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Tax breaks means the tax rates were to high to start with. However, this is a way for politicians to declare how they have become "partners" with business, how government has "invested" in this business, and how it will increase "revenues" (taxes) for government.

Where I live, government has become the defacto CEO's and venture capitalists in the private sector.
 
God bless photoshop for making our businesses' skies and parking lots so pristine.

How dare you insinuate that Apple parking lots are not pristine without Photoshop. I'm sure they vacuum them daily and apply a coating of N-Hexan.
What else would Greenpeace be all bent out of shape for?
 
Nah, $250 million is chump change for Apple, they have a $100 billion in cash. With the economic recession in 2009, real estate values are still depressed, lots of value out there. Plus, Apple parlayed this into a tax break.

A horrible deal. Somehow with the current cash assets of known magnitude, corporations should be required to pay a premium. Anywhere. 35 janitorial positions? Looks like even the cleaning staff will be mostly imported from elsewhere.
No.

Apple does not put janitorial people on its payroll, they would be outsourced like security, landscaping, catering, etc. Outsourcing is standard practice for Fortune 500 companies for non-core services. The janitorial service would be selected from one of the local companies competing provide commercial housekeeping services; the Apple facility would be added to their route. Would this create new jobs? Maybe, maybe not. It would largely be outside of Apple's influence if the maintenance company lost another contract elsewhere.

A few people doing weekly landscaping outside, a couple of people doing janitorial services inside once or twice a week. A vending machine guy would drop by once or twice a week to restock the machines in the break room, plus a few security guards for each shift but not much else would be necessary for this facility.

The security company might actually see the most benefit as they would need to staff 24x7. A least one person outside (driving around in the rain, periodically walking around on foot), plus at least one security person at the lobby desk, signing for UPS deliveries, letting the janitorial crew in, etc.

This facility would probably employ 35-50 full-time IT people once it is fully operational. Three eight hour shifts, seven days a week. Most would work remotely from home, maybe show up on-site infrequently. A couple of low-level network admins would be on-site, swapping out backup tapes, performing routine hardware maintenance (e.g., vacuuming server racks), replacing failed hardware, etc. while a mid-level IT manager monitors from some control room.

Most of them probably wouldn't live in Prineville or the surrounding towns; they would probably live in Bend (which is in a different county: Deschutes). It's not like 35-50 new families moving down the street. As I said, most of them wouldn't be on site most of the time.

This building's primary benefit to Crook County would be the temporary jobs from the construction, plus a few ancillary service contracts for landscaping, janitorial, and security services. Plus the local power company(-ies) would gain a major customer.

The $150,000 of guaranteed income is a good deal for the county. Let's say Apple hires 35 employees at $50K salary, that's $1.75 million in payroll. However, it is likely that most of those 35 won't even be living in the county, so there's no way for the county to recoup $175K even at 10% local taxation. This way, the county is guaranteed a steady flow of income that they can channel to local services, despite the fact that the people who are working at the facility don't live there and will mostly be telecommuting from Bend.

If I recall correctly, Oregon doesn't even have a state income tax. The long-term windfall will be after the property tax exemption is over. Th $150K per year will tie the county over until they start collecting on property tax.

As the local officials said, this is a pretty commonplace arrangement for these type of facilities.
 
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Property taxes are typically used to pay for city services inclusive of education.

dunno where you live but here the property tax is broken down into clear mils- very easy to see how it's spent.

as for public education included: that's a good thing. you like having police, engineers and workers that have a high school education, yes? this benefits us all. it's all part of being in civilization. if you don't like it, then you are 100% free to go "Unibomber" and live in the mountains entirely alone and independent. but you won't like it.
 
The good news is that Apple can claim that this data center is "GREEN", since Oregon gets most of its power from hydroelectric power plants (42%).

Of course, Greenpeace can still claim that Apple is wantonly chopping up the poor little fishes to get power for their servers...

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Is Apple on a spending spree or is it my idea?

They gotta do something with that $80 billion in cash. After they get done building this data center, they will still have $85 billion left.

Always nice to have a positive cash flow...
 
It's not a horrible deal. Apple isn't obligated to locate a data center here. A struggling county gets an assured $150,000 a year, 35+ jobs (and 35+ well payed employees spending into the local economy) and the ability to showcase itself as a clean data center friendly site.

Apple gets a tax break.

Seriously, everyone wins.[/QUOTE]

Ehh...$150K will be just about enough to keep this place clean and safe for 12 months, with a little bit left over for the local guy in charge ( I would bet on the police chief here)....They should not get any breaks as it is detrimental to any society (economies) for one corporation to be sitting on $100B without dynamic redistribution.
 
Why didn't Apple locate in Chelan, Douglas, or Grant Counties in Washington state??

100% locally owned and produced public hydro-power. A public owned fiber optic network that is the envy of the nation at both the wholesale and retail levels.

National Geographic rated Wenatchee the best "mountain town". Not that Primeville is a bad community, however, they are not in the forefront in current technology.
 
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Tax Break

Again Rasta......Although I am a dedicated Apple user I hate to see those words Tax Break being associated with fortune 500 companies. :(
Doesn't help the economy one bit.
 
Ehh...$150K will be just about enough to keep this place clean and safe for 12 months, with a little bit left over for the local guy in charge ( I would bet on the police chief here)....They should not get any breaks as it is detrimental to any society (economies) for one corporation to be sitting on $100B without dynamic redistribution.

$150,000 a year for 15 years isn't a small chunk of change.

And if you want to "dynamically redistribute" Apple's cash reserves, whatever that means to you, you're much better off doing it in ways that besides "No, no one is ever allowed to give tax breaks as an incentive to move business into the area". Because by doing so, you've "dynamically redistributed" all technology based economic growth to places the tech companies already are, where agreements or already in place.

Or to whatever state gets rid of all corporate taxes first. That's just another glorified "Rich Get Richer" scheme. Wholesale redistribution is a national level policy, not something you can do at a local level.

Why didn't Apple locate in Chelan, Douglas, or Grant Counties in Washington state??

100% locally owned and produced public hydro-power. A public owned fiber optic network that is the envy of the nation at both the wholesale and retail levels.

National Geographic rated Wenatchee the best "mountain town". Not that Primeville is a bad community, however, they are not in the forefront in current technology.

Likely because where they're going gave them a better deal - potentially because Primeville wants to move toward the forefront of current technology. Say...by having Apple put a data center there.
 
Likely because where they're going gave them a better deal - potentially because Primeville wants to move toward the forefront of current technology. Say...by having Apple put a data center there.

I was just curious.

Power is much more expensive in Oregon, than in central Washington. The infrastructure is already here with many server farms already operating.

I wish Primeville well, it is a nice community and I am sure they would be good corporate neighbors to Les Schwab!!
 
Why didn't Apple locate in Chelan, Douglas, or Grant Counties in Washington state??

100% locally owned and produced public hydro-power. A public owned fiber optic network that is the envy of the nation at both the wholesale and retail levels.

National Geographic rated Wenatchee the best "mountain town". Not that Primeville is a bad community, however, they are not in the forefront in current technology.
My guess is some, if not all of those locations you mentioned were considered at one point by Apple, and are probably under consideration right now by other companies such as Google, Amazon, Facebook, etc.

These companies undoubtedly have a long checklist of items that they need to review:

  • Where is there a good amount of land for sale suitable for development of a server farm? What is the price of the land? Potential for expansion in the future?
  • Is it zoned for commercial development? If not, how difficult would it be to change the status with the local zoning committee?
  • What are the property taxes on said parcel?
  • What would the cost of developing the property be? How long would it take?
  • What accessibility does it have to an airport (for equipment deliveries), large city (to attract qualified candidates)?
  • What is the availability of renewable energy sources and the cost?
  • Is the local government willing to barter concerning taxes and fees? If so, how much so?
  • and so on...

No site will be optimal for everything, there would have to be some concessions made, just like any real estate transaction.

Servers are servers, routers are routers, and basically cost the same wherever they are located. The land purchase is a one time expense; however, the biggest variable ongoing expenses for a large server facility that that would be utilities and taxes.

In the end, Apple probably wittled down their potential sites to less than a half dozen and proceeded to negotiate with the local authorities/power companies on the latter two.

Somewhere, Prineville came up on top. We'll probably never know why since Apple would not discuss the details of the negotiations with other sites. By law, the public has the right to know of any special deals the local government cuts.

However if Apple struck a deal with a private power company concerning rates, that would be private matter.

You can't base Apple's projected power costs looking at a retail power bill and consumer power rates. Corporations get different rates.

Do you think Amazon.com plays UPS the same amount to ship a 1-pound package as you would pay if you walked into a UPS Store?
 
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OK flu, whatever, but why when we know there is going to be an inevitable end to it, not built something cool?! They are so "cool" in the design factor, yet the new data center is another SEARS bunker or a temporary K-MART. Commission Meier, get Peli, or outdo the Burj Khalifa! But nooo, it is going to be so blunt with few windows, so “green”, that after Apple will no longer need it, it will be trashed and hauled into a local dump. The best they can do is a silly yacht with Starck, and even here they did not have enough sense to take it to the people at Lürssen. Boring.
 
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At the unemployment line of course. :rolleyes: So lets see average wage there is 5.75 a hour times 150% will be a whole 8.62 cents more. Oh man I be one depressed person if that was all I had a chance to make. :rolleyes:

Oh these articles are priceless.

Uh, minimum wage is set by state, not by county. $5 is way below minimum wage in Oregon. I think it is $9 an hour or so...but this is over the AVERAGE WAGE, and someone already pointed that out.
 
OK flu, whatever, but why when we know there is going to be an inevitable end to it, not built something cool?! They are so "cool" in the design factor, yet the new data center is another SEARS bunker or a temporary K-MART. Commission Meier, get Peli, or outdo the Burj Khalifa! But nooo, it is going to be so blunt with few windows, so “green”, that after Apple will no longer need it, it will be trashed and hauled into a local dump. The best they can do is a silly yacht with Starck, and even here they did not have enough sense to take it to the people at Lürssen. Boring.

Because no one is going to go there. No one goes to a data center to look at the architecture. There is a great deal of design that goes into a data center, and a lot of thought. It's just not something you see from the outside. The same is true of many laboratories and other technical buildings. The question is not "Is the lobby pretty?" but "Can it keep this cool? What happens if X?". As for it being temporary and hauled off to the local dump - Apple's made a 15 year commitment to the site.

How do you know it's cheap or apt to fall apart? Architecturally designed buildings can be terrible in terms of function and durability, and well-built, boring but functional structures can stand the test of time.

Save the high priced architects for the places where hundreds of people work and visit. Like I dunno - Apple's HQ. If only we had some news about what they were planning for that. Oh wait...
 
This is a good deal for Crook County. They are receiving 150,000 a year in exchange for very little in additional costs for county services. The county is not giving away anything to Apple, because without the tax break Apple would not build.

The real issue is the ridiculousness of taxing the value of the servers, which is what this tax break does away with. I don't see why a company should pay more in taxes simply because of the value of equipment in their building when they are not receiving any additional services from the county.
 
- The annual $150,000 is better than $0. Yes, its less than they would make if Apple paid the full property taxes, but there's no guarantee that Apple would locate the data center there in the first place. A good deal means they lock in some amount of income, versus potentially losing the site entirely.

Just going to point out to you that the current tax on the land is more than likely higher than a 150k per year. So the county/city is taking a tax loss not a gain over this.
Also after the agreement is up the tax bill on the land will skyrocket to 7+figures for Apple. Apple could threaten all they want to pull out but Apple would still have the Tax bill until they sold off the property. The city would not accept it even as donated but they would get tons of money off of it.
 
Because no one is going to go there. No one goes to a data center to look at the architecture. There is a great deal of design that goes into a data center, and a lot of thought. It's just not something you see from the outside. The same is true of many laboratories and other technical buildings. The question is not "Is the lobby pretty?" but "Can it keep this cool? What happens if X?". As for it being temporary and hauled off to the local dump - Apple's made a 15 year commitment to the site.

How do you know it's cheap or apt to fall apart? Architecturally designed buildings can be terrible in terms of function and durability, and well-built, boring but functional structures can stand the test of time.

Save the high priced architects for the places where hundreds of people work and visit. Like I dunno - Apple's HQ. If only we had some news about what they were planning for that. Oh wait...

Flu, I am not sure why, but just described a no brand desktop from Fry's when I was referring to the new Mac pro tower.
 
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The good news is that Apple can claim that this data center is "GREEN", since Oregon gets most of its power from hydroelectric power plants (42%).

Of course, Greenpeace can still claim that Apple is wantonly chopping up the poor little fishes to get power for their servers...

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They gotta do something with that $80 billion in cash. After they get done building this data center, they will still have $85 billion left.

Always nice to have a positive cash flow...

1. Is Greenpeace interested in peace? Or did they just decide to combine the most over-used "good change" words to lure sheep? It's impossible to take them seriously with that name.

2. Apple is planning some big market takeover with this. I doubt this is just for iCloud. Hopefully, they'll use the cash properly (they haven't had experience with this kind of Google-like strategy before).

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You are very bad at math.

That was also my reaction :p

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At the unemployment line of course. :rolleyes: So lets see average wage there is 5.75 a hour times 150% will be a whole 8.62 cents more.

Umm
$8.63 total.
That's a difference of $2.88, not 8.62 cents.
 
Just going to point out to you that the current tax on the land is more than likely higher than a 150k per year. So the county/city is taking a tax loss not a gain over this.

That current tax is only collected if someone is using the land. Apple isn't obligated to put a data center there. They aren't obligated to put a data center anywhere.

So no, they're not taking a tax loss. They are getting less than their theoretical maximum tax income, but given Apple likely wouldn't put anything there without a break, their minimum is nothing. It's like gambling. If you find yourself in Vegas, and a casino manager says to you "I'll give you $1,000 or someone in this casino $1,000,000" for god's sake take the $1,000 (assuming a crowded casino).

Flu, I am not sure why, but just described a no brand desktop from Fry's when I was referring to the new Mac pro tower.

If you want to go with that analogy, I also just described a well-designed, robust server farm that serves a very specific purpose without regards to aesthetics, while preferring a Mac Pro on my desk.

You know, exactly the kind of computers going into that data center. "Pretty" is not the only design aesthetic with merit.
 
Just going to point out to you that the current tax on the land is more than likely higher than a 150k per year. So the county/city is taking a tax loss not a gain over this.
Also after the agreement is up the tax bill on the land will skyrocket to 7+figures for Apple. Apple could threaten all they want to pull out but Apple would still have the Tax bill until they sold off the property. The city would not accept it even as donated but they would get tons of money off of it.

I believe that the property was previously owned by the county, so it was not generating any tax revenue. Also, even if it had been privately owned the tax would be under 100K. Simple rangeland is not that valuable.

As for the price increase after the tax deal is over, the property value is not in the land but in the servers inside. If Apple removed everything from the building they would reduce their tax liability to very little.
 
That current tax is only collected if someone is using the land. Apple isn't obligated to put a data center there. They aren't obligated to put a data center anywhere.

So no, they're not taking a tax loss. They are getting less than their theoretical maximum tax income, but given Apple likely wouldn't put anything there without a break, their minimum is nothing. It's like gambling. If you find yourself in Vegas, and a casino manager says to you "I'll give you $1,000 or someone in this casino $1,000,000" for god's sake take the $1,000 (assuming a crowded casino).
.

Only if it is county owned landed does that Apply. If it is privately owned landed they get to collect taxes off of it.

hence my earlier point.
 
Good to see Apple using renewable clean energy for their stuff. My house has 20 solar panels which completely cover my electricity usage year round. Free and zero pollution. Can it be a more obvious idea?
 
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