Apple Activates iTunes Match Setting in iOS 5, Suggesting Imminent Launch

[Tinmania]

You still need itunes to get the movies off your device. Worse still is you need a cable to do that...

iTunes to get movies off the device? If you mean recorded camera videos (or photos) then you don't need iTunes for that.

If you mean videos recorded on the device I don't have a problem dealing with that over a cable, considering how large HD videos can be. It's not much different than having a dedicated digital camera.



Michael

 

[milo]

So if you are syncing PIM data to iCloud (or another service), have iTunes match on, are backing up to iCloud, what do you need iTunes syncing for?

I answered that in the post you replied to. You need iTunes syncing to get song lyrics (which is something they could add to Match, but they haven't yet), and you need it to get higher bitrate files onto the device. You also don't need to sync but for people who don't have really fast internet connections, Match is going to transfer music slower than syncing is (and may use a lot of unnecessary extra data, which is an issue for people with data caps at home).

Syncing wouldn't be necessary if Apple had Match grab files locally when they're available (and add lyrics support) - until they do that, people are going to wish they could sync instead of losing those music features with Match. Apple is likely going to need to either update the way Match works or enable the option to sync when match is enabled.

Here's another question - with Match, do smart playlists get updated and have "new" files loaded automatically? If not, how does the device get those files, do the songs have to be added either individually or each playlist updated manually? If it requires manual downloading, that's a step backwards from doing a single sync and getting all those files at once.

Match sounds pretty cool, but I'm not willing to give up lyrics and have to switch to a more cumbersome way of syncing smart playlists, nor have loading files take much longer.

 

[diamond.g]

iTunes to get movies off the device? If you mean recorded camera videos (or photos) then you don't need iTunes for that.

If you mean videos recorded on the device I don't have a problem dealing with that over a cable, considering how large HD videos can be. It's not much different than having a dedicated digital camera.



Michael

Right, I meant the video recorded on the device. It has to be imported into iPhoto or Aperture via USB cable currently. iTunes WiFi sync doesn't do that.

 

[Tinmania]

I answered that in the post you replied to. You need iTunes syncing to get song lyrics (which is something they could add to Match, but they haven't yet), and you need it to get higher bitrate files onto the device.

If you need to sync with iTunes for that then iTunes match is moot. As has been said many times syncing music with iTunes and iTunes match are mutually exclusive. While lyrics are nice to have I don't think it is a deal killer out of the gate. Ditto for higher bitrates. The idea is that from now on the masses have their entire music collection available to them at all times, on any (iOS) device--transparently.

Syncing wouldn't be necessary if Apple had Match grab files locally when they're available (and add lyrics support)

I am afraid I think I can say with near utmost certainty that that will never happen.


Michael

 

[mattburles]

this most likely will be out sometime this week because next week is November i dont think they would release on halloween and the last day of the month.

 

[DiamondMac]

I keep waking up and going to iTunes store expecting iTunes Match to finally be out.

 

[milo]

As has been said many times syncing music with iTunes and iTunes match are mutually exclusive.

As I've said many times I UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS, all I'm saying is that doing it that way is worse than syncing in a number of ways, and there will be users who aren't happy with it and want Apple to change or improve it.

There absolutely are advantages to syncing over match, and people aren't going to be happy if Match makes their iTunes experience at home worse. Which the current implementation does. Of course apple thinks Match is better than a basic sync, but Apple isn't always right and in this case I'm skeptical that all users will drink the kool aid.

I see two options for Apple to fix the issues. Either add the missing features to Match (including loading files from the home machine when they're available), or allow syncing when match is enabled. YES I'm perfectly aware that the two are mutually exclusive in the current implementation but Apple doesn't have to do it that way, there's no reason they couldn't change that.

I am afraid I think I can say with near utmost certainty that that will never happen.

I'm afraid I think that random anonymous people on the internet are in no position to predict what Apple will do with utmost certainty.

Apple needs to get this service right if they want it to be a hit. As it is right now I'd love to get it but it sounds like it will be a worse experience for me than the current wireless syncing. Fix it and I'll be happy to fork over my 25 bucks.

 

[Tinmania]

Right, I meant the video recorded on the device. It has to be imported into iPhoto or Aperture via USB cable currently. iTunes WiFi sync doesn't do that.

Yes recorded videos are glaringly omitted from the "in the cloud" or wireless trends. And I am liking how it works with Photos. I open iPhoto on my Mac and, presto, all my new iPhone photos are downloaded into my photo library from Photo Stream. Wish it worked for videos but I realize that would be a lot more data to be pushing around.

Back on topic. Wile I am really liking iTunes Match more and more as I use it, playlists seem to be possessed. I have had mine get wiped out several times now. That needs to be addressed or better explained what is going on as it's getting to be a pain. I make no changes, then I go to my iPhone and--wham--the playlists are empty or have only a few tracks. All of the tracks that were in the playlists are still available either on-device or in the cloud so I don't know what is going on. Worse, the gutted playlists are propagating back to iTunes on my mac. Ugh.



Michael

 

[Tinmania]

As I've said many times I UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS, all I'm saying is that doing it that way is worse than syncing in a number of ways, and there will be users who aren't happy with it and want Apple to change or improve it.

If you find syncing that much better no one is preventing you from doing so. Why get upset over something that has not been taken away in any form? And you can still sync music over WiFi so it is still better than pre-iOS5.

I know you want it both ways but that is simply not how it works right now. It might come, who knows. But it's not you are forced to use iTunes match. You can keep on syncing to iTunes, even via USB, and you will not be detrimentally affected.

I'm afraid I think that random anonymous people on the internet are in no position to predict what Apple will do with utmost certainty.

If you think Apple, in 2011 or later, is going to go through the trouble of creating a solution for USB to be used for downloading iCloud music--that just might be on the connected computer as well--I would say go right ahead. I won't hold my breath though.

Even under WiFi there is little point to it. If you want access to the local iTunes music you already have it via Home Sharing.



Michael

 

[milo]

If you find syncing that much better no one is preventing you from doing so.

Of course. My point is that a new service isn't going make users as happy (and do as well) if there are a number of ways that it works worse than the old way. I don't see why that's so hard to understand.

If you think Apple, in 2011 or later, is going to go through the trouble of creating a solution for USB to be used for downloading iCloud music...

Go to the trouble? The functionality of getting music files from a computer to a mobile device (either via USB cable or wireless sync, let's not forget that feature that was just released) already exists, it's not like they'd have to create new code for that.

Really, it's not rocket science. The ability to transfer files from a local computer exists. They're adding the ability to transfer files from a server. Going the next step to get files from the local computer when it's available isn't a huge leap. The whole thing seems nonsensical, all the files are sitting right there on a hard drive available for a quick transfer, and instead they're going to spend hours downloading gigs of that same data again over the internet? It's absurd.

Not to mention that since there's no iCloud functionality for videos, anyone who watches them is still going to need to sync anyway to get them on the device.

If you want access to the local iTunes music you already have it via Home Sharing.

But using home sharing doesn't support playlists, ratings, or syncing files to the device, right?

 

[Tinmania]

Go to the trouble? The functionality of getting music files from a computer to a mobile device (either via USB cable or wireless sync, let's not forget that feature that was just released) already exists, it's not like they'd have to create new code for that.

Of course it would require new code. If you are tapping a song in the Music app it, as of right now, retrieves it from the device or from iCloud. There would need to be a boatload of code to then: a.) change direction if iTunes computer is present, b.) check to see if track is on that computer, c.) pull it in seamlessly as if it were coming from iCloud. And do that over USB too? Sure.

I stand by my original assertion 100%: Will never happen.

But using home sharing doesn't support playlists, ratings, or syncing files to the device, right?

It supports playlists but you cannot copy tracks to the device. That would be FAR easier functionality to add, however, compared to the above scenario.



Michael

 

[milo]

Of course it would require new code. If you are tapping a song in the Music app it, as of right now, retrieves it from the device or from iCloud. There would need to be a boatload of code to then: a.) change direction if iTunes computer is present, b.) check to see if track is on that computer, c.) pull it in seamlessly as if it were coming from iCloud. And do that over USB too? Sure.

Let's see, what functionality already exists in iTunes/iOS...

a) Awareness of whether the computer hosting iTunes library is present (either usb or wireless)? Yep, there already.
b) Able to see if the track is in the iTunes library? Yep, there already.
c) Load file from iTunes library? Yep, there already.

Right now an iOS device can get a music file from a computer, either via the USB cable or over wifi. I'm not sure why you think having Match activated makes that code cease to exist, as opposed to Apple disabling that functionality by choice. None of what you describe is new functionality at all, it's stuff that has been there for years that apple is just shutting off in an effort to push usage in a particular direction. I'm skeptical that users are that willing to take that push if it means a worse user experience in some respects (which it does, at this point nobody is arguing otherwise).

You may be right, that apple never makes these fixes. But I'd argue that if they don't, there's a good chance that Match is a flop (like what happened with Mobile Me, and what seems like a good possibility with iCloud so far).

I'm just one example. Right now I can do a large sync in a matter of minutes, if all the songs are being re-downloaded off the internet, that's potentially hours. That's enough to keep me from spending that $25 I'd otherwise love to give to Apple (and that's not the only flaw). And I'm sure I'm not the only user in that situation.

Apple doesn't have to listen to users (and testers), they can absolutely do what they want. But on the flipside, users don't have to buy what they're selling, just because Apple puts something out and insists on forcing users to work a certain way doesn't mean it's going to be a success.

 

[Tinmania]

Let's see, what functionality already exists in iTunes/iOS...

a) Awareness of whether the computer hosting iTunes library is present (either usb or wireless)? Yep, there already.
b) Able to see if the track is in the iTunes library? Yep, there already.
c) Load file from iTunes library? Yep, there already.

Right now an iOS device can get a music file from a computer, either via the USB cable or over wifi. I'm not sure why you think having Match activated makes that code cease to exist, as opposed to Apple disabling that functionality by choice. None of what you describe is new functionality at all, it's stuff that has been there for years that apple is just shutting off in an effort to push usage in a particular direction. I'm skeptical that users are that willing to take that push if it means a worse user experience in some respects (which it does, at this point nobody is arguing otherwise).

You may be right, that apple never makes these fixes. But I'd argue that if they don't, there's a good chance that Match is a flop (like what happened with Mobile Me, and what seems like a good possibility with iCloud so far).

I'm just one example. Right now I can do a large sync in a matter of minutes, if all the songs are being re-downloaded off the internet, that's potentially hours. That's enough to keep me from spending that $25 I'd otherwise love to give to Apple (and that's not the only flaw). And I'm sure I'm not the only user in that situation.

Apple doesn't have to listen to users (and testers), they can absolutely do what they want. But on the flipside, users don't have to buy what they're selling, just because Apple puts something out and insists on forcing users to work a certain way doesn't mean it's going to be a success.

I gather you are not a programmer. That's fine. But what you are trivializing is not so trivial.

I'm done arguing. If you think that will ever happen feel free to wait. Apple traditionally moves forward, not back. Go ahead and request RS-232 iTunes Match syncing while you are at it.

I posted in this thread because as an iOS and OS X developer I had early access to iTunes Match and thought I could shed light on some apparent misconceptions about what is and what is not possible.


Michael

 

[milo]

Apple traditionally moves forward, not back.

Except that Match IS a step back in a number of ways, slower syncs, missing functionality, fewer user options.

And I'm not asking for support of anything outdated. Wireless sync just appeared weeks ago, and getting a file from a local hard drive is definitely not a step back from having to get that same file downloaded over the internet. No question Apple's "new and cool" fetish has them thinking it's "better" but that doesn't change the fact that it's change for the sake of change as opposed to change for the better.

 

[diamond.g]

Except that Match IS a step back in a number of ways, slower syncs, missing functionality, fewer user options.

And I'm not asking for support of anything outdated. Wireless sync just appeared weeks ago, and getting a file from a local hard drive is definitely not a step back from having to get that same file downloaded over the internet. No question Apple's "new and cool" fetish has them thinking it's "better" but that doesn't change the fact that it's change for the sake of change as opposed to change for the better.

Don't forget that genius mixes are apparently unavailable.

 

[bp1000]

I have struggled to dechiper some of the info in this thread. Could someone help wih the following please

When you download music from iTunes match does it push and download to all devices like iCloud functionality?

How do you load new music? I.e put cd into iTunes, does it place the album as meta data instantly ready to stream or does it download it from iTunes match or will it still rip and store, requiring a local sync?

Can you load your own copies of CDs at your own bitrate and sync with your devices after iTunes match has been enabled. Or will they just get the iTunes match 256 AAC version?

I do think it is a bit short sighted of apple to not allow local USB syncing. I have about 6 devices in my house, to have to download an album several times for these devices does seem like a waste of bandwidth for apple and me.