriving any minute in its own self driving car. Apparently. Cheers!
 
Yeah, but I am not talking about "right now" but rather where we are heading. In my opinion automated drive is gonna revolutionise transportation and we are gonna look back at this time and wonder how did we live a life with so many accidents. But I think that can be 100% achieved only when humans are not allowed to manually drive (except for a certain circumstances and when that happens the car should indicate that is being manually driven so other cars around are aware that there is a human on the steering wheel and know how to react)

Tesla cars are nice but this one from Renault seems quite impressive.


Thanks for that Video, amazing stuff.
 
Cars also operate in a 3-dimensional environment. They have to take grade into account, can go up/down layers of roads (such as parking garage) that give the same map location, have to observe elements high and low, etc.

In terms of complexity, ground space >>>> air space; the latter is exceptionally more predictable.

That's why planes have been using autopilot as the norm for over half a century, well before modern computers were available, while even present day cars have the most limited automation. It's also why planes can fly themselves but won't taxi on their own.

Just look at the colossal array of cameras and sensors on the car in the OP. It's nuts. And that has to be combined with the most advanced algorithms to try to interpret what's going on on the road around it.

Of course the guidance system on planes can "read" the flight parameters. That's what it uses to pilot the plane automatically. I have no idea how you can pretend they don't -- that's how automation works. Planes can absolutely detect one another with systems like TCAS. For other collision precautions, look to how heavily controlled airspace is, and the presence of pilots still.

Nobody is saying flying isn't complicated, of course it is. That's why they still have pilots on planes. But the physical control of an airplane is fairly straight-forward to automate since there isn't much unexpected to account for. Getting the plane in the right place, velocity, altitude, etc, are all perfectly manageable.

On the other hand, interpreting camera images and trying to figure out from the countless number of scenarios what in the world is happening... that's an exceptionally complex challenge. I say this as someone who works in commercial automation.

Your nasty attitude towards others makes this seem a worthless endeavor.

I am not being the least bit "nasty." I am simply trying to explain something to you that I seem to know more about from personal experience.

To understand the significance of the 3D aviation environment and the differences I am attempting to communicate to you, imagine that another car could not just come down the street or across an intersection towards you, but over a building from ten stories above you, or up through the street under you, from any possible direction. Anyone who has flown much has felt the holy terror of having another airplane appear nearby seemingly out of nowhere, perhaps closing on you at a couple hundred knots. As I've explained already, not all airspace is heavily controlled. Most of it in fact is not controlled at all.

I owned an airplane with a TCAS system and while they are getting better they are very far from accurate or foolproof. Not a substitute for eyeballs. As the air traffic system transitions from the radar and transponder based system in place for decades into the NextGen system with ADS, the ability to report traffic in real time will be vastly improved. Yet, by no means will every airplane in the sky have these capabilities. This means in effect the aircraft that do will have to compensate for those that don't (just as self-driving cars would have to account for the fact that not every car on the road has this capability).

Sure, various kinds of autopilots have been around for decades. In their more basic forms they are wing-levelers and course and altitude holders. They work so long as the air is relatively calm but can easily be overwhelmed by even modest amounts of turbulence. You might not be able to easily see the variables in the sky, but they are there, very much so, and they challenge automation just the same as the variables on the ground do for automating cars.

Finally, please don't get the idea that cross country high altitude flying is in any useful way the same as flying at low altitude in traffic. They are completely different exercises. The distances between takeoffs and landings can occupy the vast majority of time aloft and are relatively easy to manage (and automate), because they involve mainly holding courses and altitudes and can tolerate significant margins for error. But that is not where the accidents happen. They happen maneuvering at low altitudes in proximity to terrain, obstructions, and other aircraft, where the margins of error are much smaller. That environment is very complex and unpredictable. The variables are no less than faced by cars, just very different and the consequences of system failure that much greater.

You can accept that or not, it makes no difference to me. It will be true in either event.
 
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What I want? A line of high-end, high-priced computers that are updated at regular intervals and make use of current technology.

Yeah, as I said, the iMac Pro came out last month.

The only computer not updated is the Mac mini. Everything else is as current as it can be.
 
Yeah, as I said, the iMac Pro came out last month.

The only computer not updated is the Mac mini. Everything else is as current as it can be.

We seem to have differing definitions of "current". For example, the MacBook Pro is currently sold only with dual-core processors and a max of 16gb of memory. While we can agree that those specs are tolerable, they are hardly high-end pro numbers. At a minimum these should top out at quad-core / 32GB... and that's without opening the available ports can-o-worms.

Also, "Everything else is as current as it can be" should be rewritten "Everything else is as low-end as Apple can make it and still get people to stomach paying top dollar". Big difference between the two.
 
I think we're missing the big picture here...

My guess is that there is probably a much bigger reason for Apple to go down this path. There could be a tax reason (R&D) apart from the huge market potential of vehicles... the R&D tax breaks are probably why they are looking at the self driving car option, but the benefits of moving towards automated vehicles are many.

The long term benefit to Apple and it's consumers would HAVE to include improved Siri, Maps and AR.
The days of "desktop computing" have almost gone.

So, even if the car does get produced then is a big flop, there will be a "halo" effect, like there was with iPod and the Mac in the 90's.

It's time for Apple to move forward, it may not end up being to everyone's liking, but the steps forward will ensure that Apple continue to be around for many years to come.

Since Apple have made amazing progress in Aluminium casting and the OS they use is Unix based and reliable and they can use existing Tesla open source technologies (with some caveats)...

The difference between someone like Apple and Google for these solutions will be simple. Google will have self driving car technology with no car to put it into and therefore will give the technology to car developers under the condition that Google collect and sell all the data from the cars, whereas Apple will "protect" all data under the software/hardware complete solution, but it will come at a price and will only be able to be worked on by Apple service centres.
 
I think we're missing the big picture here...

My guess is that there is probably a much bigger reason for Apple to go down this path. There could be a tax reason (R&D) apart from the huge market potential of vehicles... the R&D tax breaks are probably why they are looking at the self driving car option, but the benefits of moving towards automated vehicles are many.

The long term benefit to Apple and it's consumers would HAVE to include improved Siri, Maps and AR.
The days of "desktop computing" have almost gone.

....

The difference between someone like Apple and Google for these solutions will be simple. Google will have self driving car technology with no car to put it into and therefore will give the technology to car developers under the condition that Google collect and sell all the data from the cars, whereas Apple will "protect" all data under the software/hardware complete solution, but it will come at a price and will only be able to be worked on by Apple service centres.

I think you are on to something, but might have come to the wrong conclusions .
Data mining is done by Apple as well, only a tad more discreetly than by Google .

I don't see autonomous individual transport anywhere in our future, or the future of the next few generations .
But the race for user data access is very much on - Apple is trying to position itself just like other companies, to get its systems into cars for control over user data .
 
At a minimum these should top out at quad-core / 32GB... and that's without opening the available ports can-o-worms.

This has been covered numerous times - you can't get 32GB in DDR3L and currently intel chips don't support DDR4L and Apple isn't willing to sacrifice even more battery life (which currently isn't great) for 32GB virtually nobody (almost certainly you) don't need - there's in-depth technological papers about 16GB usage that you're going to have to go a hell of a long way to need more than that. (https://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6355)

All the i7 chips are Quad-core so i've no idea what you're going on about there. The 7920HQ is the highest available in the Kaby Lake line possible for the MacBook Pro.

The ports are perfect, i've been living with only USB-C now for 15 months. I don't even have USB-A connectors anymore, they've all be upgraded for a very small fee to USB-C cables and binned. You're an idiot if you think a computer needs USB-A ports in 2018, you're even more daft (and obviously haven't used one) if you think the lazy tech media's dongle nonsense clickbait stuff is real. I've never used a dongle for anything about from Ethernet (which I've had to do for 10 years anyway) - in fact before if I wanted to perform live I need a USB hub as the old MacBook only had two ports and my live setup needs 3 USB sockets - now I don't need a hub because the 3 USB ports are available in the laptop.
 
Some Apple services should be availble to non-Apple device customers for it to thrive.

I agree, for example I think Apple Maps would benefit from being available on other devices and desktops, with people able to give feedback. That’s partly why Google Maps got so good.

I trust Apple with my data more than Google. At least, Apple makes money on real software, hardware, and services while Google makes its money by selling your info.

Google doesn’t sell personal info.

They make money the same way Apple made money with iAds (and still does with Search Ads) -- by selling anonymous targeted ad slots. I.e. you pay for your ad to be seen by a certain demographic, and Apple/Google shows the right ads to the right people.
 
Mate. Here’s some facts. There have been TWO self driving RTCs this week in Califormia alone. A Tesla Model S and a Chevy Bolt have been involved. One of which ploughed inti the rear of a Fire Truck! Apparently the owner said it had been on Autopilot at the time. The other involved impact with a poor motorcyclist. I’m sure all have been placated by the drivers claims that these concepts will definitely be better “within a generation”. The only question being what generation? Still. I’m sure you’ll believe all the hype. Here’s the deal. Nobody wants them. It’s plain daft. It’s never going to happen. Best to invest in roads and infrastructure, eh? Instead of treating the symptoms. Good.

Now. If you’ll excuse me I’m off to play with my Sony AiBo. It should be arriving any minute in its own self driving car. Apparently. Cheers!
You are “sure” I’ll “believe in the hype”? And this is based on what, exactly? Our years of friendship? Presuming you know anything about what I will or won’t think is pointless.

Yes, there were some accidents. And...? What’s your point? Or are you not aware that all new products have glitches and typically take multiple iterations and generations to perfect? Autonomous driving with be no different. And because it involves public safety, and will represent a sea change in transportation, it will probably be highly regulated and evolve slowly, meaning it’s probably further off than some folks think. But it will happen. Anyone who fantasizes differently has their head in the sand.
 
This has been covered numerous times - you can't get 32GB in DDR3L and currently intel chips don't support DDR4L and Apple isn't willing to sacrifice even more battery life (which currently isn't great) for 32GB virtually nobody (almost certainly you) don't need - there's in-depth technological papers about 16GB usage that you're going to have to go a hell of a long way to need more than that. (https://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=6355)

All the i7 chips are Quad-core so i've no idea what you're going on about there. The 7920HQ is the highest available in the Kaby Lake line possible for the MacBook Pro.

The ports are perfect, i've been living with only USB-C now for 15 months. I don't even have USB-A connectors anymore, they've all be upgraded for a very small fee to USB-C cables and binned. You're an idiot if you think a computer needs USB-A ports in 2018, you're even more daft (and obviously haven't used one) if you think the lazy tech media's dongle nonsense clickbait stuff is real. I've never used a dongle for anything about from Ethernet (which I've had to do for 10 years anyway) - in fact before if I wanted to perform live I need a USB hub as the old MacBook only had two ports and my live setup needs 3 USB sockets - now I don't need a hub because the 3 USB ports are available in the laptop.

It's sure nice that you know how everyone else uses our high-priced computing devices. THANKS FOR SETTING US STRAIGHT! Apparently my use case is wrong.
 
I would never set foot in a self driving Apple Vehicle...

They can't get their Operating Systems to run halfway safe. How on earth would they get the car right...

Apple should stick to making gadgets and leave safety to folks whose main business isn't browsing the web.
Just total nonsense. Want Microsoft or Google to put your safety and security first? Yes, Microsoft and Google; the true models of user security and privacy.
 
Wouldn't get in to Google or Microsoft Cars either. Gadget Makers just the same.
Nothing against gadget makers - I love gadgets for what they are and I make my living by working with them.

Mercedes build awesome cars. I have one and would always buy one. If tomorrow they came out with a Smartphone I would not buy that either. Just as I would not get in to an Apple Self Driving Car.

Currently no one I know and talk about the Apple Car with, would be willing to put the safety of their children nor themselves in to an Apple Product - 10 years ago perhaps. But today. 100% NO !

It is not exactly good business policy to super-reduce the quality and reliability of your software before launching a self-driving vehicle....
 
It's sure nice that you know how everyone else uses our high-priced computing devices. THANKS FOR SETTING US STRAIGHT! Apparently my use case is wrong.

You haven't stated a use case you just used some archaic argument about Macs being out of date when they aren't and made at least 3 incorrect statements you forgot to apologise about because you're rather be sarcastic to cover your tracks.

It's fine, I get it, have a good day.
 
Don't worry. Google's cars will drive you for "free" while they track your location and subject you to non-stop advertising.
That is such a small price to pay to get me to my destination in a safe in a timely manner.


Cars also operate in a 3-dimensional environment. They have to take grade into account, can go up/down layers of roads (such as parking garage) that give the same map location, have to observe elements high and low, etc.
In parking garages, one needs to be concerned about clearance. No joke, I decided to take a shortcut one time, only to underestimate just how low a ceiling fixture was :(


Nobody is saying flying isn't complicated, of course it is. That's why they still have pilots on planes. But the physical control of an airplane is fairly straight-forward to automate since there isn't much unexpected to account for. Getting the plane in the right place, velocity, altitude, etc, are all perfectly manageable.

On the other hand, interpreting camera images and trying to figure out from the countless number of scenarios what in the world is happening... that's an exceptionally complex challenge. I say this as someone who works in commercial automation.

Your nasty attitude towards others makes this seem a worthless endeavor.
I've talked with a couple of pilots who've flown both helicopters and planes. Their advice is, if you'd like to learn how to fly, go with the plane! The former still "defies many types of logic", is much more difficult to operate, and is more accident prone to driving, and that to flying airplanes.
 
It isn't common sense, it is just plain wrong, and I have said why in detail. I believe you aren't listening.

You say that to everyone if they disagree with you. You say no one understands but you. Not clear why you are digging yourself in so deep.

but answer. if the problems are similar in difficulty, why was one solved decades ago on transistor technology, and why does one remain unsolved with the best super computers available?

Its you that is not listening. autonomous cars are orders of magnitude more difficult than planes.

1) cars are stuck to narrow paths they have to share. Planes are assigned individual paths in a volume that is several magnitudes of ten greater.
2) cars do not have predictable environments. The largest challenge with planes is landing and taking off and their environments are 100% controlled.
3) there is no external monitors for cars. There is a world wide grid for planes.
4) At any given time there are approximately 6,000 planes in the air, at peak its 10,000. Contrast to cars I which at any given moment there are over 800,000 in a lot smaller volume.

all this has been pointed out to you. but its us that is not listening. too funny.

thats quite a shovel you have sir.
 
You say that to everyone if they disagree with you. You say no one understands but you. Not clear why you are digging yourself in so deep.

but answer. if the problems are similar in difficulty, why was one solved decades ago on transistor technology, and why does one remain unsolved with the best super computers available?

Its you that is not listening. autonomous cars are orders of magnitude more difficult than planes.

1) cars are stuck to narrow paths they have to share. Planes are assigned individual paths in a volume that is several magnitudes of ten greater.
2) cars do not have predictable environments. The largest challenge with planes is landing and taking off and their environments are 100% controlled.
3) there is no external monitors for cars. There is a world wide grid for planes.
4) At any given time there are approximately 6,000 planes in the air, at peak its 10,000. Contrast to cars I which at any given moment there are over 800,000 in a lot smaller volume.

all this has been pointed out to you. but its us that is not listening. too funny.

thats quite a shovel you have sir.

Nope. You repeating misinformation doesn't make it true.
 
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