Apple and Foxconn Admit Hiring Too Many Temporary Workers in China to Assemble iPhones, Potentially Violating Labor Laws

[paul4339]

All they will do is make them permanent and then fire them in February or something.

Other than a small difference in wage (ie overtime considerations) and benefits (if foxxcon even provides any), what's the real difference between permanent and temporary for factory workers in China?
I'm pretty sure it's not like the USA where the workers get 401K benefits from Foxxcon.

 

[MarkB786]

China has labor laws? Lol. Whatever. Obviously some here seem to think it was paradise over there for Foxconn workers. This report just came out of no where. So shocking. But let’s all take a min and pretend to care.

Ok done. See ya at the Apple event tomorrow!

Lovely materialistic mentality there. To heck with humans, as long as I get my iPhone!

 

[Kabeyun]

No one is really writing about the others because the others aren't calling attention to themselves.

I think it is because Apple and Tim Cook hold themselves as paragons of virtue.

Could well be. The hazards of giving a crap and saying so on the record. And since Apple can’t singlehandedly remedy working conditions in a supplier’s facoty half a world away, there will be a steady trickle of issues on which people will then be sure to indignantly pounce. Perhaps Apple would’ve been better off being like Huawei & Xiaomi & Samsung, etc. and not giving as much of a crap.

As for articles about Apple competitors... it's still probably about 25 or 30-to-1 for articles about Apple vs one of their competitors. This is still an Apple-centric site.

Of course it is. But when someone questions one of a steady stream of Android articles, the chorus, including from the mods, is that this is a tech enthusiast site with an Apple focus. So if articles on Android & Huawei & Samsung etc. qualify as “of interest,” then one wonders why articles like this and this don’t seem to be. I wonder if people really care about global factory working conditions and what they’re doing about it, or are they just bashers & slacktivists who mostly enjoy calling out Apple for not yet living up to what they hope to achieve.

 

[justperry]

For a moment let's focus on the bigger picture and not individual companies or even specific industries. There is a huge problem with the current mindset, focus, obsession...call it what you will...with the mantra of "growth at all cost". No longer is it acceptable, feasible or even wanted (by hedge funds, stockholders, Wall Street) for a good company (big or small sized) making excellent products in an ethical and honest manner, treating its employees with respect and decent remuneration to want to continue to do so without trying to grow / expand. This is the cancer of the current capitalism model and it will lead nowhere good.

This
Reminds me of something that 22 years ago happened, working at a big American Chocolate factory, I said to an engineer that perpetual growth is an utopia, got a foul face.
Couple of months later I quit my job and travelled the world for an extended period of time. (Over a decade)

First of all, no job that provides for yourself or your family is a garbage or menial job. Your stated belief on this is an arrogant and condescending way to look at the world and at the people who work these jobs to take care of themselves and others. Anyone who puts in a hard day’s work for whatever it pays has my respect and admiration.

I will do what I have to do to provide for myself and my family, so yes, I would work this job, but with worker protections that you find in America.

You have to make a decision about what you believe here because you’re expressing cognitive dissonance:

You’ve said these are garbage, menial jobs. However, you’re apparently ok with Chinese people doing these jobs in China... because that way it’s off your conscience. You can’t have it both ways.

On the other hand, I would support having these jobs here in the USA, with appropriate worker protections. Apple is an American company. It should bring these jobs back to the States.

And if things go the way of automation, that should happen here, not in China. There are jobs involved in automation you know.

Agree with most in your post, until you say "Apple is an American company. It should bring these jobs back to the States."

Here's were you amongst some other Americans go wrong, Apple is a global company, they sell much more outside of the States than locally, why should they place their orders to American companies?

 

[69Mustang]

Could well be. The hazards of giving a crap and saying so on the record. And since Apple can’t singlehandedly remedy working conditions in a supplier’s facoty half a world away, there will be a steady trickle of issues on which people will then be sure to indignantly pounce. Perhaps Apple would’ve been better off being like Huawei & Xiaomi & Samsung, etc. and not giving as much of a crap.

It's not a hazard of giving a crap. It's a hazard of using philanthropy and social conscientiousness as part of your marketing efforts. Lot's of companies give a crap. Not a lot of them market their caring like Apple does. So that I'm clear, that's not to say marketing your social efforts is wrong. It is saying that doing so brings a self inflicted spotlight. That spotlight shines brightly on the good and bad. Companies that aren't as vociferous about their good deeds don't have the same type of scrutiny.

Of course it is. But when someone questions one of a steady stream of Android articles, the chorus, including from the mods, is that this is a tech enthusiast site with an Apple focus. So if articles on Android & Huawei & Samsung etc. qualify as “of interest,” then one wonders why articles like this and this don’t seem to be. I wonder if people really care about global factory working conditions and what they’re doing about it, or are they just bashers & slacktivists who mostly enjoy calling out Apple for not yet living up to what they hope to achieve.

Articles that are nearly 4 and 5 years old really don't bolster your point... well, if your point was to illustrate the infrequency of reporting on those issues, then you succeeded. No one wonders why articles like those two aren't reported on more often. Everyone already knows. Apple generates more clicks. They generate more clicks when the subject matter is Apple products. They generate more clicks when other products are being compared to Apple's. It's simple. Most people don't care about factory working conditions beyond giving lip service to the topics as a point of discussion. Samsung phones catching fire. Clicks. Huawei cancelling their folding phone. Clicks. Apple v Samsung v Huawei... clicks, clicks, clicks.

 

[sbailey4]

Apple has a long history of abusing Chinese workers. When they were committing suicide over the abysmal working conditions their response was to install nets on the building so they couldn't jump to their death on work premises.

Not sure this said anything about “abusing workers “ but simply they hired to many temps. I don’t think any of those temps are being forced to work, much less work without compensation. Seems big bad Apple is getting s*** for creating jobs for those folks whether temp or perm. I would be willing to bet every single one of those folks are glad to have a job even ifs it’s a temporary one.

 

[LordVic]

Not sure this said anything about “abusing workers “ but simply they hired to many temps. I don’t think any of those temps are being forced to work, much less work without compensation. Seems big bad Apple is getting s*** for creating jobs for those folks whether temp or perm. I would be willing to bet every single one of those folks are glad to have a job even ifs it’s a temporary one.

This is a curiosity I have with this story as well.

How is there "too many workers"? maybe it's a bit of my naive western, free market knowledge, but if there's work, an employer wants to hire them, and hires them with reasonable salary (legal salaries), than how is it a violation of rights or worker rights?

But if a company is willing to pay for its employees. Makes sure the workplace can handle that many people, and can provide a safe work environment that doesn't violate safety requirements why is there a limit to number of employment?

It's just something we'd never see in the west, telling a business that they have already hired too many people.

 

[IPPlanMan]

This
Reminds me of something that 22 years ago happened, working at a big American Chocolate factory, I said to an engineer that perpetual growth is an utopia, got a foul face.
Couple of months later I quit my job and travelled the world for an extended period of time. (Over a decade)




Agree with most in your post, until you say "Apple is an American company. It should bring these jobs back to the States."

Here's were you amongst some other Americans go wrong, Apple is a global company, they sell much more outside of the States than locally, why should they place their orders to American companies?

Apple is an American company. It was founded in the United States and has its Corporate HQ here. You may consider them a global company based on where they sell stuff and that’s fine if you think that. However, no company would ever be considered an American company if that’s the standard you’re using.

Apple is not acting in the best interest of the American worker or the world when it outsources these jobs to companies within a communist regime that violates human rights.

These jobs should be brought back to America and Americans should have them, with appropriate worker protections. This will improve the quality of life for many in communities across the USA. As an American, I can have that opinion and I believe it’s well supported.

 

[brendu]

When will Apple and their ilk finally STOP using slave labor? When I stop buying their products?

Please define “slave”. It doesn’t mean what you think it means. These practices are upsetting but they aren’t akin to SLAVERY.
[doublepost=1568063246][/doublepost]

This
Reminds me of something that 22 years ago happened, working at a big American Chocolate factory, I said to an engineer that perpetual growth is an utopia, got a foul face.
Couple of months later I quit my job and travelled the world for an extended period of time. (Over a decade)




Agree with most in your post, until you say "Apple is an American company. It should bring these jobs back to the States."

Here's were you amongst some other Americans go wrong, Apple is a global company, they sell much more outside of the States than locally, why should they place their orders to American companies?

America and our capitalist system allowed the creation of Apple and allows them to continue to be a global leader in technology. Apple doesn’t owe it to Americans to manufacture products here but I get why people consider apple an American company. Their products don’t say “Designed by Apple on Earth” for a reason.

 

[cardfan]

Lovely materialistic mentality there. To heck with humans, as long as I get my iPhone!

Thanks man. I work hard at pretending to care about 3rd world issues in a communist country. How dare they hire too many temp workers. The nerve of them. I feel you. It’s gotta be rough over there.

 

[djgamble]

Lol 'may have breached' China's labour 'laws'. What labour laws? Are they gonna start applying these uniformly given everybody just runs amok anyway?

This is always code for 'China's economy is tanking so they're gonna hit up big foreign companies for cash'. I swear Apple should move its operations to India or Vietnam or something to demonstrate that China's only useful when they're cheap and cheerful.

 

[69Mustang]

Not sure this said anything about “abusing workers “ but simply they hired to many temps. I don’t think any of those temps are being forced to work, much less work without compensation. Seems big bad Apple is getting s*** for creating jobs for those folks whether temp or perm.

Two things. 1. MR's article is a partial summary. To get the full story you have to click the link to the actual report. There's a 50 page .pdf that goes into the details of the complaints. Some are trivial. Some are not. 2. Foxconn and Apple are getting s*** for allegedly violating Chinese labor laws, not for creating jobs.

This is a curiosity I have with this story as well.

It's just something we'd never see in the west, telling a business that they have already hired too many people.

They aren't telling a business that it hired too many people. They are claiming the business violated labor laws by having 50% of it's workforce as temps when the law allows for no more than 10%. Some of the abuses being claimed:

• The factory does not pay social insurance for the temp workers.
• Against regulations, student interns required to work overtime and nights
• Law says no more than 36 hrs overtime/mth. Workers sometimes getting 100 hrs OT
• If work not complete by end of shift, worker must work OT to complete it... unpaid.
• Issue at factory? Workers must stay 'til fixed... unpaid

List is longer. Link is attached to article.

 

[Rojaaemon]

The problem with modern capitalism is zero value is associated with providing a living for people. A company that paid every one of its employees millionaire salaries but then finished each year with zero profit would be considered a massive failure, whereas one that pushes all of its employees into de facto poverty and rewarded its CEO and handful of shareholders with billion dollar bonuses would be hailed as a huge success.

At this point the wealth inequality is beyond simple greed and is just spiteful evil. Tim Cook cannot possibly spend the money he's paid in 10 lifetimes yet he still wants to grind every cent out of his customers and employees as a perverse power play.

No doubt the workers in the modern Peoples Republic of China miss the precapitalist "good old days" of backbreaking agricultural labor in the commune, or the happy-go-lucky life of a beggar, thief, or prostitute. How sweet was life before the coming of Apple's (and Toyota's and Volkswagen's and Boeing's and Nestle's) "dark Satanic assembly plants".

 

[pika2000]

Every time apple gets caught out. “Oh sorry guys! We didn’t know. We are going to do better.” Get caught out again. “Oops… is it that bad? We didn’t know. Promise we’ll do better.”

Apple is really starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Lucky for Apple Google leaves an even worse taste.

Believe it or not, Apple was worse in this regard under Jobs. It's just that they are less transparent back then so we don't hear much about it. Jobs couldn't care less about workers welfare in the factories. And most silicon valley is as bad or worse. Despite the negative news, Apple is actually doing a better job than practically everybody else.

 

[sakurarain]

This issue has been there for years (my uncle had some business with foxconn 2 years ago), CLW just noticed illegal issue now? What a good time point~~~

 

[Kabeyun]

It's not a hazard of giving a crap. It's a hazard of using philanthropy and social conscientiousness as part of your marketing efforts. Lot's of companies give a crap. Not a lot of them market their caring like Apple does. So that I'm clear, that's not to say marketing your social efforts is wrong. It is saying that doing so brings a self inflicted spotlight. That spotlight shines brightly on the good and bad. Companies that aren't as vociferous about their good deeds don't have the same type of scrutiny.

Fair enough, but as far as I recall the correct timeline here wasn’t Apple suddenly marketing philanthropy and inviting accusations of hypocrisy. The turn of the century Think Different campaign angle was “cool maverick,” not “save the world,” and featured mostly artists & entertainers. Then the exposé on Foxconn hit in ‘06 (Google tells me) and those suicides there in ‘10, both while Jobs still led Apple, and people started pointing the finger at... Apple. No hypocrisy yet; just blaming the big customer. Also, as much as people love broadsides against “Timmy,” also remember that Apple’s efforts to influence Foxconn to improve happened after he took over, and, at least early on, helped. It just doesn’t take much in the way of optics (or biased reporting) to induce the hoard. As you suggested, it’s about clickiness, not truth.

Articles that are nearly 4 and 5 years old really don't bolster your point... well, if your point was to illustrate the infrequency of reporting on those issues, then you succeeded.

Just the first two I grabbed. Here’s this from last year. Or this from a few months prior. Just Googling the easy ones. Here’s a neat one no one probably knew about from four weeks ago about Foxconn hiring teenagers for its customer... Amazon. That article was never here, even though countless Foxconn articles are. The point, which I’ve now bolstered with recent news, is that the obvious problem isn’t Apple. It’s globalization by everyone leading to outsourcing fab to low-cost plants outside the western world there there aren’t unions, OSHA, or high standards of living. My point is that people love potshots & spin, and that includes MR editors too. As member Mac Fly posted, “Shouldn’t this read: ‘Apple-contractor Foxconn admits to hiring too many temporary workers. Apple investigates and makes statement, after China Labor Watch (CLW) brings the problem into the open.’”

Most people don't care about factory working conditions beyond giving lip service to the topics as a point of discussion.

On that we agree. I don’t actually wonder at all.

 

[wbeasley]

Are you not familiar with the idiom "skeletons in the closet?"

What else is lurking in Tim's closet = What other skeletons are lurking in Tim's closet

Perhaps if the post had said “Apple’s closet” it would have read better. Target Tim and it doesn’t.

We have the same issue in Australia where an airline gets target over the sexuality of the CEO and female football CEO gets attacked too with thinly veiled comments.

Attack the company if you want. Put them on notice for their policies. I actually think Apple should have know better about labor practices given how much they talk about fair work and environment.

 

[mwd25]

What’s dishonest about gaining a job, under false pretenses... for a purpose other than actually working to build the products you claim in the interview that you wish to do?
Ummmmmmmm.... you SURE you need hand-holding figuring that one out??
I’m not saying that level of dishonesty isn’t currently necessary to perform that job, btw... my only comment was that when AI is performing these rote jobs, thankfully- that job position can be all but eliminated as well.

Note:
In this case- “abusing” workers wasn’t even a vague allegation. Sounds like the report merely exposed an inordinate amount of temp vs. permanent employees.

Indeed. I cant wait until the extra 40% is out on the street unemployed. Im sure the under cover do gooders will be waiting outside the factory for the 40% of now fired workers to leave. Hopefully they will have giant signs saying, "China labor laws NOW being followed.....YOUR WELCOME!!!!!" This way the fired employees, who never complained and were thankful for the work, will know who to thank. I guess they live in some fantasy world where Foxconn will make the extra 40% of workers they only need 4 months of the year during ramp up, full time???? Not.

 

[Taipan]

And it wasn't apple listening to Siri audio, that was some outsourced company.

Are you saying this is comparable?
The difference is, Apple‘s contract required that company to listen to the audio, while I doubt that their contract with Foxconn includes employing 50% temps.

 

[Tech198]

I recon the sooner Apple start assembling more Apple products in U.S the better.



This wouldn't be the first time, and not the last either.

 

[justperry]

Apple is an American company. It was founded in the United States and has its Corporate HQ here. You may consider them a global company based on where they sell stuff and that’s fine if you think that. However, no company would ever be considered an American company if that’s the standard you’re using.

Apple is not acting in the best interest of the American worker or the world when it outsources these jobs to companies within a communist regime that violates human rights.

These jobs should be brought back to America and Americans should have them, with appropriate worker protections. This will improve the quality of life for many in communities across the USA. As an American, I can have that opinion and I believe it’s well supported.

So, should Philips, shell, ASML, ASM, NXP amongst other big Dutch companies bring jobs back to The Netherlands too, they are all global companies as Apple, I expect them to do business everywhere.
Sure you can have an opinion, nothing wrong with that, we just have different opinions then.

 

[TrentS]

Time to force Apple and "The Unnovator" Tim Cook to ship all these jobs back to America, and start making all apple products 100% in the USA!!

 

[Kabeyun]

Time to force Apple and "The Unnovator" Tim Cook to ship all these jobs back to America, and start making all apple products 100% in the USA!!

Turns out, unsurprisingly, it’s much more complicated than shouting “Bring ‘em back! Go USA!” First, what does “Made in USA” mean? Assembled in the US from imported components or built in the US from the ground up. iPhones would probably be much more expensive, but a more fundamental question is whether Americans can even do it. Here’s an interesting article about that. Sure, the title is a little tongue-in-cheek but it’s an interesting read about what it takes to actually build hundreds of millions of iPhones a year. Naturally, no need to read it if one is just the “Bring ‘em back! Go USA” type.

 

[Detnator]

The problem with modern capitalism is zero value is associated with providing a living for people. A company that paid every one of its employees millionaire salaries but then finished each year with zero profit would be considered a massive failure, whereas one that pushes all of its employees into de facto poverty and rewarded its CEO and handful of shareholders with billion dollar bonuses would be hailed as a huge success.

At this point the wealth inequality is beyond simple greed and is just spiteful evil. Tim Cook cannot possibly spend the money he's paid in 10 lifetimes yet he still wants to grind every cent out of his customers and employees as a perverse power play.

From what I hear he’s slowly giving almost all of his wealth away. And that’s not to try to glorify him. As a business person, in my opinion Bill Gates was downright evil, and everyone said similar things about his wealth as they are about Tim’s now. But what are Bill (and wife Melinda) up to now?

Needless to say I hardly think Tim’s efforts to do his job as he’s he’s been hired by the board and as he’s accountable to the board and the shareholders to do (that is, make Apple profitable as much as legally possible) is a perverse power play.

 

[Detnator]

For a moment let's focus on the bigger picture and not individual companies or even specific industries. There is a huge problem with the current mindset, focus, obsession...call it what you will...with the mantra of "growth at all cost". No longer is it acceptable, feasible or even wanted (by hedge funds, stockholders, Wall Street) for a good company (big or small sized) making excellent products in an ethical and honest manner, treating its employees with respect and decent remuneration to want to continue to do so without trying to grow / expand. This is the cancer of the current capitalism model and it will lead nowhere good.

Funny... I recently quit working for myself when I found a company that does all those things (“making excellent products in an ethical and honest manner, treating its employees with respect and decent remuneration”) and was able to get hired by them.

Awesome place to work. It’s the best job I’ve ever had on every level. And the customers are all exceedingly happy also (so none of this is at their expense).

The difference? It’s family owned. No shareholders, board, etc. It’s owned by the CEO and his wife.