Apple Actively Working to 'Double Down' on iCloud Encryption

[doelcm82]

i disabled it on my iDevices as it takes way too long to restore from iCloud anyway. Ill just keep making a local backup before doing anything to my device

I almost never connect my iPhone to my computer any more. Using iCloud backups is the more convenient solution for me. Normally, I only do a restore once every other year, so that extra time doesn't factor into the decision. If I lost my iPhone (another very rare occurrence) and had to replace it early, I'd rather have a recent iCloud backup than a months-old local backup.

Before restoring to a new phone, you should choose the option to make a local encrypted backup. That's only partly for your privacy. Some data on your iPhone won't be included in an unencrypted backup. The data in an iCloud backup is even less. There's even some data that won't be transferred in an encrypted backup.

About backups in iCloud and iTunes
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Doubling down, skeuomorphism, price point, form factor - can we do away with these clever expressions?

Can we do away with emoticons, too? That would be plusgood.

 

[Gutwrench]

Ok.

 

[RightMACatU]

antagonize law enforcement

Yikes... Ever watched movies with Steven Seagal, JC Van damn & Mel Gibson playing cops? No one wants to "antagonize law enforcement"

 

[rdlink]

I want to make it as hard as possible for anyone to invade my privacy. No one should be able to enter my house and look through my old photo albums and take them. However, robbers do this. The government also does this with a proper search warrant. No one should be able to enter my digital house and look at my pictures and take them. Hackers can do this. The government should be able to do this with proper search warrants. The question is how to enable the government without enabling hackers. I am for lots of security and support apple in its drive to improve security and encryption. But we should have a conversation on how best to allow legal search and seizure request by law enforcement. Right now it's either/or, but there must be a way to get to both/and. The current back door suggestion by the FBI is not the right answer, but one does exist if we work collaboratively.

I don't know why you think that the government has some moral right to search your digital life. There was a time when you were vulnerable to the government looking at your stuff if they had a valid search warrant. Now, because of the digital age there is the possibility that they won't be able to look into your digital life. This is called progress. And that is a good thing. Not a bad thing.

 

[Northgrove]

I'm sure they're "doubling down" on iCloud encryption.

And I'm sure it'll be a major selling feature of some new product, or just another way to force people to upgrade to the latest greatest (*cough*) version of iOS.

Remember folks, everything Apple does is to make money. If they could give the FBI what they wanted without tanking the whole company, they would.

-SC

Sure, it's part of Apple's business model. That's why this is working out so brilliantly for us. Apple is a company where they have to care a LOT for their brand value, being in the business of selling premium gear. So the customer care is there. As you say, ultimately for financial reasons, sure. Combine this with a business model based on not selling user data like certain other companies, but rather selling hardware. Since there is no longer a motive to sell data, they can try to differentiate themselves from some competitors in going so far that they don't even want to be able to access user data.

Sure, everything here is about business models and money in the end. The brilliance in it lies in that it is a business model only working if their users are well protected and satisfied. I'm very happy for this and in recent years have started thinking this is a large part behind Apple's success. Many think it is just about brainwashing and distortion fields, but most big companies have very well paid marketers and Apple should not be special here.

 

[Jess13]

I imagine FBI reading this story, eyes twitching like this chef on Kitchen Nightmares:

Watch from 18:29 to 18:37

For me it starts @ 18:42, past the timestamp?​

 

[newdeal]

therein lies the problem with the cloud. Once your data isn't stored on your physical device it is much more likely to fall into someone else's hands

 

[Phil A.]

Before restoring to a new phone, you should choose the option to make a local encrypted backup. That's only partly for your privacy. Some data on your iPhone won't be included in an unencrypted backup. The data in an iCloud backup is even less. There's even some data that won't be transferred in an encrypted backup.

Whenever I upgrade my Phone or iPad, I restore it from the iCloud backup and haven't noticed anything missing - what specifically are you referring to?

 

[sshambles]

You can't. Encryption is a surprisingly absolute thing. You either have it, or you don't. Brilliant encryption, that can only be broken by a key that a government has, isn't brilliant encryption. The government has to accept that there are some things they can't control.

Truth. Though they absolutely won't ever accept that.

 

[AbSoluTc]

Whenever I upgrade my Phone or iPad, I restore it from the iCloud backup and haven't noticed anything missing - what specifically are you referring to?

It does not keep certain passwords (email) and some other sensitive data. Local encrypted backup is the only way to get the exact copy restored back to your phone.

I will do local backups every so often and when a major iOS update comes out. I keep iCloud backup on as a convenience/in case my phone is lost/damaged. It takes way too long to restore from iCloud. Especially when I have over 5000 photos and videos. It takes nearly 8-10 hours vs 15 minutes via local restore.

 

[marine0816]

So Apple is really protecting pedophiles, murders and Isis? So you telling me Apple would be protecting these criminal's footage of the killing a cop? http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/15/us/maryland-police-officer-killed/index.html

The fourth amendment is not absolute...

 

[bbeagle]

I'm sure they're "doubling down" on iCloud encryption.

And I'm sure it'll be a major selling feature of some new product, or just another way to force people to upgrade to the latest greatest (*cough*) version of iOS.

Remember folks, everything Apple does is to make money. If they could give the FBI what they wanted without tanking the whole company, they would.

-SC

You're so wrong, it's sad.

 

[doelcm82]

You can't. Encryption is a surprisingly absolute thing. You either have it, or you don't. Brilliant encryption, that can only be broken by a key that a government has, isn't brilliant encryption. The government has to accept that there are some things they can't control.

If the government has a legal warrant and searches your home, it doesn't mean that they will find what they are looking for. If you have a secret hiding place, or an entire sub-basement, they might miss it in their search. Or they could find an important document, but not know what it means. Or they could find the ashes of that document in your fireplace.

In world where nearly every conversation we have leaves a digital footprint that we can never be sure is gone, we're at risk of losing the privacy that our grandparents took for granted. Our phones and our cars keep a record of where we are, and where we've been. They record where we spend our money. It's a gold mine that Detective Joe Friday, Boris and Natasha, and Darrin Stevens and Gladys Kravitz never had access to. I think we need encryption to level the playing field, and to allow us to keep some of our lives private from nosy neighbors, advertising agencies, spies, and even law enforcement.

 

[SirCheese]

You're so wrong, it's sad.

And yet, he's not. Go figure.

 

[Gymgenius]

Is it any more complicated than encrypting each device's icloud backup data using a password specified by the user on that device?

To restore a backup of that device - supply the password that was used to encrypt it.

 

[DevNull0]

If they double down the same way they did on secrecy, they may as well just take away authentication and let anybody long in to any account.

 

[doelcm82]

You're so wrong, it's sad.

The cool part is that it doesn't matter if he's wrong or right. If Apple really does increase the security of our digital lives, then whether they did it for profit is irrelevant.

The "Bill of Rights" and the rest of the U.S. Constitution could be seen as just a marketing ploy by a government that would turn around in a few years and pass the Alien and Sedition Acts, and later the Patriot act. A government that actually supported the system of slavery for many decades, and Jim Crow laws for decades after that.

Does that mean the Constitution means nothing? That's not the conclusion I would come to.

 

[zioxide]

So Apple is really protecting pedophiles, murders and Isis? So you telling me Apple would be protecting these criminal's footage of the killing a cop? http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/15/us/maryland-police-officer-killed/index.html

The fourth amendment is not absolute...

You don't get it.

Apple is protecting innocent users of their products from identity theft, data theft, hackers, etc.

Due to the limitations of math, a side effect of that is that we might not be able to search the phones of a few bad guys. That's something we just will have to deal with.

You don't put nearly a billion innocent users at risk to attempt to catch a few crooks. That's one of the most ridiculous ideas ever.

 

[coolfactor]

I want to make it as hard as possible for anyone to invade my privacy. No one should be able to enter my house and look through my old photo albums and take them. ... No one should be able to enter my digital house and look at my pictures and take them. Hackers can do this. The government should be able to do this with proper search warrants.

One big difference is that iCloud is a digital storage locker in someone else's house (Apple's).

 

[doelcm82]

Whenever I upgrade my Phone or iPad, I restore it from the iCloud backup and haven't noticed anything missing - what specifically are you referring to?

Follow the link (or just google the phrase, which will take you to the same place):

About backups in iCloud and iTunes.

 

[coolfactor]

I'm sure they're "doubling down" on iCloud encryption.

And I'm sure it'll be a major selling feature of some new product, or just another way to force people to upgrade to the latest greatest (*cough*) version of iOS.

Remember folks, everything Apple does is to make money. If they could give the FBI what they wanted without tanking the whole company, they would.

-SC

You're not wrong — it's good for business — but we all know that Apple still shares true principles beyond what many other companies have. This has been echoed many times over the years. There's a reason that Apple has garnered the success that they have — because people trust them. Are they perfect? No. Are they selfish? Yes. But they still have good principles... principles that lead the company down a path of continued growth, led by smart leadership.

 

[convergent]

Good for Apple! I am a fan of Apple's products and have been for a long time... because of their great quality, support, and "it just works" approach to things. But I have not sided with a lot of their political moves. I'm really surprised that they are taking on this battle against the current administration, who's been overreaching non-stop. I think this is awesome that Apple is going this far to protect our right to privacy... a real right, and one that most companies would have caved on a long time ago. Apple has an infinite war chest to take on this fight, and I'm hopeful they will win this one big.

 

[supremedesigner]

Good.

It's about time. I am sure they already doubled down on it before it reached to the news like this one. Looking forward to Apple's event and should be really interesting if Tim / Apple talks about FBI, etc.

@MacRumors this is off topic but how many posts (see bold below) did you created so far since FBI vs Apple in the beginning of 2016?

Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

 

[convergent]

I'm sure they're "doubling down" on iCloud encryption.

And I'm sure it'll be a major selling feature of some new product, or just another way to force people to upgrade to the latest greatest (*cough*) version of iOS.

Remember folks, everything Apple does is to make money. If they could give the FBI what they wanted without tanking the whole company, they would.

-SC

Really, a public company does everything to make money? Who would have thought? You do understand how companies work, right? People invest in them to get a return on their investment. That kind of requires that the company earn money or they won't have any investors? Or were you under the misunderstanding that Apple was a non-profit organization?

And factually, Apple does not do everything they do to make money. They have a lot of "green" policies that expect cost them more than they get back, other than some intangible goodwill factor.

In this case they could have easily honored the FBI's request and no one would have known they did it. So they've chosen to spend a lot of money on lawyers and step into a politically charged battled against the government, that in the US at least will have probably as many people against as are for. They will lose some customers over it that disagree with their position, and gain some that agree. The net of it is that this will cost them more than they gain. This is a fight based on principle in my opinion.

 

[marine0816]

You don't get it.

Apple is protecting innocent users of their products from identity theft, data theft, hackers, etc.

Due to the limitations of math, a side effect of that is that we might not be able to search the phones of a few bad guys. That's something we just will have to deal with.

You don't put nearly a billion innocent users at risk to attempt to catch a few crooks. That's one of the most ridiculous ideas ever.

I don't think you get it.. Pretty clear

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitutionprovides, "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."