BenRoethig
macrumors 68030
Apple, IBM, and AMD working together doesn't have to mean Athlon Macs. It's much cheaper to co-develop technologies all parties have access to.
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Apple and AMD (again)?
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Sun Baked
macrumors G5
AMD is the lead company on HyperTransport...
Even if Apple decides to use Rapid I/O for the main bus, they'll probably still need to end up needing a HyperTransport bridge to add some of the functions that may not be available off-the-shelf under RIO.
And with IBM & Motorola pushing Rapid I/O, Apple using a Hybrid RIO/Hypertransport system would allow them to function effectively with IBM standards while still retaining Wintel H/W standards compatibility.
So in short, even if Apple goes with IBM -- they still need to keep talking to AMD.
Even if Apple decides to use Rapid I/O for the main bus, they'll probably still need to end up needing a HyperTransport bridge to add some of the functions that may not be available off-the-shelf under RIO.
And with IBM & Motorola pushing Rapid I/O, Apple using a Hybrid RIO/Hypertransport system would allow them to function effectively with IBM standards while still retaining Wintel H/W standards compatibility.
So in short, even if Apple goes with IBM -- they still need to keep talking to AMD.
Sleix
macrumors regular
Re: Here's my pet theory
Okay, now that I pointed that out, if you're not clear about your history of computing...the Amiga back in the late 80s - Early 90s had an option for daughter boards so they can use other computer's operating systems (They had a Macintosh and a 386/486 Intel Option, wow.) This, I believe, was one of the bigger mistakes that Amiga had done. After they became widely available, the programmers were sort of inching away from programming native Amiga, because without any real reason for the manufacturers to create programs for that environment natively, they fell upon their old addage of "Whatever works for that daughterboard will do fine for you, live with it."
Allowing this mistake to happen was one of the inevitable things that KILLED the Amiga...or brought it down to 0.001% of the computer market, if you believe that it hasn't died yet. 🙂
Alright, now that we've had enough of that history lesson...
I disagree with doing this solution for one real reason. Three words. "Remember the Amiga?"
Okay, now that I pointed that out, if you're not clear about your history of computing...the Amiga back in the late 80s - Early 90s had an option for daughter boards so they can use other computer's operating systems (They had a Macintosh and a 386/486 Intel Option, wow.) This, I believe, was one of the bigger mistakes that Amiga had done. After they became widely available, the programmers were sort of inching away from programming native Amiga, because without any real reason for the manufacturers to create programs for that environment natively, they fell upon their old addage of "Whatever works for that daughterboard will do fine for you, live with it."
Allowing this mistake to happen was one of the inevitable things that KILLED the Amiga...or brought it down to 0.001% of the computer market, if you believe that it hasn't died yet. 🙂
Alright, now that we've had enough of that history lesson...
HyperTransport
Just take a look here to notice the Apple logo among the top 3 members:
http://www.hypertransport.org/
AMD and Apple working together is nothing new. When the XServe was introduced Apple France did a tour to present the server, I attended at one of the presentations, and a speaker clearly stated that the chipset at the heart of the XServe had been ingineered with AMDs help and made by AMD, he also said that it was the begining of a new collaboration.
Just take a look here to notice the Apple logo among the top 3 members:
http://www.hypertransport.org/
AMD and Apple working together is nothing new. When the XServe was introduced Apple France did a tour to present the server, I attended at one of the presentations, and a speaker clearly stated that the chipset at the heart of the XServe had been ingineered with AMDs help and made by AMD, he also said that it was the begining of a new collaboration.
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
Re: Re: Here's my pet theory
I haven't heard it anywhere that I can recall, but it makes perfect sense. I'm prepared to stake my entire, vast reputation as a prognosticator on the proposition that 10.3 will feature a version of Classic that won't be bootable on any Mac and will be more seamlessly integrated into OSX then Classic is currently.
I haven't heard it anywhere that I can recall, but it makes perfect sense. I'm prepared to stake my entire, vast reputation as a prognosticator on the proposition that 10.3 will feature a version of Classic that won't be bootable on any Mac and will be more seamlessly integrated into OSX then Classic is currently.
We've heard that 10.3 will include a more integrated Classic environment where Classic Mac OS apps will be given many of the benefits of Aqua.
We have? I was not aware of this. I wonder why their wasting their time on that though - Classic is becoming irrelevant pretty quickly. Where did you hear it?
It was on MOSR a while ago.
I hope apple are planning to allow low level access to the hardware from classic, If this is coupled with the ability to disable virtual memory in classic (or fool classic into thinking it's disabled), the whole OS 9 boot issue should go away then for audio people.
Logic, DP4, Reason and the highly quirky Protools 6 arn't reason enough to think a mac that only boots OS X is an option for now. Plug-ins, software synths, Core Audio drivers all need to be working fully and ported to OS X before a new mac is even an option for some of us. They could bring out a dual 2Ghz PPC970 powermac with 8Gb of RAM for $1000 and it would just sit under my desk waiting for software to be available right now.
We have? I was not aware of this. I wonder why their wasting their time on that though - Classic is becoming irrelevant pretty quickly. Where did you hear it?
It was on MOSR a while ago.
I hope apple are planning to allow low level access to the hardware from classic, If this is coupled with the ability to disable virtual memory in classic (or fool classic into thinking it's disabled), the whole OS 9 boot issue should go away then for audio people.
Logic, DP4, Reason and the highly quirky Protools 6 arn't reason enough to think a mac that only boots OS X is an option for now. Plug-ins, software synths, Core Audio drivers all need to be working fully and ported to OS X before a new mac is even an option for some of us. They could bring out a dual 2Ghz PPC970 powermac with 8Gb of RAM for $1000 and it would just sit under my desk waiting for software to be available right now.
Compufix
macrumors regular
Re: Re: Here's my pet theory
To be accurate....Commodore was the reason Amiga failed (they simply did NOT do anything with it regarding marketing...it really was a machine YEARS ahead of anything else....)
Also, they supplied only the PC card option (just like Apple did). The Mac emulation was a product called EMPLANT done by a third party (of which I was a beta tester)...truly amazing technology that actually gave HARDWARE (SCSI controller, Serial ports and timing chips) and I used it for many years....2 Major developments started on the Amiga that are in use today in the Video/Graphics industry...the Video Toaster started on the Amiga and was the first true 4 input production video switcher available for a computer system that was able to do what systems costing tens of thousands of dollars did, and as a throw in, came with a nifty little 3d program called Lightwave, which we all now know and love...and you can thank the Amiga for a great deal of Hacker Demo's using 3d funky graphics and the mod music format.
Ahhh those were the days 😎
Now back to our regularly scheduled computer platform....
To be accurate....Commodore was the reason Amiga failed (they simply did NOT do anything with it regarding marketing...it really was a machine YEARS ahead of anything else....)
Also, they supplied only the PC card option (just like Apple did). The Mac emulation was a product called EMPLANT done by a third party (of which I was a beta tester)...truly amazing technology that actually gave HARDWARE (SCSI controller, Serial ports and timing chips) and I used it for many years....2 Major developments started on the Amiga that are in use today in the Video/Graphics industry...the Video Toaster started on the Amiga and was the first true 4 input production video switcher available for a computer system that was able to do what systems costing tens of thousands of dollars did, and as a throw in, came with a nifty little 3d program called Lightwave, which we all now know and love...and you can thank the Amiga for a great deal of Hacker Demo's using 3d funky graphics and the mod music format.
Ahhh those were the days 😎
Now back to our regularly scheduled computer platform....
Apple 64bit motherboards
The fact Apple is out there so much heartens me.
I feel that their motherboard designs have fallen seriously behind, and one cannot lay blame entirely on the CPU sourcer. Apple should leverage all the external engineering innovation it can. Apple must have a longterm strategy, but none of us really know what that is.
I can, however, imagine a custom Opteron with Altivec/PPC layer. AMD has already successfully reengineered Intel's MMC. Hardware wise, I don't see many "deal breakers".
Isn't it really time to do a major motherboard redesign anyways? especially during a MACOSX 64 design phase.... There really could be some big price/performance wins for Apple's highend customers.
That said, operating 32bit PPC software bugfree on an Opteron platform and also urging developers to create new 64bit software are "much tougher things to do".
I'd love to see Opteron & Hypertransport chips in a Macintosh.. Only a few of the modern Apple motherboards are very similar anyways.
Ok, who wants to talk about MIPS in a Mac.. ok just joking..
The fact Apple is out there so much heartens me.
I feel that their motherboard designs have fallen seriously behind, and one cannot lay blame entirely on the CPU sourcer. Apple should leverage all the external engineering innovation it can. Apple must have a longterm strategy, but none of us really know what that is.
I can, however, imagine a custom Opteron with Altivec/PPC layer. AMD has already successfully reengineered Intel's MMC. Hardware wise, I don't see many "deal breakers".
Isn't it really time to do a major motherboard redesign anyways? especially during a MACOSX 64 design phase.... There really could be some big price/performance wins for Apple's highend customers.
That said, operating 32bit PPC software bugfree on an Opteron platform and also urging developers to create new 64bit software are "much tougher things to do".
I'd love to see Opteron & Hypertransport chips in a Macintosh.. Only a few of the modern Apple motherboards are very similar anyways.
Ok, who wants to talk about MIPS in a Mac.. ok just joking..
Re: Intel and PowerPC
Oh! C'mon. It's Dvorak. Whatever he say's he's always wrong. I don't eaven follow he's BS anymore. Once I did and even got excited about he's writings time-to-time, but today some comments here seem to be way smater than Dvoraks blablabla. This man doesn't a the clue what's happening around. He just picks up some things on net and speculates around those. Nothing that separates him from average macrumors commenter. I don't know why the hell PCmag pay's him.
Oh! C'mon. It's Dvorak. Whatever he say's he's always wrong. I don't eaven follow he's BS anymore. Once I did and even got excited about he's writings time-to-time, but today some comments here seem to be way smater than Dvoraks blablabla. This man doesn't a the clue what's happening around. He just picks up some things on net and speculates around those. Nothing that separates him from average macrumors commenter. I don't know why the hell PCmag pay's him.
eric_n_dfw
macrumors 68000
Re: Re: Re: Here's my pet theory
They wanted me to sell and support Amiga's but would give me next to no hardware and no money for booth space in the student union. This while IBM had huge, canopied booths on the mall touting their new PS/2 machines and Apple throwing Mac IIci's at any student that walked by!
My manager (in CA somewhere) got layed off and I never heard from them again. (I was hired as a private contractor)
As for the VT - it rocked - NewTek single handedly kept Commie/Amiga alive for several years with it. From what I've seen, though, the Toaster NT is less than spectacular.
NewTek used to be so cool! (Remember Kiki! Oh-la-la 😎 )
And you're not kidding about the hacker demos - the tricks those guys did with the Copper chip were awesome, made even the most expensive Mac IIfx's at the like look silly.
The only computer I used that made me want to leave Amiga back then was the NeXT Cube ... which is the only reason I'm on an Apple today! (OS X == OPENSTEP 5)
What were we talking about?
Ain't that the truth! I was a hard core Amiga geek and worked for Commodore for a while. I was an "Amiga Student On Campus Consultant" at U of AZ back in 90-91 and they (C=), in the imortal words of Butthead, "sucked more than anything has ever sucked before!"
They wanted me to sell and support Amiga's but would give me next to no hardware and no money for booth space in the student union. This while IBM had huge, canopied booths on the mall touting their new PS/2 machines and Apple throwing Mac IIci's at any student that walked by!
My manager (in CA somewhere) got layed off and I never heard from them again. (I was hired as a private contractor)
As for the VT - it rocked - NewTek single handedly kept Commie/Amiga alive for several years with it. From what I've seen, though, the Toaster NT is less than spectacular.
NewTek used to be so cool! (Remember Kiki! Oh-la-la 😎 )
And you're not kidding about the hacker demos - the tricks those guys did with the Copper chip were awesome, made even the most expensive Mac IIfx's at the like look silly.
The only computer I used that made me want to leave Amiga back then was the NeXT Cube ... which is the only reason I'm on an Apple today! (OS X == OPENSTEP 5)
What were we talking about?
Re: Here's my pet theory
SLAP! Breathe man! Damn you breathe!!
Everything is going to be okay, it was just a flashback!
(PS: there were some pretty tricky upgrade companies out there, huh?)
SLAP! Breathe man! Damn you breathe!!
Everything is going to be okay, it was just a flashback!
(PS: there were some pretty tricky upgrade companies out there, huh?)
MrMacMan
macrumors 604
Look
Apple will probably use hypertransport.
Apple will probably not use an AMD chip right now.
As the article says, don't read too much into it. I'm suprised they didn't flat out say 'yes apple is a co-founder of hypertransport and has always talked to AMD' AND THAT WOULD BE THE END, but nnoooooo, they have to speculate... 'there is a .0001% chance of this happening'
If apple comes out with an AMD chip before the 970 or whatever is next I will give you the password to this account.
Apple will probably use hypertransport.
Apple will probably not use an AMD chip right now.
As the article says, don't read too much into it. I'm suprised they didn't flat out say 'yes apple is a co-founder of hypertransport and has always talked to AMD' AND THAT WOULD BE THE END, but nnoooooo, they have to speculate... 'there is a .0001% chance of this happening'
If apple comes out with an AMD chip before the 970 or whatever is next I will give you the password to this account.
Hello????.... anyone @motorola listening????
This could serve as awakeup call to the 3rd member of the PPC consortium... ya those clowns eho made "banana" cell phones. as to pour in some R&D dollars to get offa their arses (doubtfull)
would like to see PPC boards that get above 500MHZ (intel now at 800) and a from the ground up 64 or even 128 bit proccessors. Not the slap together job of 2x32=64 half arse job . . . how cheap (real design) can you get?
would also like to see some performance in the aqua interface . . .way to GPU dependant
still want to know where da heck the " computer for the rest of us" is!!!
wish I had the time to type properly too!
This could serve as awakeup call to the 3rd member of the PPC consortium... ya those clowns eho made "banana" cell phones. as to pour in some R&D dollars to get offa their arses (doubtfull)
would like to see PPC boards that get above 500MHZ (intel now at 800) and a from the ground up 64 or even 128 bit proccessors. Not the slap together job of 2x32=64 half arse job . . . how cheap (real design) can you get?
would also like to see some performance in the aqua interface . . .way to GPU dependant
still want to know where da heck the " computer for the rest of us" is!!!
wish I had the time to type properly too!
eric_n_dfw
macrumors 68000
Re: Stop the insanity
FYI,
Actually, AMD just released this month, a Centrino type version of their Athlon XP chip called "Athlon XP-M" ( "M" for mobile ) that uses low power consumption.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_1276_807,00.html
FYI,
Actually, AMD just released this month, a Centrino type version of their Athlon XP chip called "Athlon XP-M" ( "M" for mobile ) that uses low power consumption.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_1276_807,00.html
