Apple Accuses Spotify of 'Resorting to Rumors and Half-Truths', Sets Record Straight on App Rejection

[neohavix]

Apple is full of it when it comes to this. They own and run the App Store like the government, with plenty of deceit.

How is it that Spotify isn't labeled as an Essential app when it is the most widely used streaming music service in the world? Oh, because it competes with Apple Music? A dating app like Tinder is labeled as an Essential app, and how much do you want to bet that if Apple were to get into the dating app business they'd sink Tinder down to the bottom of the barrel in a heartbeat.

Please, delineate these things you call "...when it comes to this." If you don't like the terms and agreement of the App Store, why not create your own and have at it. Let all the developers sign up for free. Let them make all the money while you toil away your creation while investing millions of dollars to get all developers to your platform. See if it's worth it.

People have this sense of entitlement mentality. For one, none of us are entitled to anything. If you don't like something, you can always vote with your wallet. Spotify is labeled as an essential app for only those that use them...just like any other app. Spotify is certainly not essential to me. Neither is Pandora. Not even the iTunes Music is essential to me. I use iTunes because it's convenient. Easy to use.

 

[eimichan]

The walmart example is crap. It's more like how PS 4 gets a cut of everything you purchase from the PlayStation Network period.

This whole thing is about subscription services, not one-off purchases. Also, Spotify does not store any of their music on Apple's servers whereas all of the artwork DLC and soundtracks for PS Network purchaseables are stored on Sony's servers. These specific matter when it comes to unraveling the legalities. Glad you ignored the rest of my post - really demonstrates your knowledge on the topic.

 

[pcmacgamer]

Apple getting into politics and bitching to developers. Don't like the way Apple has been acting lately.

 

[LovingTeddy]

Please, delineate these things you call "...when it comes to this." If you don't like the terms and agreement of the App Store, why not create your own and have at it. Let all the developers sign up for free. Let them make all the money while you toil away your creation while investing millions of dollars to get all developers to your platform. See if it's worth it.

People have this sense of entitlement mentality. For one, none of us are entitled to anything. If you don't like something, you can always vote with your wallet. Spotify is labeled as an essential app for only those that use them...just like any other app. Spotify is certainly not essential to me. Neither is Pandora. Not even the iTunes Music is essential to me. I use iTunes because it's convenient. Easy to use.

I could build my own app and App Store. But would Apple let me to open my own App Store on iOS? Even if Apple do, Apple would still charge stupid 30% cut to my profit.

Apple is full of crap. At least, I can open my own App Store under Andriod.

 

[kdarling]

Please, delineate these things you call "...when it comes to this." If you don't like the terms and agreement of the App Store, why not create your own and have at it.

Not a valid question to that poster.

For both control and greed reasons, Apple does not allow other app stores.

--

As for "half truths", Apple should be the last to complain about a method they themselves use so often.

.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Maybe they do take a 30% cut of every payment I make for Apple Music, you don't know.

I mean, all that would be is an extra few lines in their financials before the money all wound up in the same place... What was your point, again?

Who do you propose Apple pay the 30% to? Themselves?

It's their product on their platform and they allow open competition.

Apple has a choice of payment vendor to process payments and credit cards. They can use whoever they want, through whatever system they want. Apple is actively using it's incredible position of power of being in charge of the one of two major mobile app stores to force everyone to use Apple as a payment vendor, and blocking any other payment vendor from working.

 

[kylelerner]

No, what Apple is doing is asking for 30% on your electricity bill from your power company, because you downloaded an app on Apple store. basically if you sign up using an app, apple wants 30% of what-ever for providing nothing else than the initial download. And you can't add a signup here in your app.

Not even close to the same. Not a fair comparison at all.
An "electricity company" is not a company that can sell a product in multiple stores.
But, let's pretend it was...the "electricity company," if aggravated by the storefront's charges, should sell its product elsewhere.

A better example would be to say that Apple is like a boutique store.
Let's say I make handmade shampoo that lasts about a month, and charge $10 for it if bought from me directly.
I don't have a means or desire to reach interested consumers and decide to sell it in the Apple boutique.
The Apple boutique wants to sell the shampoo for $13. If it sells, you get your $10, and Apple boutique gets $3.
The $3 upcharge is for the storefront, established customer-base, and shelf-space. Makes sense.

Sure, I could buy the shampoo directly from you for $10, but I, a handmade shampoo enthusiast, like going into boutiques to search for it; plus, I don't know you.

Every month when I run out of your handmade shampoo, I go back into the Apple boutique and buy the shampoo for $13.

If you're going to complain to the boutique and tell them that they should sell my handmade shampoo for $10, and that they should make nothing, that'd make no sense.

Why would they waste their shelf space on only benefiting you?

And as the owner of the boutique, Apple doesn't have to sell your handmade shampoo, especially if they get absolutely nothing out of it.

THAT is what's going on here. I support Apple's decision, response, and markup.

P.S. You could always tell the boutique that you'll take a $7 revenue cut if they sell the shampoo for $10.

 

[allan6666]

Please, delineate these things you call "...when it comes to this." If you don't like the terms and agreement of the App Store, why not create your own and have at it. Let all the developers sign up for free. Let them make all the money while you toil away your creation while investing millions of dollars to get all developers to your platform. See if it's worth it.

People have this sense of entitlement mentality. For one, none of us are entitled to anything. If you don't like something, you can always vote with your wallet. Spotify is labeled as an essential app for only those that use them...just like any other app. Spotify is certainly not essential to me. Neither is Pandora. Not even the iTunes Music is essential to me. I use iTunes because it's convenient. Easy to use.

I'm no expert here, but I'm pretty sure Apple prevents third party app stores from being used on their phones. If not, let's make this happen. As far as this entitlement mentality, we live in a world where a smartphone is a necesity to thrive. We have 1 of 2 choices (Apple and Android). The larger we allow these companies to get the fewer choices we will be able to make for ourselves.

 

[EricTheHalfBee]

Not a valid question to that poster.

For both control and greed reasons, Apple does not allow other app stores.

It's for security, control and customer experience.

 

[allan6666]

It's for security, control and customer experience.

At 30%, I think greed is definitely on the table.
[doublepost=1467405335][/doublepost]

It's for security, control and customer experience.

Do you work for Apple?

 

[LovingTeddy]

This would be why its a secure OS. This is why malware is impossible on the iPhone. This is why I buy iPhones. I want the walled garden so I don't have to deal with malware crap. Some of us have to deal with information security.



You are fully allowed to get direct subscriptions through third party systems. You are not allowed to advertise those third party systems and not bypass IAP. Ebay doesn't allow people to do transactions outside of Ebay to get around fees. Its the same damn thing. You don't get to use ebay and in your listing say go to my website and buy direct all purchases through ebay will be cancelled.

Good for you then. The last thing I want is someone tell me what I should install and what I should not install. The last thing I want is someone tell you that what I need and what I don't need.

If you love security and wall garden that much, then you should go report to President Cook and let him approve everything you do. Because Mr. Cook can do no wrong and you will always feel secure.

 

[thingstoponder]

Spotify can't deal with the fact that they're an irrelevant company now that Apple and Google are in the streaming services.

If you don't like the rules then pull your app.

 

[allan6666]

Spotify can't deal with the fact that they're an irrelevant company now that Apple and Google are in the streaming services.

If you don't like the rules then pull your app.

This is exactly what Apple seems to want. Do you think less competition is good for us, the consumer?

 

[cmaier]

Not a valid question to that poster.

For both control and greed reasons, Apple does not allow other app stores.

--

As for "half truths", Apple should be the last to complain about a method they themselves use so often.

.

Correct (I'd add "security" to the list). He should have suggested "create your own phone, then create your own app store for it."

 

[LovingTeddy]

Spotify can't deal with the fact that they're an irrelevant company now that Apple and Google are in the streaming services.

If you don't like the rules then pull your app.

If you don't like NSA, leave America! That is what you saying.

 

[ipwTiYon2190Y]

One problem is that by focusing on the numbers of the situation, Apple talks over customers instead of addressing them. This response is public and should have been written appropriately for the situation.

The other problem with this is Apple comes across as a company that's unappreciative of those who develop for its platforms.

I don't think Spotify was posing much harm with its statements. The legal counsel would have been better off addressing the ridiculous Tidal rumors to calm Apple investors.

 

[cmaier]

If you don't like NSA, leave America! That is what you saying.

If you're born here or otherwise a citizen, you have a right to be in America. No one has a "right" to have one's products sold in someone else's store.

 

[allan6666]

If you're born here or otherwise a citizen, you have a right to be in America. No one has a "right" to have one's products sold in someone else's store.

If there is only 1 store, maybe we need that right.

 

[kdarling]

Correct (I'd add "security" to the list).

I was in a rush to beat a thunderstorm and posted quickly, and thus distilled everything to two items.

Having "control" includes everything from, yes, app vetting for security, to blocking apps they deem unsuitable (or which compete too closely with their own), to watching for copyright violations, to pushing UI standards, to locking things down so they're the only ones with a native app store available without jailbreaking.

He should have suggested "create your own phone, then create your own app store for it."

+1

 

[allan6666]

If there is only 1 store, maybe we need that right.

That being said, the issue here is not whether something can be sold in Apple's store. The issue is whether it's fair or even legal for Apple to charge what they do to be in their store.

 

[cmaier]

If there is only 1 store, maybe we need that right.

But there isn't only one store. There is only one store for Apple's products, but Apple is only around 20% of the market. Plenty of other choices and app stores. But if you picked an iPhone, you bought into the Apple App Store ecosystem and rules - the rules are well known and no one should act surprised.

 

[montygw]

You are fully allowed to get direct subscriptions through third party systems. You are not allowed to advertise those third party systems and not bypass IAP. Ebay doesn't allow people to do transactions outside of Ebay to get around fees. Its the same damn thing. You don't get to use ebay and in your listing say go to my website and buy direct all purchases through ebay will be cancelled.

As I clearly said; Apple refuse to allow others to *direct* subscriptions through other systems.

It's not the same thing. EBay is not a subscription service and they don't sell the same competing services themselves without being subject to their own fees. They also don't charge 30%.

 

[Mosco]

https://twitter.com/jonathanmprince/status/748967657853095936

In case anyone was wondering what Spotify actually did in their app that Apple didn't like, check that tweet above.

 

[acctman]

I feel like Spotify should pull out of the Apple App Store completely. I have a feeling the result would backlash on Apple and not on Spotify. Android owns the mobile market anyways. If anything, it would make more people switch to Android. Anytime you get in between a person and their music, your asking for trouble.

That would kill Spotify as a business. Although Android may have a bigger market share, Android users tend to want things for free and where as on iOS user are willing to pay for apps. That why you see app release on iOS first and in some cases an app will be paid on iOS but free on Android

 

[allan6666]

But there isn't only one store. There is only one store for Apple's products, but Apple is only around 20% of the market. Plenty of other choices and app stores. But if you picked an iPhone, you bought into the Apple App Store ecosystem and rules - the rules are well known and no one should act surprised.

In the US apple has roughly 40% of the market. Just because they made the rules and you don't seem to care of their fairness doesn't mean they can't be openly questioned or opposed. If Android had the same policy would you have the same opinion?