Apple Advertising in Post-Contract Era

[AdamskiUK]

Already in the UK, if you're even mildly intelligent, you'd've realised that buying on contract is a huge rip-off. We can buy iPhones outright from Apple, carrier-free, at £539, £619, and £699 for their respective storage options.

Buying a contract for a new iPhone is typically £47 p/m for 24 months, with *at least* £99 down, but as much as £149/199 if you're asking for the 64/128GB phones.

Sim-only plans give you more bang for your 'buck' at £10-15 p/m, and you end up saving about £150-250 over the course of your contract if you go sim-only. That also leaves you with an unlocked phone which has a higher resale value!

 

[C DM]

It is the responsibility of the customer to figure it out for ourselves despite how intentionally difficult AT&T and their sales people make it. I have to get online to research it because they are not permitted to volunteer information that will lead anyone away from the AT&T Next program.

I was in a store a few months ago trying to get my dad a new phone and they wouldn't let up on the Next program, despite it not being a good "fit" for us. $200 for an iPhone for a 2 year contract or $600 for one year. Despite whatever is "good for me" that's still not a good deal.

Isn't that how it works in most aspects of life? Don't people typically do some research on their own before buying a car or some appliances or a computer or many other things instead of just going in and simply going by the sales pitch of the salesmen? I mean there's nothing really new or strange about any of it.

 

[Sukach]

It seems like even the information online regarding AT&T Next is sparse. Can someone tell me, is there any financial benefit to buying the phone outright or paying it off early as opposed to paying it monthly? You have to pay the Next "fee" ($15/$25 depending on Mobile Share Plan) regardless of whether it is paid off or not.

 

[JustMadeThisNameUp]

Isn't that how it works in most aspects of life? Don't people typically do some research on their own before buying a car or some appliances or a computer or many other things instead of just going in and simply going by the sales pitch of the salesmen? I mean there's nothing really new or strange about any of it.

Nothing that you've said justifies AT&T's failure to communicate the cons that come with this new upgrade system that they're pushing nor their phasing out of the cheaper and already present 2 year contract system.

Do people research? Yes but it's difficult to do so when so many are spreading misinformation and let's not forget the AT&T Next program is simply not a good deal.

 

[C DM]

Nothing that you've said justifies AT&T's failure to communicate the cons that come with this new upgrade system that they're pushing nor their phasing out of the cheaper and already present 2 year contract system.

Do people research? Yes but it's difficult to do so when so many are spreading misinformation and let's not forget the AT&T Next program is simply not a good deal.

Why would a company point out some downsides of a new product or service? Where does that ever happen?

Research isn't hard and there isn't really misinformation as people just not really bothering to understand things and going on assumptions that are not always correct.

And again, Next can and is cheaper for quite a few people, but not everyone, especially those on old grandfathered plans which AT&T wants less and less people to be on as they haven't offered them in years.

 

[C DM]

It seems like even the information online regarding AT&T Next is sparse. Can someone tell me, is there any financial benefit to buying the phone outright or paying it off early as opposed to paying it monthly? You have to pay the Next "fee" ($15/$25 depending on Mobile Share Plan) regardless of whether it is paid off or not.

There's plenty of information right from the carrier. Financially paying up front or financing it over a number of months (with the option to pay off everything at any moment), works out the same, with the difference being whether you pay a large amount of money right away or over time.

The line costs and all that are separate aspects of it all and you'd need to see what applies to the plan you are on.

 

[JustMadeThisNameUp]

Why would a company point out some downsides of a new product or service? Where does that ever happen?

Research isn't hard and there isn't really misinformation as people just not really bothering to understand things and going on assumptions that are not always correct.

And again, Next can and is cheaper for quite a few people, but not everyone, especially those on old grandfathered plans which AT&T wants less and less people to be on as they haven't offered them in years.

Did you really say there isn't misinformation? Do you not understand that companies do that on a regular basis?

If you think the grandfathered plans are really what is the point of the Next program and not just a lot of money (it's all about fees and paying unsubsidized prices for the phones) then you're either just mistaken or you have an agenda that is aligned with AT&T.

 

[JustMadeThisNameUp]

There's plenty of information right from the carrier. Financially paying up front or financing it over a number of months (with the option to pay off everything at any moment), works out the same, with the difference being whether you pay a large amount of money right away or over time.

The line costs and all that are separate aspects of it all and you'd need to see what applies to the plan you are on.

Explain to me how paying $200 for a subsidized iPhone 6 up front works out the same as paying $600+ over the course of one year.

 

[C DM]

Explain to me how paying $200 for a subsidized iPhone 6 up front works out the same as paying $600+ over the course of one year.

Because you aren't paying just $200, you are paying off more monthly for it through the higher price of your plan and being locked in for 2 years to make sure you pay off that subsidy. That very misunderstanding of how it works is exactly why contracts weren't looked upon favorably by many consumers, and now that they are going away to make things more transparent people are complaining because they've been misunderstanding how it all works from the beginning.

 

[C DM]

Did you really say there isn't misinformation? Do you not understand that companies do that on a regular basis?

If you think the grandfathered plans are really what is the point of the Next program and not just a lot of money (it's all about fees and paying unsubsidized prices for the phones) then you're either just mistaken or you have an agenda that is aligned with AT&T.

Ah, yes, throwing accusations of someone having an agenda...a true sign of not having an argument that can be held up.

 

[JustMadeThisNameUp]

Because you aren't paying just $200, you are paying off more monthly for it through the higher price of your plan and being locked in for 2 years to make sure you pay off that subsidy. That very misunderstanding of how it works is exactly why contracts weren't looked upon favorably by many consumers, and now that they are going away to make things more transparent people are complaining because they've been misunderstanding how it all works from the beginning.

In order to get a useable amount of data you're going to pay a lot. A 2 year contract was never the problem, they just jumped on what T-Mobile did which is a good deal for people and turned it around. Saying the 2 year contracts are a problem is like saying that people really had a big problem paying $30 a month for unlimited data and AT&T is doing us a favor by making it 2 gigs for $25 a month.

This isn't transparent, this is to make AT&T money not service the consumer. Make no mistake.

As for your illogical discussion about me paying the $200 to be locked into a contract as a negative you are conveniently leaving out the payment on the Next price for the phone which is a lot higher especially if you plan on leaving AT&T before the typical 2 years is up.

So tell me do you work for AT&T or are you just interning?

 

[JustMadeThisNameUp]

Ah, yes, throwing accusations of someone having an agenda...a true sign of not having an argument that can be held up.

That's a straw man fallacy you're arguing now. Everyone has an agenda, whether they work for AT&T or not.

If my argument is so poorly constructed then you should be able to refute it instead of meta-arguing a complete non-point.

 

[C DM]

That's a straw man fallacy you're arguing now. Everyone has an agenda, whether they work for AT&T or not.

If my argument is so poorly constructed then you should be able to refute it instead of meta-arguing a complete non-point.

There is no straw man or a fallacy, just you attacking someone instead of the subject itself, which just plainly shows that your argument can't stand up, otherwise you wouldn't be resorting to that. Seems like your agenda is apparently overshadowing pretty much everything.

With that, and with it being fairly clear that you don't really get the details of financing and simply ignore them when they are laid out (whether willfully or otherwise), doesn't seem like there's any point on wasting any more time on this.

 

[JustMadeThisNameUp]

There is no straw man or a fallacy, just you attacking someone instead of the subject itself, which just plainly shows that your argument can't stand up, otherwise you wouldn't be resorting to that.

With that, and with it being fairly clear that you don't really get the details of financing and simply ignore them when they are laid out (whether willfully or otherwise), doesn't seem like there's any point on wasting any more time on this.

Questioning your motive is not ad hominem. Not only is it not attacking you but I also refuted your claims in addition to questioning your motive.

You are wasting your time on this but not because of my inability to accept your fallacies and misinformation as truth but because...well as I said your fallacies and misinformation.

 

[C DM]

Questioning your motive is not ad hominem. Not only is it not attacking you but I also refuted your claims in addition to questioning your motive.

You are wasting your time on this but not because of my inability to accept your fallacies and misinformation as truth but because...well as I said your fallacies and misinformation.

What I'm talking about is the simple reality. The inability to accept it as such (whether one agrees with it or not) doesn't somehow change that reality into something else. Reality stays what it is. But it's certainly a waste of time to go over reality with those who simply won't face it (for whatever reason), and will instead go after pretty much anything else aside from that very simple reality itself, which I guess is understandable, since it's rather hard to argue with reality.

 

[JustMadeThisNameUp]

What I'm talking about is the simple reality. The inability to accept it as such (whether one agrees with it or not) doesn't somehow change that reality into something else. Reality stays what it is. But it's certainly a waste of time to go over reality with those who simply won't face it (for whatever reason), and will instead go after pretty much anything else aside from that very simple reality itself, which I guess is understandable, since it's rather hard to argue with reality.

Yes, exactly. It's impossible to inform those who want to misrepresent what is really happening for whatever fuels their agenda. There's objectivity and then there are people who want to misrepresent the facts and the reality in which we live in for whatever reason.

 

[C DM]

Yes, exactly. It's impossible to inform those who want to misrepresent what is really happening for whatever fuels their agenda. There's objectivity and then there are people who want to misrepresent the facts and the reality in which we live in for whatever reason.

Something we can agree on.

 

[maflynn]

Nothing changes. Instead of $199 they will market it as "$0 down" with the monthly payments in tiny font next to it or an asterisk to "see the monthly payments below". Ending contracts just helps Apple and the carriers sell more iPhones than ever.

You're right, contracts are still here, we're no just baying 28 dollars a month for 2 years for the iPhone instead of buying it for 199 for it.

It should save us money, but I'm rather wary of the direction of the market.

 

[yg17]

The math really isn't that difficult. I'm on the 15 GB family share plan. Let's ignore the cost of the base plan, because it's really irrelevant, and focus on one single line on it, my line and calculate the total cost of ownership of an iPhone over 2 years.

Assume I want to buy the iPhone 6 16 GB. Let's do third grade math to calculate the cost over 24 months under NEXT and under contract. I will not include sales tax as an up front cost because it's the same for both:

NEXT 18 (24 payments):
$15/month access charge for the line x 24 months: $360
$27.09/month NEXT financing for the device x 24 months: $650.16
Total cost for device and service over two years: $1010.16

2 year contract:
$199 up front charge for the phone: $199
$40/month access charge for the line x 24 months: $960
Total cost for the device and service over two years: $1159

If you're on a mobile share plan, which most people likely are because most people don't need unlimited data, then NEXT is going to be over $100 cheaper over the course of two years. I'm not trying to defend AT&T, I'm not trying to misrepresent anything. I'm just doing very basic math.

 

[C DM]

The math really isn't that difficult. I'm on the 15 GB family share plan. Let's ignore the cost of the base plan, because it's really irrelevant, and focus on one single line on it, my line and calculate the total cost of ownership of an iPhone over 2 years.

Assume I want to buy the iPhone 6 16 GB. Let's do third grade math to calculate the cost over 24 months under NEXT and under contract. I will not include sales tax as an up front cost because it's the same for both:

NEXT 18 (24 payments):
$15/month access charge for the line x 24 months: $360
$27.09/month NEXT financing for the device x 24 months: $650.16
Total cost for device and service over two years: $1010.16

2 year contract:
$199 up front charge for the phone: $199
$40/month access charge for the line x 24 months: $960
Total cost for the device and service over two years: $1159

If you're on a mobile share plan, which most people likely are because most people don't need unlimited data, then NEXT is going to be over $100 cheaper over the course of two years. I'm not trying to defend AT&T, I'm not trying to misrepresent anything. I'm just doing very basic math.

Bingo. Certainly something that can be cheaper for quite a few people. Of course not everyone by far--in particular those on older plans that are no longer offered and weren't set up to really be compatible with Next--but the advantages can there for quite a few, depending on their situation.

 

[Knight^mare]

If you're on a mobile share plan, which most people likely are because most people don't need unlimited data, then NEXT is going to be over $100 cheaper over the course of two years. I'm not trying to defend AT&T, I'm not trying to misrepresent anything. I'm just doing very basic math.

I would agree that when comparing using NEXT with Mobile Share versus 2 year contracts on Mobile Share that the 2 year contract doesn't make sense. However, many of us have grandfathered Family Share plans which are both cheaper than Mobile Share AND have unlimited data. So it's not a matter that we need unlimited data or not, its simply just cheaper for us to keep the unlimited data.

For example my plan for 3 phones costs me $132 per month (550 minute plan, 3 unlimited data plans, 20% FAN discount) but includes subsidies for 3 phones. To calculate the worth of the subsidy, AT&T pays $450 toward a new iPhone every 2 years or $18.75 per month per phone ($56.25 in my case). For Mobile Share 15GB plan it would cost me $125 per month for 3 phones (20% fan discount applies to data only). So per month I would actually save $7.00 per month on the MobileShare plan, however I'd lose the $56.25 per month on the subsidies on my 3 phones from my grandfathered Family Share Plan. Simply not a good deal for me as long as I keep upgrading phones every 2 years (which I do).

Hopefully this gives you guys an idea for why those of us with grandfathered plans are so intent on keeping our 2 year contracts. Unfortunately, the writing does seem to be on the wall and we are probably just living on borrowed time at this point.

 

[JustMadeThisNameUp]

The math really isn't that difficult. I'm on the 15 GB family share plan. Let's ignore the cost of the base plan, because it's really irrelevant, and focus on one single line on it, my line and calculate the total cost of ownership of an iPhone over 2 years.

Assume I want to buy the iPhone 6 16 GB. Let's do third grade math to calculate the cost over 24 months under NEXT and under contract. I will not include sales tax as an up front cost because it's the same for both:

NEXT 18 (24 payments):
$15/month access charge for the line x 24 months: $360
$27.09/month NEXT financing for the device x 24 months: $650.16
Total cost for device and service over two years: $1010.16

2 year contract:
$199 up front charge for the phone: $199
$40/month access charge for the line x 24 months: $960
Total cost for the device and service over two years: $1159

If you're on a mobile share plan, which most people likely are because most people don't need unlimited data, then NEXT is going to be over $100 cheaper over the course of two years. I'm not trying to defend AT&T, I'm not trying to misrepresent anything. I'm just doing very basic math.

I'm going to have to have some college level sources to back up these numbers.

 

[yg17]

I'm going to have to have some college level sources to back up these numbers.

Huh? It's all on AT&T's website. Clear as day: http://www.att.com/shop/wireless/data-plans.html

 

[jashworth03]

The math really isn't that difficult. I'm on the 15 GB family share plan. Let's ignore the cost of the base plan, because it's really irrelevant, and focus on one single line on it, my line and calculate the total cost of ownership of an iPhone over 2 years.

Assume I want to buy the iPhone 6 16 GB. Let's do third grade math to calculate the cost over 24 months under NEXT and under contract. I will not include sales tax as an up front cost because it's the same for both:

NEXT 18 (24 payments):
$15/month access charge for the line x 24 months: $360
$27.09/month NEXT financing for the device x 24 months: $650.16
Total cost for device and service over two years: $1010.16

2 year contract:
$199 up front charge for the phone: $199
$40/month access charge for the line x 24 months: $960
Total cost for the device and service over two years: $1159

If you're on a mobile share plan, which most people likely are because most people don't need unlimited data, then NEXT is going to be over $100 cheaper over the course of two years. I'm not trying to defend AT&T, I'm not trying to misrepresent anything. I'm just doing very basic math.

To throw in one more option (The option that I prefer!) - Buying The Device Full Price & Using Mobile Share
$15/month access charge for the line x 12 months: + $180
$650 one time cost for iPhone 6: + $650
Sell Back After 1 year (based off of current unlocked prices): - $400
Total cost for the device and service over 1 year: = $430

ANNNNND I can upgrade to the next phone.

If you have the money up front, buying outright and unlocking your device (higher resale value) is the hands down smartest route to go.

 

[C DM]

To throw in one more option (The option that I prefer!) - Buying The Device Full Price & Using Mobile Share
$15/month access charge for the line x 12 months: + $180
$650 one time cost for iPhone 6: + $650
Sell Back After 1 year (based off of current unlocked prices): - $400
Total cost for the device and service over 1 year: = $430

ANNNNND I can upgrade to the next phone.

If you have the money up front, buying outright and unlocking your device (higher resale value) is the hands down smartest route to go.

Unlocking would essentially be the only noticeable difference (although can be done right after the device is paid off on Next as well).