I think your point is valid in the near term, but go out 10 years and I think you'll see a very different landscape. College, first of all, is very different from K-12. Professors often write their own material and have it used by colleagues and themselves. So I think the first changes will happen at this level in education. The K-12 will, granted, take longer, but it will happen for the very reasons you listed above, in particular, the State adaption one along with all the other 'pass muster' reasons. The adaption process has evolved to a point of pedagogically correct texts that is driven by only a few States. What California, Texas, New York and Illinois adapt become the default texts for many smaller States unable to command attention/control of the publishing giants. What I think will evolve, particularly regarding Charter schools, is the adaption of a different text/content vetting method than just what's handed down by adaption boards at big States: college professors writing material themselves for (to begin) select high school curricula. The politics and finance of textbook purchasing has gotten to the point that many districts/schools/teachers would welcome an option that made better business sense. Finally, I don't see the large packaging that we have now continuing. Teaching Geometry, for example, wouldn't mean necessarily a full huge text placed in digital form. Rather, I think you'll see a more eclectic ad hoc approach to the content as defined by a State standards body. Shopping around for how you address that, textwise, is where the change will come. This is going to happen regardless of what Apple comes up with next week.
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Apple and McGraw-Hill Reportedly Collaborating on e-Textbook Tablet Offerings
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I think your point is valid in the near term, but go out 10 years and I think you'll see a very different landscape. College, first of all, is very different from K-12. Professors often write their own material and have it used by colleagues and themselves. So I think the first changes will happen at this level in education. The K-12 will, granted, take longer, but it will happen for the very reasons you listed above, in particular, the State adaption one along with all the other 'pass muster' reasons. The adaption process has evolved to a point of pedagogically correct texts that is driven by only a few States. What California, Texas, New York and Illinois adapt become the default texts for many smaller States unable to command attention/control of the publishing giants. What I think will evolve, particularly regarding Charter schools, is the adaption of a different text/content vetting method than just what's handed down by adaption boards at big States: college professors writing material themselves for (to begin) select high school curricula. The politics and finance of textbook purchasing has gotten to the point that many districts/schools/teachers would welcome an option that made better business sense. Finally, I don't see the large packaging that we have now continuing. Teaching Geometry, for example, wouldn't mean necessarily a full huge text placed in digital form. Rather, I think you'll see a more eclectic ad hoc approach to the content as defined by a State standards body. Shopping around for how you address that, textwise, is where the change will come. This is going to happen regardless of what Apple comes up with next week.
I loved ebook Text Books
When I was in my MBA program all of my books were ebooks, I could read them online and/or as a PDF. I still have all books located in one file, can use a word search in them, and take notes in them (using Adobe). I would have loved to have had an e-reader at the time. I also teach at a community college part time that uses ebooks and the students love them. At my day job, our training program use online guides and they are great. It is cheaper (for students/employer) and better for the environment, bring on the Tablet!!!!
Jeff
When I was in my MBA program all of my books were ebooks, I could read them online and/or as a PDF. I still have all books located in one file, can use a word search in them, and take notes in them (using Adobe). I would have loved to have had an e-reader at the time. I also teach at a community college part time that uses ebooks and the students love them. At my day job, our training program use online guides and they are great. It is cheaper (for students/employer) and better for the environment, bring on the Tablet!!!!
Jeff
I guess it would be cool for some cases, like introductory subjects like Math, Physics, etc.
But as an engineering student, I think I wouldn't enjoy it. Maybe having a combo where you can get the e-book for a little extra price when you buy the physical book.
Besides, just imagine all students with their Tablets out, what's going to stop them from playing Monkey Ball in the middle of the class?
Or when you need your books for an exam, having a Tablet with you is going to be prohibited, since you have access to internet an IM with it, making it the perfect cheating machine.
But as an engineering student, I think I wouldn't enjoy it. Maybe having a combo where you can get the e-book for a little extra price when you buy the physical book.
Besides, just imagine all students with their Tablets out, what's going to stop them from playing Monkey Ball in the middle of the class?
Or when you need your books for an exam, having a Tablet with you is going to be prohibited, since you have access to internet an IM with it, making it the perfect cheating machine.
Well this can't be right...we've been told endlessly for several weeks (and a bunch of times in this thread) that this whole idea is a massive fail. You must be mistaken.
I love how all the anxiety and snarkiness comes out--what happens when we lose our tablets, what happens when it crashes, what happens when the battery dies, it's going to be way more expensive....Come on, people, it will all work out. Settle down.
Send $10 bucks to the Red Cross and don't sweat the small stuff.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)
McGraw-Hill owns Business Week. Depending on how well the corporate firewall worked, BW may have insider info.
McGraw-Hill owns Business Week. Depending on how well the corporate firewall worked, BW may have insider info.
So much potential in this.
The texts would probably never expire, not the Apple Way.
Marking up the texts would be allowable. Apple has inkwell and other hand writing recognition software. If they are stored as pdf's its easy to add annotations. Attach notes, pictures, sound files. Record the professor explaining something complicated and store the movie file next to the page in textbook! Triple tap a sentence and it is highlighted with a raggedy edged highlighter, just like text books.
The texts themselves can improve. Diagrams of things happening in a sequence become animations or flip books.
I spent about $300 a semester for engineering texts (almost 20 years ago). If they were half price because they were in a digital format it would pay for a $1200 tablet.
As for limiting IM you could have a "Test Mode" built into the tablet which could restrict applications, no IM, no email, no Web access. If the tests were given on the table you could sign the results with the tablet id and test mode status.
There is so much potential for win with this.
The texts would probably never expire, not the Apple Way.
Marking up the texts would be allowable. Apple has inkwell and other hand writing recognition software. If they are stored as pdf's its easy to add annotations. Attach notes, pictures, sound files. Record the professor explaining something complicated and store the movie file next to the page in textbook! Triple tap a sentence and it is highlighted with a raggedy edged highlighter, just like text books.
The texts themselves can improve. Diagrams of things happening in a sequence become animations or flip books.
I spent about $300 a semester for engineering texts (almost 20 years ago). If they were half price because they were in a digital format it would pay for a $1200 tablet.
As for limiting IM you could have a "Test Mode" built into the tablet which could restrict applications, no IM, no email, no Web access. If the tests were given on the table you could sign the results with the tablet id and test mode status.
There is so much potential for win with this.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 3_1_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/528.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile/7D11 Safari/528.16)
Scratch that, just found out that BW was sold to Bloomberg in October last year. Sorry for the error.
Scratch that, just found out that BW was sold to Bloomberg in October last year. Sorry for the error.
If you lose your backpack you go to your school bookstore and buy another book and/or share with a friend. If you lose your tablet are you going to go out right away and buy another tablet? Stupid argument.
Expiration is rarely an issue with textbooks. "New editions" are just a slimy way to force people to buy new copies when they don't actually contain more information. The potential for publishing companies to screw their customers is much easier with digital editions because it eliminates the used book market.
Course Smart books DO expire after a year.
I agree though, i can't imagine Apple doing the rental thing - not at the current prices being close to physical book prices and lacking extra content.
Right, because how often is your Mac, iPod or iPhone bricked? Every time you sync or use TM (which I would recommend, and I do, at least once every 48 hours), you backup. Firstly, It's seemingly impossible to brick any of these three products. However, if you do, simply restore the iPod/iPhone and reinstall OS X from the DVD, and then restore the system using iTunes or TM respectively. Given how much Apple has recommended backing up, you can definitely count on this device syncing/backing up with either iTunes, OSX/XP or an external - definitely backing up in some shape or form. Personally, I've never had an iPhone, iPod or Mac become a brick. For those that do have this happen, if they've taken the stupid-proof measures, they'll never lose data and can have the hardware replaced at the genius bar within a reasonable amount of time. Plus, I'm sure this content will be readable on another source, such as a computer should your tablet be bricked.
Nope, you're not screwed, because you backed up your media. Did you lose your tablet? Yes. Will you lose your books and media on your tablet? No. Was it your fault for leaving your bag by itself while you ran to the bathroom? Yes.
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner. Textbook companies lose a lot to the resale of books.
Agreed. I have three engineering degrees and would have hated ebooks. The screen is too small, the search function wouldn't work well with engineering texts, it would be hard to annotate since the software isn't math-aware, etc.
One thing that I forgot to mention is that it is easier to have customized additions.
A biotext without evolution for Kansas. Math texts for New York that don't have the things which aren't on the regents exams.
Chapters could be pulled out by just checking a box.
You could even do a pay as you go deal. Imagine an Electrical Engineering text/app. Intro to EE has a dozen chapters, When it comes time to buy integrated circuit design you can do an in app purchase for those chapters. If you focus more on power engineering you buy those chapters. Any place where is overlap you won't have to buy the same information twice.
Homework can be built into the text. Bundle in an educational version of mathematica or maple. Drag numbers from the text into position in equations.
/so much possible win
//starting to drool...
A biotext without evolution for Kansas. Math texts for New York that don't have the things which aren't on the regents exams.
Chapters could be pulled out by just checking a box.
You could even do a pay as you go deal. Imagine an Electrical Engineering text/app. Intro to EE has a dozen chapters, When it comes time to buy integrated circuit design you can do an in app purchase for those chapters. If you focus more on power engineering you buy those chapters. Any place where is overlap you won't have to buy the same information twice.
Homework can be built into the text. Bundle in an educational version of mathematica or maple. Drag numbers from the text into position in equations.
/so much possible win
//starting to drool...
Actually they don't, they sold it to Bloomberg, but I get your point about inside information.
cmaier is, of course, right about how textbook publishers work and why you won't see discounts from the industry.
Having said that, I can think of three reasons why textbooks on a tablet would be great: 1) notes and searching; 2) they have to be somewhere if print is dying; 3) updates.
But textbooks will remain expensive. These publishing companies didn't create their monopolies in order to see Apple come in and destroy their profits. These are smart people . . . unlike the music and movie folk. Guess it must be all those business textbooks they read.
Software can be math aware. Imagine the steam tables where everything has units built into the numbers. Drag them into a holding area to manipulate...
Applescript from way back when had the ability to store units on numbers. You could have 12 inches and then coerce it into meters.
try this in script editor.
12 as inches as meters
--meters 0.3048
It works in Snow Leopard. It worked in 7.6.
This could make grapher and a few other things hidden away useful.
Winder how the governor will solve that??
(first story i found on it)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/09/arnold-schwarzenegger-school-textbooks-ebooks
I'm still thinking that Steve and the Arnold are in cohoots on this somehow.... but it makes things move forward faster for ME, and makes them possibly cheaper.... well, we shall see how it plays out soon!
I wrote a textbook in HTML format. The hyperlinks as well as a search engine makes finding sections far easier than a printed text (also available, by the way, but it doesn't sell as well). A particular benefit for my subject matter (microcontroller programming) is I can embed operating computer simulations directly in the text and students can also copy example code to try and modify. Since the text is read using a browser, all web page tagging techniques apply. You can find things using Spotlight on the Mac.
I am not sure Apple would be a winner here. Since it owns just 5% of computer market and even smaller fraction of the phone market it is highly unlikely that Apple would get any exclusivity here. And given a choice what do you think most students would prefer: to carry a $1K iPad with crippled OS around the campus or a $400 Windows 7/Ubuntu based netbook or netpad?
That's not "math," at least not the kind of math that matters to engineers. Try searching for a particular calculus proof - how do you enter mathematical symbols into the search box? How do you take math notes when some dopey handwriting recognition keeps trying to turn your integral symbol into an "s." Or, if it lets you just write free ink, try doing a complicated math derivation with your finger on a 10" screen. I'll take a pencil and the margins of a real textbook any time.
The fact that an ebook version of an engineering textbook can double as a fancy calculator is of no interest to me if it can't also function as a proper textbook. I had my matlab and my HP-48 for calculations. That's not what a textbook is for. (Indeed, of what use is learning to perform calculations by using my textbook to "drag things into holding areas to manipulate them?" When I get a job I'm going to have to use a computer or calculator or pencil and paper to do my work - learning a textbook-specific user interface to perform a particular task is of no use to anyone.
Calculus I, $275 for the book. I guess med school is where it's at... And all my upper level Engineering books are about $200 each. I know it's different for each school and for whatever you are studying. My brothers wife just graduated from gonzaga this last spring with a BS in nursing and I remember one of her books were 400. I can see eBooks being cheaper than their paper brethren but it's still a textbook and will cost an arm and a leg. If apple can make etextbooks work well and look beautiful and if you could "write" on the pages for notes and have a highlighter I will definately buy their tablet
I got my engineering ph.d in 1996, and even back then several books each year were north of $200. I got my law degree in 2006, and back then more than half my texts were more than $200. Some of the big ones were more than $300. Hence used books were very very popular.
DVD had significant advantages over VHS without any downside. There is plenty of downside for eBook (especially eTextbooks) over physical.
There is no resale. You can't buy used (which is cheaper than the eBook price) and you can't sell used (which recoups most of what you paid).
They are not permanent. Most Textbook publishers already offer their books in eBook format. They are all time limited, meaning after 6 months or a year, you can't read it anymore.
The prices (so far) are not compelling. Why pay 70-80% of list (list, not Amazon) for a product you can't sell back and will lose after XX months?
You're much better off buying used and selling used. Of course, thanks to the ****ing activation codes for "enhanced content", it's getting harder to do this anymore.
The publishers are dying for this to happen so that they can completely kill the used textbook market. Do not expect this to cause a reduction in prices. It will only increase their revenues.
I went to a University of California campus for five years. In a typical quarter (10 weeks), I attended four classes. I spent about $100 on books for each class.
So $100 x 4 classes x 3 quarters x 5 years = $6,000. Or 3 VERY decent MacBook Pros! I would gladly spend say, $800 on a tablet and download my 60 books at ~$50. Or rent them for even less! I've kept maybe 10-15 of my books for future reference - the rest I gave/sold to friends or sold to the university bookstore at a HUGE loss (bought new for $100, sell back for $30; store then sells it to someone for $85).
The textbook market needs a good shakeup like the record industry did in the early 2000s. Remember $20-25 CDs? What are they now, $10-15? In my opinion, an Apple book store and tablet would be a welcome change.
Of course you would. But why would the textbook publishers do that? Right now they get $6,000 from you. What miracle of charity will possess public companies that have to answer to their shareholders to allow you to rent books at less than half the price, the end result being that they earn less money?
I keep saying it, but remember - this is an industry that makes it a practice to update textbooks as often as possible, whether necessary or not, just to destroy the value of the used books from the previous edition. This is not an industry that wants to make your life easy and inexpensive.