Hey, it could be your grandma, accidentally clicking the OK button within the 15-minute window. Or it could be you, for all intents and purposes of this discussion. Nothing to do with parenting, be it good or bad.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Agrees to FTC Terms Over In-App Purchases With $32 Million Settlement
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Hey, it could be your grandma, accidentally clicking the OK button within the 15-minute window. Or it could be you, for all intents and purposes of this discussion. Nothing to do with parenting, be it good or bad.
Of course we protect the stupid because every single one of us is stupid in some area of our daily lives.
We can take it to the free market extreme and just have a free for all. That would make life much easier. Instead of fine print just put up "Caveat emptor" signs everywhere.
Or to put it in kinder terms: we all make mistakes. Due to the way it's set up, this is (obviously) something that people can easily be blindsided by. How would anyone know to actively search for the solution to a problem they don't even know exists?
Though I will say that if it happens more than once, you don't deserve a refund. One time is understandable, but if your kid charges hundreds of your hard earned dollars to your iPad, you call up Apple to complain, get a refund, then do it again? Yeah, you're not too bright. It's shortsighted to place the blame on someone because they're not 100% informed. We're all ignorant about something. But once you're informed, you have no excuse.
Conversely - if Apple wants to avoid bad PR and spending resources giving tons of refunds, it's probably in their best interest to move up parental controls to a top level setting option in addition to providing better education on how to enable/disable functions of a phone which will incur additional charges on their platform. Note I didn't say in general because clearly they wouldn't be responsible for anything you bought on the internet via their browser. But their store and their apps? Yes - they should better educate their customers and not assume "it just works."
----------
On that refund call, the rep should have a script which basically says "Hi Mr. Hotpocket - I'm happy to give you a refund. Let me help you set up your phone so that you don't have this situation again." and walk through the steps.
Yeah, but it could be a trick...
In the world of clandestine astroturfing, the line between friend and enemy tend to blur. I mean you could be a triple agent like Scruff for all I know.
IF you think your going to be in that situation set it to Immediate. The onus is not on Apple to make the determination of where, when, and how you are going to be using the device. Apple gives you options, sets the default to a configuration acceptable to a broad range of customers, and lets you at YOUR DEVICE.
Oh, I thought you were talking about Apple, you know, the company who will go out of their way to make EVERY attempt at determining where, when and how I am going to be using the device. Sorry, my bad.
Last edited:
Parents need to take some of the blame
The first time IAP started fooling people - shame on developers for targeting kids - 100% their fault
The idea of IAP has ruined APP games for everyone - no good can come from it
However it is the time we are living in - and the app store CLEARLY marks IAP purchase so you are aware of the posibility
Parents can take the extra two seconds before downloading and ap to check that.
If nothing else - there is setting in general-->Restrictions that turns off IAP. If your kid uses that just turn the IAP off - problem solved
Parents who complain that they didn't know their kids were building up charges for IAP - Shame on them
(I have three kids who play on our Ipad & I phone - i can say that)
The first time IAP started fooling people - shame on developers for targeting kids - 100% their fault
The idea of IAP has ruined APP games for everyone - no good can come from it
However it is the time we are living in - and the app store CLEARLY marks IAP purchase so you are aware of the posibility
Parents can take the extra two seconds before downloading and ap to check that.
If nothing else - there is setting in general-->Restrictions that turns off IAP. If your kid uses that just turn the IAP off - problem solved
Parents who complain that they didn't know their kids were building up charges for IAP - Shame on them
(I have three kids who play on our Ipad & I phone - i can say that)
It's not really about mistakes. It's more about ignorance. I am not an expert in every area of my life. Be it the elevator or my car or my phone.
The correct, in my opinion, way to handle this is for the default to be "immediate" for the millions of ios users. Those who complain about being inconvenienced can change the setting. Those who have no idea how IAP works can be assured that "it just works". Thus the expectation of "I am making this transaction now" is fulfilled without having to later discover a 15 minute window being left open.
Better yet, the dialog box that asks for your password could include the option "remember this login for 15 minutes." If you don't select the option, it won't remember the login, and you can safely hand the iPad back to your kid. Problem solved.
Also, in-app purchases aren't the only issue. Once you've typed in your password, you can keep buying products at the iTunes Store without entering it again. So your kid could buy more apps, music, and movies, if he or she knows how.
----------
Just a little perspective here, but we are talking about 37,000 people out of tens (hundreds?) of billions of transactions.
Who have filed a claim. Probably hundreds of thousands of others just paid the bill.
This issue has received a lot of attention in the media. It's poor public relations and in the end poor business to allow Apple to look so uncaring about their customers.
Admit it, it’s you (or your family) who made the mistake! Stand up and take the responsibility. Others might be nice and help, but don’t ever take that for granted.
----------
**** happens no matter how well prepared you are. But that doesn’t mean you should have others answer for it.
----------
Everyone knows that the reality isn’t perfect, but not everyone has the habit to take their own responsibility. In fact, this country is full of atmosphere of trying to lawfully exploit others to “compensate” for losses they should answer for on their own.
37,000 who filed a claim after Apple contacted over 28 million who might have been affected.
Probably just a number that you made up.
Absolutely, it's an issue that Apple acknowledged and dealt with. They updated IAP to require a password within the 15 minute window and agreed to refund parents who were affected by the issue. Before the FTC got involved.
Calling it accidents doesnt automatically grant you the rights to have others eating up the consequence for you.
Didn't know this existed. What are people moaning about? If this setting exists, parents only have themselves to blame.
Like anything, it all depends on the situation. There are so many factors in play here, with failures to account for X on Apple's part, parents not knowing X was ever an issue, and the kids unknowingly slipping through the unaccounted for cracks to do Y, it's no one party's fault specifically, rather it's a cascading series of mistakes made by everyone involved.
The right thing to do here would've been for Apple to refund the money. No harm, no foul.
Yes, Apple received 37000 claims, multiply it with 10, or if you like, just go ahead multiply it with 100, the total affected users is still far less than 5% of the total users base.
As I said earlier, my kids have been long passed the “4 year old” range, that’s why my example no longer apply.
Were you also present for the next week when the child, now deprived of multiple sources of entertainment was that much more unsettled, unruly and harder to cope with? Were you there when your friend came home from a hard day at work, only to have his stress levels go through the roof with this bored kid constantly nagging him to use the iPhone? Were you there on day 3 when the child wore him down and he decided it was just easier to give the damn iPhone back to the child? No, of course not. Your friend had to deal with that, not you.
You don't just teach your kids things, they teach you things as well.
I see, you have an expectation to spend very few efforts on parenting. That sounds the root cause to me. It is so easy to raise (financially support) a child, when you compare it with how much time and energy you should spend in teaching him. Parents are supposed to be the sole main party who makes sure children learning well, not the society or the big companies.
No of course it doesn't.
I'm just glad Apple is now eating up the consequence of a badly-designed default that they had, purposedly or not (most likely just by virtue of not enough providence on their part), at one point implemented in their system.
"The system default is designed for the majority of the users, not for a specific minority subset."
Maybe you can answer my question. Stating how many CLAIMS Apple has is no indication of how many children (under 18) or parents own iOS devices that would determine majority/minority "settings" defaults.
Badly designed? Apple had been using the same system for 7 or so years before it became a problem. IAP added an unanticipated loophole when it proliferated in games targeting children. About a month after the loophole was recognized as a major issue, it was closed.
Unanticipated by whom? Isn't it possible Apple was well aware of the ramifications and chose to not do anything about it. I'm not saying Apple is evil by any sense. But I'm not sure you can quantify that it was unanticipated by Apple.