Apple Accuses Spotify of 'Resorting to Rumors and Half-Truths', Sets Record Straight on App Rejection

[allan6666]

So where's your proof that it's not.

 

[skit911]

If you own an iPhone, you are.

S.A.F.A.R.I. They can distribute a basic app via safari and even have it on their home screen. They cannot however, access the COUNTLESS ERVICES AND BENEFITS OF THE IOS ECOSYSTEM. Push notifications, rich lock screen notifications and 3D Touch for example. Apple pays developers to creeate these features. Developers PAY TO USE THEM

 

[BreadofWonder]

So when does Spotify sue Apple for anti-competitive practices?

I'm sure if there was an actual legal case against them, they would. The fact that they're going this whole public letter route tells me they don't, though. Seems to me this is all just a publicity stunt.

 

[Michael Goff]

So where's your proof that it's not.

Where is my proof that it's not a scheme to put Spotify out of business? The fact that the rule was in place long before Apple was competing in the space, the fact that the rule was there before Spotify was in the store?

 

[truthertech]

Yep, if anyone doesn't see how Apple Music is not a huge advantage because it doesn't have to pay 30% more, you are seriously delusional.
Couldn't Spotify remove the in app purchase all together and have a web page to order the service?
I mean if buy something on the Amazon app, Apple doesn't get a 30% cut, do they?
Just have a Spotify store.

I'm all for Apple getting its 15%-30% if they are maintaining the customer lists, resubs, etc. but if all they are doing is getting 30%, then that isn't fair.

It is a non issue for me because anyone spending 30% more when you can just sign in on the web site deserves to get taken.

This is the Bernie Sanders' /Elizabeth Warren's world. "It's Not fair!" You want to decide for others what is "fair," based on your feelings. Why does Spotify get to charge me $9.99 a month? I'd accept $5.99 as fair.

 

[skit911]

Say you wrote a software package that requires a monthly subscription and someone bought it at Walmart. The package the person bought and paid for gives them a 1 month subscription. You got your cut from the sale, as did Walmart.

Would you have an issue if Walmart said that you must give them a cut of any subsequent monthly subscription payment, even though they already got paid for the initial sale?

This is exactly what Apple is doing.

Yes. I know. If you don't like the terms, take your product elsewhere.

No,

Where is my proof that it's not a scheme to put Spotify out of business? The fact that the rule was in place long before Apple was competing in the space, the fact that the rule was there before Spotify was in the store?

before Spotify was even a company*****

 

[EricTheHalfBee]

So where's your proof that it's not.

Oh look, a logical fallacy putting the burden of proof on someone else to prove something doesn't exist.

 

[LoMonkey]

Say you wrote a software package that requires a monthly subscription and someone bought it at Walmart. The package the person bought and paid for gives them a 1 month subscription. You got your cut from the sale, as did Walmart.

Would you have an issue if Walmart said that you must give them a cut of any subsequent monthly subscription payment, even though they already got paid for the initial sale?

This is exactly what Apple is doing.

Yes. I know. If you don't like the terms, take your product elsewhere.

This is Apples to Oranges. Is Walmart also distributing your updates? Are they processing the payments for the subscription to a convenient billing statement for all other software your customer has purchased through Walmart, thus making people more likely to buy your product? Are they also providing peace of mind to your customers by not requiring them to give you a credit card directly, even though they have the option to? No. They sold a box and you did the rest. This is not what Apple does.

Edit: Apple also provides a way for your customers to publicly review your product, for better or worse. The public likes that. If you subscribe to a product on Amazon, do they get a cut of every time an item in the subscription ships? You bet your butt they do.

 

[robeddie]

No, what Apple is doing is asking for 30% on your electricity bill from your power company, because you downloaded an app on Apple store. basically if you sign up using an app, apple wants 30% of what-ever for providing nothing else than the initial download. And you can't add a signup here in your app.

This. For all you defemders of Apples 30%

 

[thisisnotmyname]

They have... We buy their crap phones that have access to one monopolized app store. If all developers were to boycott apple nobody would buy their phones because they'd have no ap

For me to consider Apple's stance in the matter as anything other than unfair, there would have to be competing app stores on iOS we could choose to purchase from. There are not. They have a monopoly on app store purchases of all users of the iPhone. Of course they'll charge 15-30%, they can. Spotify is no saint in the world of business, but let's be realistic... Apple charges this because they can, not because it's what it costs to maintain/or make a reasonable profit. Our antitrust laws are antiquated and need to be adapted so that their spirit still encompasses businesses of the current and future era. Lobbying is also bad. Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

And McDonald's has a "monopoly" on who can sell food in their restaurant. I think you need to look up the definition of that word.

Geez, I just fed a troll didn't I?

 

[xero9]

Someone pointed it out previously, but no one really commented on it. How is it that Uber, TicketMaster, etc can list their apps for free and sell rides or concert tickets with $0 going to Apple. But Spotify is an issue?

 

[skit911]

This. For all you defemders of Apples 30%

Get an android and ****, I can't deal with this forum anymore.
[doublepost=1467400834][/doublepost]

Someone pointed it out previously, but no one really commented on it. How is it that Uber, TicketMaster, etc can list their apps for free and sell rides or concert tickets with $0 going to Apple. But Spotify is an issue?

IAP and subscription payments only. The app is but a reflection of their online store with an improved UX

 

[BreadofWonder]

Amazon has not released a prime app for appleTV (used it on my google TV all the time)
Its annoying, but i like my appleTV so much that I'm keeping it

It's not on Google TV's replacement, Android TV, though. I believe the only set-top boxes that have it are Roku and, of course, Amazon's Fire TV.

 

[truthertech]

They have... We buy their crap phones that have access to one monopolized app store. If all developers were to boycott apple nobody would buy their phones because they'd have no ap

For me to consider Apple's stance in the matter as anything other than unfair, there would have to be competing app stores on iOS we could choose to purchase from. There are not. They have a monopoly on app store purchases of all users of the iPhone. Of course they'll charge 15-30%, they can. Spotify is no saint in the world of business, but let's be realistic... Apple charges this because they can, not because it's what it costs to maintain/or make a reasonable profit. Our antitrust laws are antiquated and need to be adapted so that their spirit still encompasses businesses of the current and future era. Lobbying is also bad. Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Thank you Bernie Sanders, or is Elizabeth Warren? You will decide what is a reasonable profit for a business. Google is making billions, same with Facebook, what have you decided is a reasonable profit for them?

 

[Keirasplace]

This is Apples to Oranges. Is Walmart also distributing your updates? Are they processing the payments for the subscription to a convenient billing statement for all other software your customer has purchased through Walmart, thus making people more likely to buy your product? Are they also providing peace of mind to your customers by not requiring them to give you a credit card directly, even though they have the option to? No. They sold a box and you did the rest. This is not what Apple does.

Edit: Apple also provides a way for your customers to publicly review your product, for better or worse. The public likes that. If you subscribe to a product on Amazon, do they get a cut of every time an item in the subscription ships? You bet your butt they do.

Not only that, Wallmart doesn't provide the manufacturing capability to actually build the products in its shelf, the equivalent of an API.

People trust Apple more than Spotify (or many companies), that's why they gave their CC number to them, and NOT SPOTIFY.

 

[truthertech]

If you own an iPhone, you are.

Negative grasshopper

 

[npmacuser5]

Say you wrote a software package that you sold on the web for $29.

You want the same profit, but you want to sell it at Walmart. Walmart takes a 35% cut. Your software must cost around $49 at Walmart to give you the same profits.

Would Walmart have an issue with your software when someone opened the box there was a note that asked you to 'return this to Walmart - save $20 - and buy it over the web for $29'.

This is exactly what Spotify is doing.

Happens all the time with purchases. I have purchased many items and found a significant difference online, asked for a discount and in almost all cases they agree to price match. However, if they do not I exercise my option to return for a refund and purchase elsewhere. Commonly called "free market", with the consumers having the power to even not purchase anything until the price vs benefits meets their expectations. Do not need more regulations and rules for sure.

 

[2010mini]

I feel like Spotify should pull out of the Apple App Store completely. I have a feeling the result would backlash on Apple and not on Spotify. Android owns the mobile market anyways. If anything, it would make more people switch to Android. Anytime you get in between a person and their music, your asking for trouble.

That would hurt Spotify more than Apple. Them leaving iOS only opens the door for other streaming services. Devs make a lot more money from Apple than android.

What Spotify should do in undercut Apple Music's subscription price to lure AM customers. They would gain more users in the long run.
How do you think AM gained 15mil users in a year? They undercut everyone else's price by offering AM free for 3 months.

Apple thinks long term.

 

[Keirasplace]

Are you saying Apple is right because they wrote these unfair rules 7 years ago? Hmmm

If they are "unfair", well then it will be easy to prove it court hmmm. Spotify must have a few lawyers, and everyone sues Apple (few win), why not them...

 

[Chrisadapt]

Say you wrote a software package that you sold on the web for $29.

You want the same profit, but you want to sell it at Walmart. Walmart takes a 35% cut. Your software must cost around $49 at Walmart to give you the same profits.

Would Walmart have an issue with your software when someone opened the box there was a note that asked you to 'return this to Walmart - save $20 - and buy it over the web for $29'.

This is exactly what Spotify is doing.

Not exactly because you can't compare physical goods to digital content, let's say Spotify sold a 10 dollar gift card at Walmart well Walmart gets their fair commission from that sail but if Spotify offers the person who relieved that gift card a paid membership subscription the Walmart is not supposed to get an ongoing commission for that subscription

 

[allan6666]

If we are to use analogies of stores, I think it's only fair to say if you own

Thank you Bernie Sanders, or is Elizabeth Warren? You will decide what is a reasonable profit for a business. Google is making billions, same with Facebook, what have you decided is a reasonable profit for them?

Negative grasshopper

I may not be a botanist, but I'm pretty sure if you put water on plants, they'll grow.

 

[dguisinger]

Apple isn't arguing all Spotify's customers are from the App Store, Apple's simply saying Spotify has benefited - in some way - from 160 million downloads via Apple's distribution resources.

160 million downloads... bandwidth and storage are cheap, thats what, 100GB? 200GB? Apple doesn't let you circumvent the store to install apps, so they forced that distribution requirement on themselves. As a developer, I agree. Apple needs to back off on this 30% charge, because they are doing nothing to justify it. Especially when all these major companies who are complaining already have the payment infrastructure in place to handle payments themselves (which is typically a 2-5% fee from the processing companies, not 30%).

30% for doing nothing is extortion.
We went from the days where the carriers always got caught with their hand in the cookie jar demanding their slice of everything done on their phones, to Apple doing the same.

I normally defend Apple on everything, but f*** apple on this one.

 

[Urban Joe]

This is one hot mess. Apple will have their way untill a lawsuit determines otherwise.

Apple is a very tough competitor I will give you that.

Thankfully my bought and paid for music collection meets my needs nearly 90% of the time.

 

[truthertech]

Negative grasshopper

www.spotify.com There you go, and Apple and I won't charge Spotify 30% when you sign up.

 

[Keirasplace]

Are you saying Apple is right because they wrote these unfair rules 7 years ago? Hmmm

Not exactly because you can't compare physical goods to digital content, let's say Spotify sold a 10 dollar gift card at Walmart well Walmart gets their fair commission from that sail but if Spotify offers the person who relieved that gift card a paid membership subscription the Walmart is not supposed to get an ongoing commission for that subscription

They're using the Apple platform to do so, are you carrying Wallmart around?