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Apple and Google to Testify at Congressional Hearings on Privacy

Full of Win said:
Get statements UNDER OATH and bring charges if Apple tries to spew lies and half truths. I would love to see Apple executives do the perp walk if they lie during this hearing.
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LOL! Funny... another Apple conspiracy in the works. They better get those liars at Google too! :rolleyes:
 
Sayer said:
Good to see the Senate taking up such pressing issues as, wifi hotspot and cell tower locations to make GPS actually usable on a mobile device.

I guess the Senate doesn't have to drive 15 miles, one way, to work every day with $4-5/gallon gas prices. And they don't have to actually pay their debt, since they can just print more money and sell debt to China/Japan/England.

Good to see the priorities of the country are still "stuck on stupid."
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According to the International Energy Agency's most recent report conventional global oil production peaked in 2006, and global supply is/will plateau for the next 20 or so years thanks to supplimental (expensive) oil production such from sources like tar sands and natural gas.

The price of oil is not going down, and there isn't anything the government can do about it short of subsidizing the industry more then it already does, or drastically reducing worldwide demand.
 
chirpie said:
This has got to be the most frustrating thing in the world to sit there and have someone who is your absolute intellectual inferior (on this subject) sit there and tell you how to do your job.
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Imagine being an engineer at RIM

Full of Win said:
Get statements UNDER OATH and bring charges if Apple tries to spew lies and half truths. I would love to see Apple executives do the perp walk if they lie during this hearing.
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This is not an investigation, they are asking companies to help them understand the issues for future legislation...
 
Great... The Senate Clown is in charge...

attachment.php


So, what's it going to be now?... "Keep on gathering info, but you are now required to turn it over to us so we can keep our fingers into every little thing that everybody does." :eek:
 
KnightWRX said:
Uh ? As an american, you should know that the constitution does not apply to private entities like Apple and Google and if anyone with a law degree were to ask such a stupid question in regards to being summoned to a Senate hearing, I'd hope they'd be disbarred and publicly ridiculed.
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Thank you Mr. Know It All Expert On Constitutional Law from Canada.
 
Out of the pot

'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.'
- 4th Amendment of the United States Constitution


;) Ever heard the expression 'use it or lose it'?

It applies as well to our Constitutional rights, and particularly our 4th which is being assiduously shredded by corporations and our government. Believe it or not you have a right to privacy, although those willing to relinquish it will see it soon enough gone.

Even now the NSA is busy data mining your personal correspondences and financial records. None of which happens to be Constitutional by the way, if technically legal because of an illegal law. Questionable practices of Apple, Google and others are but sorry addition to all that is wrong.

This matters all the more since our US Supreme Court improperly sold our vote to corporations. In this world they matter, their lackeys in government do, but YOU increasingly do not. Anyone failing to observe and protest that is in serious trouble, and this nation collectively.

Just how hot does the water have to get little frog?
 
Full of Win said:
Get statements UNDER OATH and bring charges if Apple tries to spew lies and half truths. I would love to see Apple executives do the perp walk if they lie during this hearing.
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It's a shame the same couldn't apply to Full Of here. It would make for a much more pleasant neighborhood.
 
TTarkas said:
Why in the world would anyone appear voluntarily in front of a senate panel? How did that work out for the athletes that are now under indictment for perjury after testifying about steroids? They had broken no federal law and testified as a courtesy. Then they are in big trouble.

I would request from the Senate a complete description of which part of the constitution they suspect had been violated. Then a full discussion regarding the subject of limited federal government as designed by the founders.

Then I would tell them to go to HAIL.


Now ... I fully believe that Apple and Google should be completely responsible to their customers regarding this issue. And my gut tells me that I trust Apple more than Google, but I could be wrong. But it's none of the Government's business. It is not, and never has been the business of the government to protect the consumer.
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Time to pull that teabag. Getting a bit soggy.
 
TTarkas said:
It is not, and never has been the business of the government to protect the consumer.
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I suppose you are unfamiliar with Social Contact Theory? If so, essentially citizens agree to be governed in exchange for protection from negligence, fraud, and/or violence.

Though this matter may seem frivolous to you, it surely falls under the realm of what government does.
 
ten-oak-druid said:
People who minimize the importance of privacy don't get it.

Sure you can say there is no abuse of the privacy, etc.
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Blah, blah. The point is that this particular location file does NOT violate anyone's privacy. With all the charts, maps, comments here at MR this week over this ridiculous issue, I would've thought more people would understand the utter insignificance of this file by now.
wovel said:
This is not an investigation, they are asking companies to help them understand the issues for future legislation...
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Not to be conspiratorial, but do you really believe that?
scottsjack said:
Thank you Mr. Know It All Expert On Constitutional Law from Canada.
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He's right, what's your problem?

The US Constitution is a set of rules for the Federal Government. Not Apple, not me, not you. It has been applied to lower Governments, as well. That is what it is. You should understand this if you want to discuss it. This is where it was different when they set it up. (different from virtually every other country in history) By contrast, the US Code is a set of rules for you and me, and companies. We as individuals have to follow those rules. The govts have to follow the Constitution. It's so simple, I just don't get why so many don't get this.
 
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People here do realize that the purpose of hearings like this is not to find anyone guilty, but to see if there's an industry practice that needs to be legislated.

In other words... the government wants to see if they need to make some new laws surrounding smart phones and location tracking.

The down side is, if they don't understand what really happens here, they could restrict things in such a way that we loose functionality. That is my fear.
 
The below is exactly what I've been driving at in other threads. Well said...

ten-oak-druid said:
People who minimize the importance of privacy don't get it.

Sure you can say there is no abuse of the privacy, etc. Yet it is still important to fight for rights. Establishing precedent that privacy rights are "quaint" and unnecessary now makes it more difficult for later generations to use those rights when they might be necessary. The world is not static.

The rate at which rights are abandoned is also a factor. Shrugging off privacy rights now on seemingly harmless data gathering data makes it easier for entities to take the next step 5 years from now and use that data in some fashion without permission. At that point it isn't gathering and using data without consent that would be new. It would only be trivial usage. After all the gathering would have been going on and everyone is use to that. Five years after that another incremental step won't be such a shock. Its the frog in boiling water vs. the frog in water slowly warming. Take too big a step to infringe on rights and people get concerned. Take small incremental steps and people don't notice.

Finally, there is an issue with what I call modern day peasants. These are the people who will rally to the cause of the ultra rich or mega corporations at the expense of themselves. In one breath they support a company going to court over corporate espionage or infringement of intellectual property. But when it is the little guy wanting to fight for a personal right, the support of the modern day peasant isn't there. Especially if it is the little guy vs. the government or a large corporate entity. The modern day peasant a sycophant . Like the peasant of medieval times, he or she kisses up to the local lord thinking someday the favor will be returned. The lord, CEO or politician really has no interest in inviting the peasant to the castle or country club but appreciates the loyalty.
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ten-oak-druid said:
While some may argue that Apple and the iphone user have an agreement that allows Apple to collect data in one fashion or another, the agreement cannot be made if the iphone owner knows nothing about it.

Collection of data needs to be disclosed to the public in order for individuals to be able to make a choice. I don't know if a company can be made to offer a choice of collection or no collection . Perhaps it is their right to say if you buy this, this is how it works. But at the very least they have to tell you that is how it works. If not legally bound to offer the ability to stop data collection, I would think a company that offers the choice has a better public image. ...CLIP
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Remember all those little boxes that popped up saying "this app wants to use location information, is that OK?" and you checked "yes?" Well, that was your agreement to allow them to gather the data. The overall agreement you so blithely agreed to when you bought the device and activated it included language that gives apple and its subsidiaries and partners the right to collect that location information. If you, as a consumer, didn't read the agreement, then it's not Apple's problem that you agreed to an unread document. As a consumer, you have to assume responsibility for what you agree to when when buy stuff.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

Why is this an issue? Apple is just trying to provide you with better service by gathering some anonymous data. Has anybody heard what a few state governments are trying to do? They want to installGPS devices in vehicles so they can tax your milage. You know because odometers don't already do that. http://www.kare11.com/news/article/919754/396/MnDOT-to-test-drivers-mileage-tax
They are trying to track you and use the data to possibly give you speeding tickets. Stop paying attention to side show news and read real stories.
 
read the terms and conditions

:D human centipad with senators, guess who is going to be in the middle ?
 
TTarkas said:
Why in the world would anyone appear voluntarily in front of a senate panel? How did that work out for the athletes that are now under indictment for perjury after testifying about steroids? They had broken no federal law and testified as a courtesy. Then they are in big trouble.

I would request from the Senate a complete description of which part of the constitution they suspect had been violated. Then a full discussion regarding the subject of limited federal government as designed by the founders.

Then I would tell them to go to HAIL.


Now ... I fully believe that Apple and Google should be completely responsible to their customers regarding this issue. And my gut tells me that I trust Apple more than Google, but I could be wrong. But it's none of the Government's business. It is not, and never has been the business of the government to protect the consumer.
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They voluntary appear because it would look bad if they didn't, and there can be new laws and regulations written up by the people who would like to talk to them and get their side of the story. That would mean that any location data tied to an account could bring large fines... Or they can explain their vision, that they made a mistake in not encrypting it, and that it won't happen again. And they can talk about the benefits to anonymous location gathering of iPhone users (traffic, maps, locate friends, where do we need to build more towers...)

It is now the job of the government to protect the consumer. There is a new federal agency that does that and I am happy that I don't have to be an expert on all things to catch when someone is trying to screw me.
 
jakerichva said:
Remember all those little boxes that popped up saying "this app wants to use location information, is that OK?" and you checked "yes?" Well, that was your agreement to allow them to gather the data. The overall agreement you so blithely agreed to when you bought the device and activated it included language that gives apple and its subsidiaries and partners the right to collect that location information. If you, as a consumer, didn't read the agreement, then it's not Apple's problem that you agreed to an unread document. As a consumer, you have to assume responsibility for what you agree to when when buy stuff.
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And you should remember that even if someone clicked no and turned off location services - the file was still created. Apple admitted to it.

So no - ultimately - even with a choice - there was NO choice.
 
Full of Win said:
Get statements UNDER OATH and bring charges if Apple tries to spew lies and half truths. I would love to see Apple executives do the perp walk if they lie during this hearing.
Click to expand...

Ironic coming from the king or lies and half truths. The king troll and goo fan. I hope google gets shut down.
 
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