Apple and Google Reveal How COVID-19 Exposure Notification Apps Will Function

[CarlJ]

So how does it handle if I am in my car at a stop light and people walk by or cars are next to me? I don't feel like being notified in those cases.

Were you at that stop light for more than 5 minutes? If not, then it won't get listed. Individual countries/states may be able to turn the granularity on that down (to, say, 10 or 15 minutes), depending on how they see the results mapping onto reality (e.g. lengthen the time if they get too many false positives).

Remember that this isn't necessarily going to catch every case of exposure, and it doesn't have to, in order to achieve the ultimate goal, which is to knock down the R0 number (the average number of additional people infected by each infected person), down below 1.0. Then the virus will die off. And keep in mind they don't want to have it constantly telling everyone to stay home / get tested just because someone walked by their house, outside, 30 feet away. Because that just puts a burden on testing facilities, healthcare facilities, and keeps people out of the workforce (if they can't shift to working from home at the drop of a hat).

 

[and 1989 others]

Well, I know what I wont be installing.

 

[CarlJ]

Hopefully it's not just keeping every single person you pass near for 5 seconds. One of the countries that did Bluetooth tracking like this had a minimum amount of time you had to be near that person I think. That might be up to the app using the API and not the API itself though.

Well, it'd be neat if the spec on exactly how all this is intended to work was publicly available for all to read, to answer such questions. Such a spec, if one were available, could say things like this:

The public health authority will define the way in which the app determines if someone has been exposed. To support this the system provides apps with both an estimate of time the user has been in contact with someone who has been diagnosed as positive for COVID-19 and the approximate distance between the users. Public health authorities will set a minimum threshold for time spent together, such that a user needs to be within Bluetooth range for at least 5 minutes to register a match. If the contact is longer than 5 minutes, the system will report time in increments of 5 minutes up to a maximum of 30 minutes to ensure privacy.​

[automerge]1588627782[/automerge]

It will collect user postcodes in the UK. Do your research.

I’m ok with the functionality but you can’t be like the tin foil hat folk and deny the facts.

The comment you replied to says, "Nope, the API prohibits collecting user data, prohibits GPS, and anonymizes contacts."

If you have evidence to the contrary, you will need to provide a citation. I've searched the spec for the API and don't find "UK" or "postcode" anywhere in it (which is as expected, as everything I've read goes against the idea of collecting such information). That might be something that a government app built on top of the API might collect. That is different than the API itself - which is what the comment you quoted specifically mentioned. Last I heard, the UK was going their own way, rather than using the Apple/Google-developed OS-level API. If you google "uk apple google contact tracing", you'll find all sorts of reporting on the UK not using the API, and nothing newer suggesting that they've changed their mind.

As you say, getting facts right is very important. Please so do.

 

[CarlJ]

How come almost no actual information about the "public health authority" apps... like exactly who do they come from.

Because Apple's not in charge of that. The public health authorities for each country (or state, if the country delegates) are in charge of that. Look to them for such information. I'm guessing they're nowhere near done writing such apps, and are reluctant to show them at this point.

 

[krfr]

Will not be enabling this.

 

[Cobalt50]

This has a lot of potential for bad.

 

[CarlJ]

This has a lot of potential for bad.

Not really. Go read the spec.

 

[SteveW928]

Hopefully you educate yourself (using reputable sources) on the differences between Covid-19 and the flu and stop spreading misinformation.

Yeah, I suggest the same to you. Maybe people are comparing it to the flu because that's roughly the closest thing to compare it to. The question is where to find these reputable sources these days.

 

[Jimmy Bubbles]

Cool, so they’re helping the USA rollout a Public Health System in the name of an “epidemic”. No thanks. I’ll keep my private healthcare!

 

[Adam Spicar]

Good insight Texas, comparing the worst pandemic in 100 years to the flu. This is why your country has the highest death rate and cases on earth.

This is not a pandemic Kyle. Where are you getting your information from?
[automerge]1588638822[/automerge]

I totally understand people being concerned about any sort of new tracking capabilities and wanting to better understand them, but the levels of willful ignorance about what the current pandemic is and why something like this might be necessary is truly depressing.

We really need a sticky post that simply repeats “Covid-19 is nothing like the flu” three times.

There is no pandemic anywhere but on TV. Media created a hysterical populace.

 

[Analog Kid]

Cool, so they’re helping the USA rollout a Public Health System in the name of an “epidemic”. No thanks. I’ll keep my private healthcare!

This is roughly the equivalent of saying that Google Maps is a plot to undermine private transportation... Not everything is a vast conspiracy.

 

[DEXTERITY]

Hopefully the OS will be updated for every single flu season, every single measles outbreak, in every town with a meningitis outbreak, and every single time someone sneezes so we can all feel safe and comfy around each other forever and ever.

I would rather be notified of when you catch the herps

 

[7149041]

It could be pretty much next to impossible to not walk past anyone for 14 days that tested positive.

In the last 6 weeks I’ve been out of my apartment 4 times to buy food, grocery store is limited to 50 people at a time, running into anyone at all is very unlikely 😉

 

[glowplug]

What are you supposed to do, quarantine yourself for 14 days every single time this thing goes off? Might as well just tell people to "stay inside" like they're already doing.

50 alerts later, the thing will just get silenced or deleted.

 

[Jimmy Bubbles]

This is roughly the equivalent of saying that Google Maps is a plot to undermine private transportation... Not everything is a vast conspiracy.

Are you familiar with the analogy of a frog in a boiling pot?

 

[applefan69]

It means go get tested ASAP , you may have the virus

Yeah so my phone goes off, I go get tested, during testing procedure I contract the virus? Or better case I dont have it at all & I wasted a test result. 3 days later, I get the alert again, first thought will be to ignore it not wanting to waste another test result/risk exposure again. Next thing I am actually exposed but hey Im not getting tested, waste of time that was last time, heck I am fine, I am not even going to tell anyone cause this dumb phone goes off all the time anyways.

This false "security" system would cause way more harm than good.
[automerge]1588645240[/automerge]

Not really. Go read the spec.

I read into it. I still dont like it.

What are you some superior intellect that just simply "understands it better"? Because that is what you sound like you think you are.

Cannot help but wonder where all these people who are absolutely thrilled about this idea are coming from...

 

[btrach144]

Is the CDC coming out with an app?

 

[Analog Kid]

Are you familiar with the analogy of a frog in a boiling pot?

Are you familiar with the analogy of a frog on a lily pad?

 

[yurc]

This is not a pandemic Kyle. Where are you getting your information from?
[automerge]1588638822[/automerge]

There is no pandemic anywhere but on TV. Media created a hysterical populace.

Unless you’re loved one death, best pals or our parents. Death by sars-cov-2 are serious, especially if they already in bad health condition.

I am wonder why some people keep underestimating it.

 

[Aston441]

People are upset at even the idea of this because rawr, privacy, but at the end of the day, a robust and reliable contact tracing system where we can identify and isolate affected individuals would allow us to never have to shut down the economy again, even in the case of future new waves of COVID or any other similar virus/disease for which we do not currently have a cure.

I think a lot of people will accept that, given the two options.

Fine.

I agree.

Since this is so important how about THEY OPEN SOURCE THE CODE so we can all see for ourselves.

TRUST BUT VERIFY.

If they won’t let us look at the code, then they are hiding something.

 

[Aston441]

I would rather be notified of when you catch the herps

I agree. STDs can cause sterility, birth defects, and death.

WE SHOULD HAVE CONTACT TRACING FOR ALL STDs Especially HIV!

 

[Juan007]

I will not install this under any circumstances and I suggest you think long and hard about the ways this will be misused.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

Does this become the “backdoor” that the government was looking for with regard to other privacy things? I’m ignorant on this one, I’m actually posting this to learn and be more educated on the subject matter.

Unlikely. Even this API had a backdoor there would be little to be gained from a database of temporary and unidentifiable keys.
[automerge]1588655157[/automerge]

I will not install this under any circumstances and I suggest you think long and hard about the ways this will be misused.

Can you give an example of how this can be misused?
[automerge]1588655374[/automerge]

50 alerts later, the thing will just get silenced or deleted.

If you're getting 50 alerts, you are either in a highly infected area or you aren't doing social distancing right.

 

[glowplug]

Hopefully this will at least save a few lives!

This is not going to save lives. If anything, the false positives and false negatives will end up doing more harm than good.

Contact-tracing apps are not a solution to the COVID-19 crisis | Brookings

Although Apple and Google’s proposals for voluntary, anonymous contact tracing apps have been well received by some, they will likely serve as vehicles for abuse, disinformation, and a false sense of security to justify easing economic lockdowns.

www.brookings.edu

 

[lyngo]

Unlikely. Even this API had a backdoor there would be little to be gained from a database of temporary and unidentifiable keys.
[automerge]1588655157[/automerge]

Can you give an example of how this can be misused?
[automerge]1588655374[/automerge]

If you're getting 50 alerts, you are either in a highly infected area or you aren't doing social distancing right.

Thank you for sharing this some with me instead of just downvoting it with explaining things to me. It’s appreciated. The temporary nature of the files makes sense.