I’m not worried about this, Im worried when it trickles down to having pictures of “assault rifles“, ”anti-vax” memes, Biden parodies, AOC memes, Winnie the Poo memes, etc.
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Apple Addresses CSAM Detection Concerns, Will Consider Expanding System on Per-Country Basis
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They can. Apple is going to start scanning more than just photos. They are laying the foundation with the on device aspect.
Hmm… but hello Android means that it scans even more of your stuff. No one can escape this.
Apple quote: “Apple also addressed the hypothetical possibility of a particular region in the world deciding to corrupt a safety organization in an attempt to abuse the system, noting that the system's first layer of protection is an undisclosed threshold before a user is flagged for having inappropriate imagery. Even if the threshold is exceeded, Apple said its manual review process would serve as an additional barrier and confirm the absence of known CSAM imagery. Apple said it would ultimately not report the flagged user to NCMEC or law enforcement agencies and that the system would still be working exactly as designed.
This is not what they said a few days ago….
This is not what they said a few days ago….
That's what I'm worried about...
Then I feel like I should have the choice of whether or not this happens on my phone. That's my biggest rub with all of this. I have nothing to hide and I applaud their motivation here. I also applaud (I think...) their perceived effort to do this in a more privacy focused manner. But as I said on another thread, it feels like a huge workaround on their part that makes the process *slightly* more private, while potentially opening a huge pandora's box. The trade off is not worth it, especially when scanning on the servers for CSAM is already a widely accepted practice.
Apple mentioned human review. What legally qualifies the Apple employee to review pictures and make a legal ascertain to possibly move forward to the next step of policy? Apple hasn't spoken about that aspect that I have seen.
Great point.
"Hmm, this disgusts me but technically isn't CSAM... but it disgusts me so I think I should report it anyway."
By buying the phone and agreeing to the current terms of use, you are being given a choice. I know that comes across as trite but, it is still the truth.
I don't like the on device scanning, either. Apple is up to more than what they are telling us. And that fact that this is going cross-platform tells me we will probably see scanning of text in iMessage next, as a lot of sick predators use that method as well to gain access to innocent kids. Add to that the fact that Apple has all but said they will make changes to this new process across governments tells me Apple is opening Pandora's box with their well-meaning intention.
I have no problem with Apple legally protecting themselves in the cloud. Scanning on device is taking things too far, in my opinion.
I know. That's ultimately what it boils down to whether I like it or not. If you don't like it, use another ecosystem. The general public won't care as long as it doesn't disrupt their day to day habits on their phones. It will likely, and unfortunately, only be the "screeching minority" making a justified fuss about this.
I've never been a hater of Android and Samsung's Knox system does allow me some additional work related options I can't do on an iPhone... #pondering
Yes it is. iCloud Photos is a service to privately and securely store my personal photos. Designed that they're available only to me - unless I optionally and selectively make them available to friends and family. Just as renting an apartment.
When I'm renting an apartment (or storage space), I'm storing my personal belongings on a third party's property.
It still is private and not subject to warrantless searches and surveillance.
That's well-defined by law. And if the law makes a different definition for my digital "home" (which iCloud can well be compared to) and storage space, then I'm arguing it shouldn't be treated differently than a physical home. That's the point I was making - though obviously just personal opinion.
Assume my iPhone runs iOS 14 and I'm perfectly happy the way it does this. It may become defective and still covered by warranty. I'm going to get it replaced by Apple on warranty in december 2021.
Please explain how I'll be making a choice regarding the iOS version the replacement or repaired unit provided by Apple will run?
I am not saying punishing possession does nothing to curb abuse.
There is however a pretty obvious and direct causality that scanning for explosives reduces planes blown up that doesn't apply to mere possession of pictures.
If we were to apply the same principle of causality through incentivising and demand, the US should ban hand guns and institute routine preventive scans for hand guns in public.
Are you saying that depictions of child abuse are totally OK, fine, no issue ...as long as they're just (realistically) staged or computer-generated rather than actually filmed?
If not, then no, I'm not limiting my comparison to snuff movies. Violence is violence.
As a side note, it's not just few horror movies coming from the US that I find gruesome and despicable in their depiction of torturous violence. I wouldn't be surprised if many commercially produced ones are more graphic in nature than the average neighbourhood snuff movie from someone's basement.
One theory raised by Daringfireball is that Apple is laying the foundation for encryption of iCloud. Once this is done, Apple won't be able to scan iCloud anymore, but they would also like to be able to confidently tell law enforcement that they are fairly certain there is no child pornography stored inside. Hence, the next best compromise is to scan your photos prior to uploading them to ensure that they are clean.
Yes I understand this. But they're still making the choice to use my device to bridge that gap without me having any say in it. And that thread even admits more discussion will need to be had about the bigger picture implications of doing this.
That's a pretty optimistic take. I guess it's feasible. But why wouldn't Apple say that as a part of their narrative around this?
I am still in the fact gathering stage etc. I don't want to make a rash, uninformed decision and forum announcement like some here may have done.
Apple: "We will not add backdoors for governments"
Also Apple: "We just added a backdoor for governments"
Also Apple: "We just added a backdoor for governments"
Analysis:
1 - There are agendas trying to get Apple to add "reporting" features, today it's going to report pedos, tomorrow it's going to report citizens who spread "misinformation" - hello, 2020 should have made this clear to everyone.
2 - Using false threats to get people to go along with the agenda is as old a tactic as humanity - Julius Cesar used this tactic, and every government or deep state actor ever since used it.
'Hey there's a "pandemic", let's quickly alter the reporting to pandemic deniers, they're dangerous people. '
3 - Naive and gullible people both inside and outside Apple are sold on the "good intentions" of the story. Yeah, right. Really think Apple will solve SRA and Tom Hanks? They're in the middle of all of it.
4 - Even with the best intentions where does Tim Cook think this is leading? It makes Apple a law enforcement agency. Maybe it's hubris? Maybe they want to rule the world? What's next? It's obvious that once Apple starts making political decisions, this never ends. As others mentioned, what if China says, scan the pix for misinformation? Apple has to comply or else. So having the capability is a very bad idea.
Horrific idea. Clearphone and Freedom phone are on my shopping list, it's obvious I have to diversify out of Apple.. after 20+ years. I hope Tesla makes a phone - they have the software chops to compete.
google.. well nobody even expects Google to be anything other than a CIA department. Apple was different. *was*.
1 - There are agendas trying to get Apple to add "reporting" features, today it's going to report pedos, tomorrow it's going to report citizens who spread "misinformation" - hello, 2020 should have made this clear to everyone.
2 - Using false threats to get people to go along with the agenda is as old a tactic as humanity - Julius Cesar used this tactic, and every government or deep state actor ever since used it.
'Hey there's a "pandemic", let's quickly alter the reporting to pandemic deniers, they're dangerous people. '
3 - Naive and gullible people both inside and outside Apple are sold on the "good intentions" of the story. Yeah, right. Really think Apple will solve SRA and Tom Hanks? They're in the middle of all of it.
4 - Even with the best intentions where does Tim Cook think this is leading? It makes Apple a law enforcement agency. Maybe it's hubris? Maybe they want to rule the world? What's next? It's obvious that once Apple starts making political decisions, this never ends. As others mentioned, what if China says, scan the pix for misinformation? Apple has to comply or else. So having the capability is a very bad idea.
Horrific idea. Clearphone and Freedom phone are on my shopping list, it's obvious I have to diversify out of Apple.. after 20+ years. I hope Tesla makes a phone - they have the software chops to compete.
google.. well nobody even expects Google to be anything other than a CIA department. Apple was different. *was*.
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Because they’re a privacy oriented company and don’t want to access your data outside your phone.
Similar to how they scan for faces and memories on device they do this on the phone so Apple themselves do not need access your pictures.
But somehow their approach is completely misunderstood and interpreted as mass on-device surveillance.
it would have been better if they announced end-to-end encryption for iCloud photos at the same time. Then their decision would have made much more sense.
They have every right to access and scan photos on their Cloud. Your first sentence doesn't jive with what Apple has already been doing.
edited to remove an error on my part.
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And here is the Facebook version of "encryption": https://www.theinformation.com/arti...to-bring-together-two-foes-encryption-and-ads
Apple's remains slightly better IMHO.
Apple's remains slightly better IMHO.