Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Adds Push Notification Data to Law Enforcement Guidelines
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
But, let me ask you a question: do you have any mean to link that user ID (I guess it’s just a number) to their real identity?
For those that opted in to marketing I could technically see the e-mail address which in most cases is the name of a person (as an Admin)
Some apps I have cellular data turned off to stop the ads and I don't have home WiFi but I bet these silent push can't be disabled because that's under system cellular data. Am I right?
It’s a delicate balance. We absolutely want the government to catch the horrible people they are legitimately going after the vast majority of the time. We just don’t want to get caught in the crosshairs.
Thank god for Ron Wyden. We need more like him. This stuff needs some oversight by people who actually have the public’s interest at heart. Even well meaning people can get tunnel vision about things.
But why do you say that this is on Apple. My understanding is that it is the responsibilities of the developers to decide if they use 3rd party libraries that allow tracking of users. And in this case it is only information on your app usage. Am I to understand that you want them to ban 3rd party libraries?
Agreed, but there are checks and balances in place. The people working for the government are very aware, even where people keep their profiles open as a government law enforcement representative, one can't just keep looking at them. Let alone when they closed.
It is easy to get overly concerned about this, but this isn't about carte blanche sending all notifications to some big database for everyone. Just need to have a good working and clear process in place for when it is necessary.
Opt in Only if it was up to me. I (or the government) could do profiling once you have access to the analytics tools
You can send as many push notifications — including silent push notifications — as you’d like, but if the user doesn’t have notifications enabled for your app, they will not be delivered. (In addition, even if a silent push notification is delivered, it’s not guaranteed that iOS will actually execute the app code to handle said silent push.)
Very true, but that is why we can't just leave it to "well meaning" people. We must stand on principles and the rights enshrined in the Constitution. The idea that we can just find the right people and everything will be on the up an up is forgetting the fact that humans are inherently flawed. We have to accept that horrible people might get away so that the other 95% can live free of tyranny.
NO More apple privacy and protecting its customer data it was all I lie
It’s pretty misleading to say that you can “see anything a user does” with the notification API.
Is the US classified as unsafe for our data? Is it really? Would you like to reconsider in light of the EU-US Data Privacy Framework and the GDPR Adequacy Decision?
PS. You do realize that a normal process is required to get this data.It's not like Trump or Biden can just say give me contacos push notifications. Very similar to how the EU, and UK, and any other civilized country operates.
The US was certainly considered unsafe for data storage prior to 2016. An accord called "Safe Harbour" was in effect that put obligations on US data processors to adequately protect user's data, but this was found to be lacking in 2015. I recall a big panic in our UK company to get cloud data off US servers.
Safe Harbour was replaced by "Privacy Shield" in 2016. Which Trump scrapped in 2017, because he only cares about the data of Americans. Biden scrapped Trump's directive in 2021.
It all has such a rag-bag history, I'm not sure what the current state of play is.
Seriously? Once we get to see data on this, I’ll bet that quite a few EU countries are the ones requesting that data… “spying” is more important than “privacy”…
So as a resident of the EU (as you state in your first reply) you are ok with this type of “spying”? Wow, wow, all I can say
More like a step parent butting into your business because well.. they can for as long as they can ..
Apparently Google has stricter safety for users on this? Because they require a court order and Apple only requires a subpoena? That's a HUGE problem
I understand you can see what the user does within the app, but that is where it stops correct? The app can't target the user's location without direct permissions. The app can't access the microphone without the user's direct permission. The app can't intercept other apps communications.
From an app developer standpoint I understand wanting to see user interactions to make the app better, etc... but how does knowing has an app or opened it really give anyone much information?
Am I missing the problem? Does this somehow expose some piece of private information tangentially?
Certainly not too much of a fan of this. I'd still rather have governments "spy" on me rather than private companies that may be hacked or lose or sell your data. This can of course also happen to governments and it has already in the past because their infrastructure s*cks and they often can't (or don't have the resources to) pull the technical personnel and expertise.
In addition, it's more "rational" as a government to govern a state with more data, it will be more stable and more secure, but only if you don't have psychopaths in office, which is sadly often the case. We never know how this power may be abused in the future. Just imagine internet would have existed while Hitler lived.
Maybe superior things would have been possible. With AI, this will be even more so. Just think about technology that already exists and that 1) can read your mind or what you're seeing, through brain signal alone, 2) tell if you're homosexual with the help of only a photo of you (maybe you didn't even know you were, and hopefully you don't live where they're being stoned for this), 3) can predict your personality traits by the means of facial traits, including characteristics you didn't even know you had (meaning someone could know you better then yourself and that could also mean more power asymmetry in society, it could mean that we can identify potentially criminal people for example). All of this technology already exists.
So there is a lot of risks, but a lot of potential too, not just again terrorism etc., but also to manage societies and the global population (diseases, agriculture and global nutrition, transport, etc.).
In addition, it's more "rational" as a government to govern a state with more data, it will be more stable and more secure, but only if you don't have psychopaths in office, which is sadly often the case. We never know how this power may be abused in the future. Just imagine internet would have existed while Hitler lived.
Maybe superior things would have been possible. With AI, this will be even more so. Just think about technology that already exists and that 1) can read your mind or what you're seeing, through brain signal alone, 2) tell if you're homosexual with the help of only a photo of you (maybe you didn't even know you were, and hopefully you don't live where they're being stoned for this), 3) can predict your personality traits by the means of facial traits, including characteristics you didn't even know you had (meaning someone could know you better then yourself and that could also mean more power asymmetry in society, it could mean that we can identify potentially criminal people for example). All of this technology already exists.
So there is a lot of risks, but a lot of potential too, not just again terrorism etc., but also to manage societies and the global population (diseases, agriculture and global nutrition, transport, etc.).
Last edited:
Lol. The naivete. The horrible people are ones DOING this and lying to your face that’s it for your own protection. You should be 1000 times more concerned about these tyrants than the “horrible people” they protect you from
Why would you rather have a government spy on you that can ruin your life in an instant vs. a company show you an ad? I can’t believe people don’t think these things through