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Apple and Cisco iPhone Negotiations

coumerelli said:
This 'new two-year contract' is true whenever you change your plan with Cingular/Sprint/whoever! Seriously! Who in the last 10 years has offered a month-to-month?! c'mon! NObody. And one-year contracts are practically extinct, too.
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Well first off I'm talking the contract between Aple and Cingular however lets look at the contract between their customers and them. I just upgraded, and am waiting for my first "smartphone" I sure as heck haven't signed in with T Mobile for another 2 years of service.
 
izzle22 said:
Well, That's very strange. Everybody I talk to(even non Apple people)wants this phone and said they will switch from Sprint, Verizon or T-Mobile just to have this phone. You must be in high school or college and your circle of friend must not have the money for the phone. All the negative things I've read is mostly from people who can't afford the phone anyway.
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I agree. It took talking to 8 people about it before finding one that thought it was stupid. The other 7 are already saving their pennies for it.

Most of the negative reviews i've seen on the internet seem to be from people who clearly havn't watched the keynote or just can't afford it.

Let's put this into perspective:

1. It's the price of a big iPod on release with more "coolness factor". The original iPods made it by just fine.

2. It doesn't support Flash or Java. Like all those WAP2.0 browsers out there do?

3. It doesn't sync to outlook. iPod's sync with outlook. So i'm sure this one is bogus. Maybe it won't connect to MS Exchange, but that's not the same thing.

4. It doesn't support word, excel or powerpoint files. The UI of a small-form device is just not right for making these. Apple will have some print-to-pdf feature to get other documents.

5. Small harddrive for movies. It'll easily hold a DVD movie. How many movies do you expect the battery to last for? And let's face it, this is nothing more than a novelty and a show-off-feature in the first place.

6. No 3G. It's got WiFi which is a lot cheaper and pretty readily available in most offices. You'll have to deal with a slower connection in a few places. And if this is a problem, wait for the 2nd generation iPhone.

7. It's a closed system. So is the iPod. It does what it does well. And it lets Apple fill in the missing features Apple-style.

A lot of this is going to disappear if they plan on integrating with Asia in 2008. They'll get their 1% marketshare for 2nd half 2007. And they'll keep innovating and adding the features that didn't make it into the first revision.
 
[OT]
I've been wondering... How are you supposed to hold the iPhone up to your head when the speaker and mic are on the bottom?
 
Hmmmm. Seems to me Cisco anticipated another company (possible Apple) to attempt use of this name, but wanted to "beat them to the punch" and call shots about it's use. Demanding that the product be "Cisco friendly"??? What is that? Sounds like bullying tactics to me. I hope Apple proves they didn't fully trademark the name and sticks it right back to them. :cool:
 
Meanwhile, readers note that Apple has been careful to place the Apple logo in front of all references to the iPhone on their web pages.
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This is suspect claim to me, since if you look at Apple's home page, it still clearly says "Introducing iPhone. Apple reinvents the phone."

Not "Applelogo"iPhone

As well, look at the top tab. And on the iPhone page, the very first word in the paragraph is iPhone.

I have a hard time buying the claim that they are "being careful" in presenting the "Apple logo" before iPhone all the time.
 

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What is 'closed'

BobMcBob said:
[OT]
I've been wondering... How are you supposed to hold the iPhone up to your head when the speaker and mic are on the bottom?
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I think people are casting this issue much too black and white. There is a statement in the newsweek article "... even if Apple has to vet them to make sure they won’t compromise the integrity of the network. " indicated it is not 'fully closed'. While not a quote from Jobs I think this is the right direction. There have been people claiming the phone function can be 'sandboxed' like other phones but I think this hard separation of funtionality interferes with the user experience on current phones making the crappy interface they are. Apple is taking the right approach putting the user experience above other considerations for the FIRST version.
 
So basically Cisco demanded something that Apple wouldn't be able to deliver, likely to give themselves a way to say that Apple broke negotiations, not them, very common business tactic. Cisco wanted Apple's Phone to be compatible with Cisco's VoIP, and Apple could do that or likely be in breach of their contract with Cingular, so here we are.
 
SiliconAddict said:
So what do we have here? Apple doing thy bidding my master. Until 2009 Apple is Cingular's *cough* "friend". The more I read about the iPhone the more I want to throw-up. Apple is selling their soul to get in on this market. Think Different? More like Think Corporate.
pukeface.gif
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Aren't you a bit melodramatic? Apple was first and foremost always a company. And the markets have become tougher, sometimes to enter and to push innovation you have sacrifice other things. It is just the way it is.
 
Stella said:
Apple have always treated their customers as if they are retarded.

- Ship a one buttoned mouse because we aren't clever enough to have two buttons ( we get a proper mouse from elsewhere ).
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Not true. All Macs now ship with "Mighty Mouse", which has more buttons than most Microsoft/Logitech mice. It's configurable in "Mouse Preferences". The mouse is made to look as though it doesn't have them, but there are sensors that distinguish between the left and rights buttons, a center button that is accessed by pushing down on the center top of the mouse, a scroll ball that goes in every direction for across screen scrolling, and a fourth button that is activated by pressing both sides of the mouse at once, usually configured for Exposé.

- dumbed down iLife apps such as iWeb that are too basic to be usable.
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Obviously you have not used iWeb either. It might look basic, but that's because it's designed well for easier usability. I have professional photographer friends in NYC that use iWeb for there web sites, and they're very complex, innovative and flawless.

- no Php or other scripting tools in .Mac
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Are they necessary? What is the purpose of .Mac other than backing up files, addresses, mail, bookmarks - what more do you need?

- iPod doesn't have a user replacable battery because we don't think your clever enough to replace it yourself. Instead, send us the iPod to replace and we'll charge you $$$ for the service. ( Yes, you can get replacement batteries from elsewhere )
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First off, I've owned every generation iPod since the beginning. I only replaced the battery of the 3rd generation once and they payed for the service. On top of which iPod customers received a $50 check from Apple Ipod 3g owners due to this issue.

- and as you say, No 3rd party apps for you because we don't think you need them and you don't need them. On top of that, you may bring down an entire cellular network!! LOL.
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? Again, no basis for this comment. Now that Cingular has severely improved their customer service (up 56% from 1st quarter last year] and as the #1 largest mobile service provider in the U.S. [60 million last I checked] AND with GSM/EDGE and now HSDPA they're surpassing Verizon and Sprint in download speed. Again, would Steve Jobs pick an exclusive deal with a company that was terrible? AND if it was so terrible why do more people belong to the service?

Most of the people I know (including me, I switched from Verizon last year after they screwed me over and crippled all my bluetooth phones from using Bluetooth OBEX), are international travelers/businessmen that can afford Cingular and use it across seas. Using GSM (Verizon and Sprint use that dated "North American only" CDMA crap) opens Apple to more global markets.

People are also forgetting, THE PHONE HASN'T EVEN BEEN RELEASED YET!!! It's still a prototype. Everyone's getting their panties in a bunch over this thing. Stop tripping people, relaaaaaaaxxxx, and enjoy the ride. It seems to me most people are complaining because they actually can't afford the phone so they're looking for other ways in justifying their frustration. Build a bridge, get over it. I for one won't be making any judgment calls until a month after its release. In the mean time, chill out homies. Sheesh.:cool:
 
Trippin' people, TRIPPIN'

First off, it's just a PHONE, and it hasn't even been released yet. Everyone's all pissy and moaning. :confused: Seriously.

Let's recap. Apple specifically said this is NOT supposed to be a Palm anything, but rather an iPod/Phone/Communicator. Instead of shooting in this PROTOTYPE, let's recap what it CAN do:

1. What is the price of an Apple 8 GB Nano (same memory as the phone)? $249. The Nano doesn't even have a large screen or video playback. The iPhone has a 3.5" widescreen for watching movies, web browsing, etc. That's the biggest screen of its kind on the market.

2. New patented technology (visit this youtube video for a demonstration of the new technology Apple "acquired" and what it is able to do, http://youtube.com/watch?v=89sz8ExZndc ). Using two fingers to zoom in and zoom out is just a hint of the features multi-touch screens can do. Scrolling with the use of a finger swipe, zooming in and out by pinching, touch screen texting are all just a taste of what's to come.

3. Voicemail access for individual messages displayed on the unit by caller.

4. One touch calling and answering.

5. WiFi and GSM/EDGE and HSDPA (which Cingular and T-Mobile use as well as international carries such as Orange, etc.) for some of the fastest download rates avaible in today's market.

6. Google maps, allowing the user to locate retailers, restaurants, people - all without dialing 411, based on the iPhone/users exact location.

7. Widgets for stocks, weather, calculator, alarm clock, and any other widget that is available.

8. Notepad for tasts and notes.

9. OSX. Period.

10. Safari browser which syncs bookmarks.

11. Accelerometer sensor which shuts the phone off while talking. Many of my friends who have Palm Treo's always complain that they hang-up during calls because their ear hits the "End Call" button too easily. Not with the iPhone.

12. Proximity senser for vertical or horizational intuitive viewing.

13. HTML e-mail.

14. Multitasking that allows web browsing while downloading an email, etc.

15. Bluetooth 2.0 and a real slick bluetooth headset.

This is just a prototype, so I'm certain changes will be made before actual release. Regardless, this thing is brilliant. BRILLIANT. Nothing like it is on the market, especially with the features. If you think about the cost of an iPod ($249-$349) plus what a Palm Treo ($499 with a two year contract with Verizon). Add those two up:

$249 + $499 =$749!!!!! The iPhone can do more than those two combined AND MORE for the same price as a Palm Treo 700 ($499). Why all the bitching and moaning? What's interesting, everyone internationally (except for Japan) who has read about this has had very little complaints, yet the American's are all too eager to bitch and moan. :( How sad...
 
barnaby said:
I agree. It took talking to 8 people about it before finding one that thought it was stupid. The other 7 are already saving their pennies for it.

Most of the negative reviews i've seen on the internet seem to be from people who clearly havn't watched the keynote or just can't afford it.

Let's put this into perspective:

1. It's the price of a big iPod on release with more "coolness factor". The original iPods made it by just fine.

2. It doesn't support Flash or Java. Like all those WAP2.0 browsers out there do?

3. It doesn't sync to outlook. iPod's sync with outlook. So i'm sure this one is bogus. Maybe it won't connect to MS Exchange, but that's not the same thing.

4. It doesn't support word, excel or powerpoint files. The UI of a small-form device is just not right for making these. Apple will have some print-to-pdf feature to get other documents.

5. Small harddrive for movies. It'll easily hold a DVD movie. How many movies do you expect the battery to last for? And let's face it, this is nothing more than a novelty and a show-off-feature in the first place.

6. No 3G. It's got WiFi which is a lot cheaper and pretty readily available in most offices. You'll have to deal with a slower connection in a few places. And if this is a problem, wait for the 2nd generation iPhone.

7. It's a closed system. So is the iPod. It does what it does well. And it lets Apple fill in the missing features Apple-style.

A lot of this is going to disappear if they plan on integrating with Asia in 2008. They'll get their 1% marketshare for 2nd half 2007. And they'll keep innovating and adding the features that didn't make it into the first revision.
Click to expand...



I might like to point out that I am among the people who can afford it and I still think it is an over price, over hype phone that fails at being a good phone. It fails at it primary function by trying to do much and getting way from being a phone. The touch screen for entering numbers I think is crap. It is not worth money.

As for you other reasons of yours

1. I do not completely get it. Right now the ipod do well because of the software hardware working really well.

2. Bad move not supporting flash and java. My cell phone supports java. Not supporting 2 major ways stuff is display on the web is bad. My PDA supports them both.

3. I might like to point out the iPod syncing with out look is pretty poor and well crap. The iPhone will need to work with out any hang up and right now the ipod has lots of annoying things about it with the syncing that the iPhone can not have. It has to be able to sync flawlessly and with out any extra clicking. Right now the iPod requires you giving it permission every single time which is annoying. Again I will point to my TX which does it with out any hang up at all and it goes both ways.

4. I am sorry but not supporting those formats just plane stupid. PDA and palm along with current smart phones all allow for editing and using those files. Supporting it is pretty much a must because people who tend to get smart phones do minor edits all the time. I edit word files on my palm. It was minor ones but I did edit.

5. Kind of agree with you here on it. It phone so putting a hard drive in there is just not really possible. Plus 4 gigs are a few movies and really people are expecting too much out of the battery. I do think the phone should lock out use of the media player and DVD player after a certain point with the battery to make sure the phone function keep working.

6. I think not putting g3 support was a bad move because that is the way things are heading and it just leaving it behind. Yeah it has wifi but that requires finding a hot spot. You can not just use it any where with you plane. Move of the time you going to be using the cell network over a wifi system for the mobile internet.

7. Close system works for the iPod because of what the iPod is. The iPhone is trying to move in on the smart phone area. Completely different ball park. Most apps people using on smart phones, PDA, and Palms are 3rd party. That is where a lot of the good stuff is made. Limiting that is going to hurt it even more. Another bad move on apple's part.

By the looks of it the iPhone going to sell because it made by apple. That is it biggest selling point. But so far it looks like it is going to hurt apples rep and it has a good chance to backfire on them.
 
Hmmm...seems like the iPhone is dividing alot of Mac folks.
Or is it the fact we can't bitch and moan about the next upgraded Mac?

Cisco seems to be banking on the idea that VOIP will never get taxed. I think that will all end eventually just like the internet not getting taxed..eventually it all will.

If Apple can prove Cisco didn't make deadline then Cisco will lose out.
They may also lose out if Apple can prove intellectual property of the i in iphone or work on the iphone before Cisco trademark.

I have a feeling Cisco will just end up getting some money from Apple and Apple keeps the name or Apple just calls it the Apple Phone.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the whole Apple/Cingular thing I could careless.
Folks said the same crap about IBM and Intel when Apple hooked in with them.
 
iChat

Any one recall Leopard beta 9A321 having iChat with an Answering option, allowing users to see a video or listen to a message when attempting to chat with a user who is unavailable? As secret features haven't been released on Leopard yet, what if Apple WILL have the iPhone use iChat with video messaging? What if the iPhone camera actually is a WEB CAM that allows video conferencing with iChat? Of course Steve Jobs wouldn't release that info as Leopard is still under wraps, but mark my words I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the secrets yet to be revealed. Also, I'm certain the iPhone has other features that will tie into the Leopard release that have not been disclosed. Think about it...
 
The iPod DOES have a user replaceable battery... IF you are clever enough to replace it yourself. I like how you worded that. batteries are available anywhere... you just need to open your ipod up. there are websites all over telling you how.

iLife applications are not meant to be Professional grade products... if iweb is too basic for you.. learn HTML, Flash and Java, and write your own page... you're right, it really isnt that hard to make a web page.

and you're right garageband hardly has any editing abilities... oh but then again... its simply a stripped down version of Logic that comes free with your mac. and somehow, I still use it from time to time even though I have logic pro.

thank god iphoto isnt anymore complicated... a dumb simple photo program that works everytime is all I'll ever need.

you do have a point with the one button mouse... though, Ive gotten by for years with out buying a two button one.


Stella said:
Apple have always treated their customers as if they are retarded.

- Ship a one buttoned mouse because we aren't clever enough to have two buttons ( we get a proper mouse from elsewhere ).

- dumbed down iLife apps such as iWeb that are too basic to be usable.

- no Php or other scripting tools in .Mac

- iPod doesn't have a user replacable battery because we don't think your clever enough to replace it yourself. Instead, send us the iPod to replace and we'll charge you $$$ for the service. ( Yes, you can get replacement batteries from elsewhere )


- and as you say, No 3rd party apps for you because we don't think you need them and you don't need them. On top of that, you may bring down an entire cellular network!! LOL.
Click to expand...
 
Stella said:
I dislike the way Apple have repeatedly attempted to buy the iPhone name - i.e., by setting up a 'communications' company facade in an attempt to use that to buy iPhone.

Apple do not know the meaning of 'No'.

Cisco started using the iPhone name again since 2004, so its not so recent.





Maybe not in the States, but in Canada, Fido does! And its really very very useful.
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Uh, I don't think slapping a sticker on a box is quite what the trademark commission had in mind.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/13/cisco-might-have-lost-iphone-trademark-in-06/
 
AtHomeBoy_2000 said:
LMAO! I love this photo...
cit200_470.jpg


"Wait, see, we have an iPhone! It's the same model as before, we just slapped a iPhone label on the plastic wrapping. But we CLEARLY are selling an iPhone."
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The slapping on of an inkjet-printed sticker 4 days before the renewal grace period expired is hilarious. That zdnet article on how Cisco may have effectively abandoned the trademark explains why Apple should win. How long would it have taken to reprint the box? One week? This probably means Cisco only became aware of the need to demonstrate ongoing use when they finally got around to filing the renewal, and that itself didn't happen until literally a week before the expiration date. And this is months or years after rumors of the Apple iPhone. Probably some new paralegal intern happened to remark that day how they were eagerly anticipating the iPhone based on reports on macrumors.com. "Wait a second... that sounds familiar... don't we own that? Let's see here .... oh SH*T it expires in 5 days!" So much for Cisco's vaunted legal team.

By the way here are pics of the front of the box from real life:

http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11177592/Linksys_Cit200_Skype_VOIP_Cordless_Wireless_Phone.html

http://www.nokytech.net/linksys_cit200-249-z.html

Or just search ebay. No iPhone printed (or stuck) on the CIT200 boxes. It's clear that the CIT200 was never called the iPhone in real life, only in imaginary legal life.

This also explains Apple's hard line on Cisco. Apple was probably waiting quietly for the trademark to expire, and was more a bit annoyed at the tactics Cisco used to get a renewal.

Finally this explains Apple's hard line on rumor sites. If it hadn't been for rumors, Cisco may not have renewed the trademark.
 
mzlin said:
this explains Apple's hard line on rumor sites. If it hadn't been for rumors, Cisco may not have renewed the trademark.
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Exactly. But try explaining NDA's to people who report "news" and call themselves "journalists"... to them their freedom of speach exempt them from the liability related to an employee breaking their NDA and causing a company to lose money in terms of legal services or loss of profits. Few people seem to understand moral responsibility.
 
What's with people treating Cisco like some two-bit operation?

This isn't Creative we're talking about, or even Apple Corp., with some dinky office in London.

We're talking about a company that DWARFS Apple in size...

It's over twice the market cap of Apple.

It's got almost three times as many employees as Apple (and that's counting Apple's retail operations!).

It's got twice the cash on hand as Apple, which says a lot since Apple is a very cash-rich company.

Those of you saying Apple wouldn't be acting as they are if they didn't know what they're doing are clueless. This isn't some small shop that Apple will pull the wool over the eyes of - Cisco is a very formidable company whose team of lawyers, industry strength and experience are just as significant as Apple's, if not more.

Anyone who says Apple is "calling their bluff" might very well have it backwards...
 
What is meant by "interoperability"

"Cisco had wanted Apple to ensure interoperability between Cisco's Voice over IP Internet Phone (iPhone) and Apple's new iPhone mobile phone. Apple reportedly rejected this offer."

What is ensuring "interoperability" between the two phones? Making sure that people owning these two phones have the capability of placing phone calls to each other? Being able to sync these two devices with one another, like two Palm devices?

Interoperability could include many functions, or just one. I wonder how, specifically, Cisco wanted them to be interoperable?
 
Have a laugh you people - It'll All be sorted soon enough!

http://news.com.com/1606-12994_3-6150132.html?tag=ne.video.6150132

Check this link to CNET. Looks like Synaptics is a little flushed on missing out on some press time for their giant ruler phone.

As for Apples phone, I agree with a few other bloggers, it should just simply be called Apple phone and done. I care little about the name and more interested in the device itself. It's really flaming cool.
 
Just a note to everyone posting links to those multitouch demonstration videos... they work because there's a camera underneath, and the way a light is set up, bright dots appear to the camera where every finger is touching. The setup is HUGE and that method will never appear in a computer. It's a pretty big deal that Apple got this multitouch thing working on a normal screen.

It might be expensive as hell to produce for all we know. Besides, sliding your finger around a touch screen and having it register is really hard to do (and I don't mean just poking at number buttons). Try using a Nintendo DS with the tip of your finger, not a fingernail.

I don't think you guys realize how much of a paradigm shift this phone can really turn out to be...
 
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