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Gotta love the fact that our government is so terrible that bitter corporate enemies are putting aside their differences...

Too bad the American people can't do the same. :( We're letting the media and gov't, as well as the corporations, play a game where everything thinks they are locked into two opposing political 'teams' while they all get away with anything they like.

What we have here is basically the two big interests in a power struggle, even if I have to applaud M$ on this particular point, overall.

But, yes, saying the USA government is terrible is an understatement. :(


Where is Facebook?

Wait, Zuckberger is in Kenya on a Safari
View attachment 648111

Heh, probably promoting his 'free' Facebook™ 'internet' service for the country. At least the rocket/satellite explosion was hopefully a slight set-back.

It's a tough one, if you get rid of government corporations go wild and get rid of corporations governments go wild.

And, when they are largely in cahoots....? Yes, good government regulation is necessary to keep the corporations in check, but unfortunately, we have a bloated corrupt gov't that doesn't have proper regulations in place. It's the worst of both worlds.

Oh, I understand. I know in my head that that which is now "Microsoft" is doing a lot of good things, but it's still hard to retrain my automatic reaction built up during the two decades prior that saw a lot of mean and unhelpful things done under the Microsoft banner

No kidding, same here. And, I'm also having a hard time adjusting to my tech-hero, Apple, heading towards evil-corp. :(

It's great that Bill Gates is now a philanthropist, but his position reminds me of the robber barons of a century or so ago, who hurt a lot of people in the course of amassing fortunes, then ran around endowing schools and such to assuage their guilt. I love what he's doing now, but I don't think of him as benevolent and blameless.

Just remember that all charity isn't necessarily good, either. He's got his fingers in a lot of things under the guise of philanthropy that aren't necessarily positive. But, even so, yes how he got all that wealth is certainly questionable, and he set the tech industry back decades.
 
If CEO Cook lied about small things, then why would he tell the truth about big things?
Do you actually look at the articles you link to, or do you just think that having links in your post makes your argument appear stronger? Your link is to a Macalope article. The Macalope lampoons tech journalists and analysts in much the same way that The Daily Show and the (alas, no more) Colbert Report highlight the idiocy of politicians. The article you reference is showing what an idiot some tech industry analyst is for suggesting/not-quite-claiming that Tim Cook lied about the reasons for not divulging Apple Watch sales figures, by showing that the actual reason stated by Tim Cook is simpler and makes a lot more sense than the fearmongering conspiracy theory advanced by the analyst. In short, the article you linked to is showing the exact opposite of what you claim.

Referencing this article, as evidence that Tim Cook lies, makes you appear rather inept and foolish.
 
Here's a good example of private companies caring more about citizen's rights then the Government. I find it ironic that liberals always put all their faith in the Government to solve problems and discount private companies as being the problem. In many cases those companies are actually the ones looking out for the citizens.

Where did you get the notion that liberals "put all their faith in the Government..." ???? That can't be further from the truth. There are a lot of liberals who are fiscally conservative. There are a lot of conservatives who are socially liberal. From what I understand both liberals and conservatives want the same thing: their government to work properly.
 
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Where did you get the notion that liberals "put all their faith in the Government..." ???? That can't be further from the truth. There are a lot of liberals who are fiscally conservative. There are a lot of conservatives who are socially liberal. From what I understand both liberals and conservatives want the same thing: their government to work properly.

True, but if I can offer a possible interpretation of his statement that would make more sense, let me say that liberals often do decide to work through the government rather than through individual responsibility, in every case that I can think of. Every time a liberal cause bubbles to the surface it is generally accompanied by a flurry of interest in getting the government to "do something". A lot of times the cause may be just but when the tool used to achieve it isn't a public consensus but rather government coercion, I see it as a great evil.
As an example, I know many people that fervently wish there was less drug abuse, but setting up a draconian mechanism that imprisons tens of thousands of people and costs many more people their jobs, homes, and most everything else isn't the way to achieve that wish. Nor is mandatory "education programs" paid for with money stolen through taxation.

As a side note, I generally try to avoid using polarizing terms like "liberal". While the term itself may be an accurate description of a particular person and/or their position, I find it is more often than not used as a pejorative, and a lazy one at that. It is intended to cause an immediate and emotional reaction in the listener, and cause the person facing the suspected "liberal" to assume their ideas fit into a neat position. More evidence of the polarizing effect government has on honest debate, but thats another story.

A "liberal" in the classic sense is not much different than the paleo version of a conservative. A simple comparison would be to say the paleoliberal wants personal freedom guaranteed by government, whereas the paleoconservative wants the same, just with much smaller government. Both of them compare favorably to the neolibs and neocons, each of which are offshoots of truly dangerous people, the Progressives. That movement arose in the very late 19th century and counts such luminaries as Teddy Roosevelt amongst their numbers. Their doctrines included eugenics and protofacism. They preached a collective welfare that was the root of today's public education, military interventionism, monetary policy, and elimination of personal freedom.
Progressivism was allowed to split into those two factions. Roosevelt's social justice was split away from his military interventionism. The social justice faction grew into the neolibs like LBJ and the Feinstein/Schumer/Reid crew, and his "big stick" wound up with William F Buckley and the military/industrial alliance. Both have come home to roost in the same henhouse today as certain pols preach security through loss of personal privacy, feel good laws that offer state favors towards protected groups, and endless war with the rest of the world.
 
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True, but if I can offer a possible interpretation of his statement that would make more sense, let me say that liberals often do decide to work through the government rather than through individual responsibility, in every case that I can think of. Every time a liberal cause bubbles to the surface it is generally accompanied by a flurry of interest in getting the government to "do something". A lot of times the cause may be just but when the tool used to achieve it isn't a public consensus but rather government coercion, I see it as a great evil.
As an example, I know many people that fervently wish there was less drug abuse, but setting up a draconian mechanism that imprisons tens of thousands of people and costs many more people their jobs, homes, and most everything else isn't the way to achieve that wish. Nor is mandatory "education programs" paid for with money stolen through taxation.

As a side note, I generally try to avoid using polarizing terms like "liberal". While the term itself may be an accurate description of a particular person and/or their position, I find it is more often than not used as a pejorative, and a lazy one at that. It is intended to cause an immediate and emotional reaction in the listener, and cause the person facing the suspected "liberal" to assume their ideas fit into a neat position. More evidence of the polarizing effect government has on honest debate, but thats another story.

A "liberal" in the classic sense is not much different than the paleo version of a conservative. A simple comparison would be to say the paleoliberal wants personal freedom guaranteed by government, whereas the paleoconservative wants the same, just with much smaller government. Both of them compare favorably to the neolibs and neocons, each of which are offshoots of truly dangerous people, the Progressives. That movement arose in the very late 19th century and counts such luminaries as Teddy Roosevelt amongst their numbers. Their doctrines included eugenics and protofacism. They preached a collective welfare that was the root of today's public education, military interventionism, monetary policy, and elimination of personal freedom.
Progressivism was allowed to split into those two factions. Roosevelt's social justice was split away from his military interventionism. The social justice faction grew into the neolibs like LBJ and the Feinstein/Schumer/Reid crew, and his "big stick" wound up with William F Buckley and the military/industrial alliance. Both have come home to roost in the same henhouse today as certain pols preach security through loss of personal privacy, feel good laws that offer state favors towards protected groups, and endless war with the rest of the world.

In my experience I have seen both liberals and conservatives use government to guarantee/enforce their views on us.

NeoCons and NeoLibs annoy me to the core. Nobody listens to the other anymore. It's as if they believe they. And they only have all the answers.
 
It's a tough one, if you get rid of government corporations go wild and get rid of corporations governments go wild.

Not even close. When corporations go wild, you don't have to buy from them. When governments go wild, you have no choice. Corporations don't have the power to throw a person in jail or take their possessions, the government does. In the last few years, the government, for example, IRS and police, do not even have to go to court to take your stuff including your money. People better start waking up and stop with this kind of misguided "the government will save us" mentality, because it is so far from the truth, one would have to be near dead to believe it.
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But people will trust technology from Europe and China?
. . . . .

Of course not, but this is America and it used to be that we at least had a little trust in our government. Not any more. In that regard, we are not any different than some two-bit south american tin-horn dictatorship.
 
Not even close. When corporations go wild, you don't have to buy from them. When governments go wild, you have no choice. Corporations don't have the power to throw a person in jail or take their possessions, the government does. In the last few years, the government, for example, IRS and police, do not even have to go to court to take your stuff including your money. People better start waking up and stop with this kind of misguided "the government will save us" mentality, because it is so far from the truth, one would have to be near dead to believe it.
[doublepost=1472999975][/doublepost]

Of course not, but this is America and it used to be that we at least had a little trust in our government. Not any more. In that regard, we are not any different than some two-bit south american tin-horn dictatorship.

When governments go wild you can vote to get rid of them and it's hard to stop 'buying' from a company who creates a monopoly forcing you to only use their products and services (or make it extremely difficult to stop using their services), in the UK it has often taken government interference to stop such practices.

If not for government interference companies would do a heck of a lot more to keep their profits high with price fixing being a small example of that.

Think of the early mob day when 'protection' money was a necessary purchase or watch 'documentaries that changed the world' and see how shady Coke's got (that includes blood spill).

I am not misguided in the slightest, I just know that there will never be a perfect system and it is often up to ordinary citizens to put pressure on both companies and governments to get change, but with the 101 (IMO) pointless other things people seemed focused on, sometimes we have to rely on the corporations to fight governments and vice versa.
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And, when they are largely in cahoots....? Yes, good government regulation is necessary to keep the corporations in check, but unfortunately, we have a bloated corrupt gov't that doesn't have proper regulations in place. It's the worst of both worlds.

Am I right in saying you're referring to lobbyist?
A government that act's like a employee of corporations is beyond dangerous no disagreement from me on that and you are right it will become the worst of both worlds.

My view is there will never be a perfect system as there is always be a group that will not like what's is happening, I remember watching a Tony Blair documentary and he said something along the lines of "when I first got into politics, I tried to please everyone then I realised it could not be done...". Which is why I feel groups that shout the loudest get heard as there hear an ocean of complaints.

How I see it is, the only way to get things done is to kick up a large collective fuss and I think (correct me where I'm wrong), in the US you have privacy advocates/groups but they don't seem to have a strong enough voice to get things done?
which tells me they don't have enough support from the regular Joe which in turn I'm interpreting to mean by large they don't deem it as important or they feel it is a necessary trade for 'security', again feel free to correct me as I don't know anything about US politics, but if my assumption is correct then the vast majority have 'spoken' so to speak.
 
I find it ironic that liberals always put all their faith in the Government to solve problems
I'm not so sure that "liberals" (whatever that overused word means) put all their faith in government. I consider myself more "liberal" than "conservative" yet I have a strong distrust of both big government and big business. Each institution looks after itself first and foremost. Citizens and consumers are an afterthought until those citizens complain loudly about their perceived rights. Then the institutions take notice, but only until that immediate conflict is resolved. Then it's back to business as usual until the next crisis.

In this particular case, big business is looking after the consumer because, as others have noted, it's in their interest to do so. There's nothing altruistic about it (except perhaps on Apple's part, since Cook has been leaning the company toward altruism). If the businesses screw their customers, then they lose those customers.
 
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Of course not, but this is America and it used to be that we at least had a little trust in our government. Not any more. In that regard, we are not any different than some two-bit south american tin-horn dictatorship.
When were things better? Before, there were the Red Scares and the Cold War. And it's better now than China and the South American dictatorships, where things are blatantly censored. Europe depends.
 
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Between this case not yet ruled in Microsoft's favour and the anti-data sovereignty provisions in the TPP any government would be stupid to sign it and/or put their data on any cloud service provided by a company with an American presence.
 
I'm not so sure that "liberals" (whatever that overused word means) put all their faith in government. I consider myself more "liberal" than "conservative" yet I have a strong distrust of both big government and big business. Each institution looks after itself first and foremost.
Everyone looks after themselves first and foremost, including citizens.
 
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When were things better? Before, there were the Red Scares and the Cold War. And it's better now than China and the South American dictatorships, where things are blatantly censored. Europe depends.

Yes it used to be better, when politicians got caught abusing the law, they were impeached, or had to step down, now they just say #$%^ you and continue on.
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When governments go wild you can vote to get rid of them and it's hard to stop 'buying' from a company who creates a monopoly forcing you to only use their products and services (or make it extremely difficult to stop using their services), in the UK it has often taken government interference to stop such practices.

If not for government interference companies would do a heck of a lot more to keep their profits high with price fixing being a small example of that.

Think of the early mob day when 'protection' money was a necessary purchase or watch 'documentaries that changed the world' and see how shady Coke's got (that includes blood spill).

I am not misguided in the slightest, I just know that there will never be a perfect system and it is often up to ordinary citizens to put pressure on both companies and governments to get change, but with the 101 (IMO) pointless other things people seemed focused on, sometimes we have to rely on the corporations to fight governments and vice versa.
. . . .

There is no way to get rid of the IRS, who are you going to vote for for that? There is no way to stop civil forfeiture, who are you going to vote for to stop that. The only person forcing use to purchase something is Obama with Obamacare and even when he gets voted out, we will still be forced. I think you need to read a little history. Government abuse is capable of far worse abuses than anything a corporation can do.
 
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There is no way to get rid of the IRS, who are you going to vote for for that? There is no way to stop civil forfeiture, who are you going to vote for to stop that. The only person forcing use to purchase something is Obama with Obamacare and even when he gets voted out, we will still be forced. I think you need to read a little history. Government abuse is capable of far worse abuses than anything a corporation can do.

I think you to need to read a little history of corporate abuse.

We do not know how far corporations would go without government interference but we do know how far corporations have gone without government interference and it does not paint a favourable picture.

Neither side is perfect especially if left completely to its own devices, I don't place 100% faith in either I just know that no matter what, there will always be a group(s) calling foul and said groups voice will be ignored unless the public get behind it.
 
But people will trust technology from Europe and China?
...
Companies tend to hire the same people over and over unless there's a huge shakeup like what happened at Apple in the late 90s. It's 2016, and I'm still appalled by the engineering, UX... and really all the decisions that go into MSFT products. Not only are they bad, but they're the same kind of bad as before.

- From Europe? Yes. From China? No. China is too closed and protective of their own interests above that of their customers. Apple will fight the FBI unlocking a terrorist's phone in order to protect their other customers. I don't believe a Chinese company would have the desire or legal power to mount a similar challenge. It's obviously an exceptional, possibly unprecedented situation, but I believe European companies would also have the desire and legal standing to challenge their governments on behalf of their customers, as Apple did. We don't know that until it happens, though.

- Microsoft has undergone a massive transformation, at least on par with Apple in the 90s. Not just Bill Gates leaving, but Steve Ballmer too. Their CEO is relatively young, and he basically flipped Microsoft on its head. Instead of being all-about Windows, Microsoft is now all about multi-platform services (and the interest in the cloud comes from that). They are no longer the world's dominant computing platform, or the dominant web-viewing platform, so they now have vested interests in interoperability. They have been far less conservative with Windows - and fair enough, it's been met with mixed reactions, but it's great to see they have the balls to experiment with their core product now. You win some, you lose some, and the only thing you can guarantee is that if you never try, you never win.
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There is no way to get rid of the IRS, who are you going to vote for for that? There is no way to stop civil forfeiture, who are you going to vote for to stop that. The only person forcing use to purchase something is Obama with Obamacare and even when he gets voted out, we will still be forced. I think you need to read a little history. Government abuse is capable of far worse abuses than anything a corporation can do.

Lol what? The IRS? Why would you want to get rid of them? They're a non-political organisation similar to the police or army, who perform an unsexy but necessary job. Even if you're an anarchist and want to abolish the state overnight, surely you don't also support disbanding the military? Somebody is going to need to collect the tax revenue to buy their equipment and pay their salaries, and you'd end up with something which is basically exactly the same as the IRS.

Also, Obama isn't getting "voted out". He can't run for a third term; it's the 22nd amendment: "No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice". Also, every other developed nation also "forces" its citizens to pay for health insurance - sometimes through general taxation (single-payer), other times on the private market. It's hardly abusive - that guaranteed customer base is what we give the insurance companies in exchange for regulation (e.g. inability to refuse customers with pre-existing conditions), which in turn allows us deliver excellent and expensive healthcare at affordable rates.

If you think the IRS and affordable healthcare is what abusive government looks like, you need to travel more.
 
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You would likely find my opinions quite liberal. And I am telling you, I believe there needs to be a balance. Financial corporations with insufficient government oversight gave us a banking crisis last decade that nearly ruined the nation (and, funny, for some reason there aren't a thousand finance company executives in jail over that - there absolutely should be).

If I drank coffee, I would have just spit it all over my monitor while reading this. You are grossly misinformed if you think the cause of the crisis was not enough regulation. The forcing of banks to extend mortgages to people who should not have had them and then a change in banking regulations on how you evaluate the risk of loans (which required banks to hold more cash on hand and dried up the money supply) are just two of the main causes of the financial collapse that were the direct result of the government's regulations.

Sure there were unscrupulous people in the banking industry, but the reason they are not in jail, is because if they were prosecuted, the truth would come out that what they did, they did because the government's policies made it necessary.
 
- . . . .They're a non-political organisation similar to the police or army, who perform an unsexy but necessary job. . . . . .

I wish I could live in your fairy land. There are no organizations in the US government that are non-political. The worst offenders the world over are governments, not corporations. Keep drinking that cool-aid, some day, hopefully, you'll wise up and grow up.
 
It really indicates a lot about modern times, when the government is trampling on the rights of the people, and the companies are the ones standing up for the rights of the people.
 
Here's a good example of private companies caring more about citizen's rights then the Government. I find it ironic that liberals always put all their faith in the Government to solve problems and discount private companies as being the problem. In many cases those companies are actually the ones looking out for the citizens.

Conservatives as well as Liberals are guilty of same thing.

Remember that it was under G. Bush the Homeland Security act was nearly unanimously supported by Republicans (in Senate it was unanimous), and then there is the warrentless surveillance program, also created under Bush (but as a smaller program continued under Obama).

Both Democrats and Republicans must be scrutinized carefully.
 
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I wish I could live in your fairy land. There are no organizations in the US government that are non-political. The worst offenders the world over are governments, not corporations. Keep drinking that cool-aid, some day, hopefully, you'll wise up and grow up.

No, actually I think it's you who are living in fairy-land. You're looking at organisations as people with political opinions. The IRS just enforces the law; they don't write it. They don't decide how much you pay in taxes or where that money goes; only Congress has the authority to do that (16th amendment).

Seriously - anybody can apply for a job with the IRS (and if you're qualified, you should - they're understaffed as it is). You don't need to go to 3am ritual sacrifices and earn an invitation or anything. It's not a conspiracy.
 
No, actually I think it's you who are living in fairy-land. You're looking at organisations as people with political opinions. The IRS just enforces the law; they don't write it. They don't decide how much you pay in taxes or where that money goes; only Congress has the authority to do that (16th amendment).

Regardless of the laws, every federal department is staffed by unelected people who simply receive a mandate from the government, and then write their own regulations to enforce that mandate. EPA and Agriculture are among the worst offenders.
Every single federal department can and has been used politically. I've previously mentioned how the FCC was used to threaten tv and radio stations and prevent them from broadcasting information that went against state doctrine. The IRS was used by Obama in his first term to exact vengeance against certain political groups, with nary a peep about it in the mainstream media.

Seriously - anybody can apply for a job with the IRS (and if you're qualified, you should - they're understaffed as it is).

I would think most people here value their souls far too much to do that. At least as members of productive society they can actually contribute to it, instead of taking from it.
 
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Regardless of the laws, every federal department is staffed by unelected people who simply receive a mandate from the government, and then write their own regulations to enforce that mandate. EPA and Agriculture are among the worst offenders.
Every single federal department can and has been used politically. I've previously mentioned how the FCC was used to threaten tv and radio stations and prevent them from broadcasting information that went against state doctrine. The IRS was used by Obama in his first term to exact vengeance against certain political groups, with nary a peep about it in the mainstream media.

I don't know about any FCC thing, but targeting by the IRS was proved to be untrue. If there are any problems with agencies not doing their jobs, the courts are there to correct things. If you don't trust the courts either, you might as well leave the planet because that's how all developed nations solve their problems.

You're not going to be able to elect every single tax advisor at the IRS; IRS just not feasible. But you don't have to - they don't write the law, only enforce it, and if their enforcement is incorrect the courts will not uphold any allegations of unpaid taxes they make.

Also: if your job is to enforce the law, you're not an "offender". If you have a mandate to write regulations to ensure compliance, you are the very opposite of an offender.

I would think most people here value their souls far too much to do that. At least as members of productive society they can actually contribute to it, instead of taking from it.

It's hard to find anybody that contributes more to society than the IRS. As I mentioned, if they failed to collect any tax revenue, the military, police, schools, and infrastructure will all go unfunded. They won't be able to buy essentials like food and fuel, or to pay the soldiers/police officers/teachers who work for them. In fact, the IRS was founded to raise the funds to fight the civil war.
 
I don't know about any FCC thing, but targeting by the IRS was proved to be untrue.

Thats amazing. I personally know people who were ruined by the IRS following donations to the causes in question. I'm sure they'd be comforted by the "fact" that it was proved untrue. Just wait till I tell them...

If there are any problems with agencies not doing their jobs, the courts are there to correct things. If you don't trust the courts either, you might as well leave the planet because that's how all developed nations solve their problems.

The courts are there primarily to preserve order, not to administer correction to agencies. Trying to move a court to correct agency behavior is a laughable endeavor. Again, I have personally witnessed judges trying to correct government employees and being told in open court "we're not going to do that". IRS lawyers are famous for saying to judges who've ordered them to stop harassing people "so noted, but we're going to continue".

On a local scale, I have witnessed a judge order a trio of meter maids to set aside a ticketing vendetta against a local business owner, and they told him they were going to continue harassing the person and her entire staff. The judge's response? "Well obviously you're going to have to work this out for yourselves", and then he dismissed the meter maids' cases without any kind of sanction for their courtroom behavior.

You're not going to be able to elect every single tax advisor at the IRS; IRS just not feasible. But you don't have to - they don't write the law, only enforce it, and if their enforcement is incorrect the courts will not uphold any allegations of unpaid taxes they make.

There are no "tax advisors" at IRS. The duties there are clerical, investigative, and enforcement. They don't give advice other than "comply".

Also: if your job is to enforce the law, you're not an "offender". If you have a mandate to write regulations to ensure compliance, you are the very opposite of an offender.

When the regulations fill shelves and are incomprehensible, and those regulations generally preserve the options for cronies while walling out entrepreneurs and applying political will against dissent, yes, those are offenders.

It's hard to find anybody that contributes more to society than the IRS.

That is disturbingly inaccurate. I would place them at the bottom of the heap, with perhaps the TSA offering some insulation between them and the ground below.

As I mentioned, if they failed to collect any tax revenue, the military, police, schools, and infrastructure will all go unfunded. They won't be able to buy essentials like food and fuel, or to pay the soldiers/police officers/teachers who work for them. In fact, the IRS was founded to raise the funds to fight the civil war.

The IRS pays police? That would be news to the many counties and cities that pay their own cops. The IRS pays schools? Again, thats news to all the school admins I have dealt with. The only thing that is almost true in your statement concerns the military, but since all that money for food and fuel has been used in decades of military adventurism - about $2trillion just in the past 15 years, along with tens of thousands wounded and killed and traumatized - I wouldn't have a problem with cutting them off too. Bring them home, and when they defend our own shores, we can talk about funding them.

The IRS was not founded to help fight the civil war. They were the result of the Public Salary Tax Act of 1933. The IRS has exactly zero relation to the Bureau of Internal Revenue or whatever it was called then.
 
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Where did you get the notion that liberals "put all their faith in the Government..." ????

They probably meant, in general. I suppose there will always be exceptions. Liberals (as in US Democrats) usually want regulation vs 'free market' and gov't run social programs vs private charities and religious organizations.

Am I right in saying you're referring to lobbyist?
A government that act's like a employee of corporations is beyond dangerous no disagreement from me on that and you are right it will become the worst of both worlds.

My view is there will never be a perfect system ...
...
How I see it is, the only way to get things done is to kick up a large collective fuss and I think (correct me where I'm wrong), in the US you have privacy advocates/groups but they don't seem to have a strong enough voice to get things done?

Yes, lobbying and owing favors to corporations, and passing laws that favor corporations, or letting the get away with about anything, etc. The Republicans often talk about 'free market', but due to human nature, there need to be proper regulation in place to keep the markets free. Much of what's called 'free market' isn't even close to what would be deemed free market in economics.

True, there never will be a perfect system, but I think the USA has the right mechanisms in place to be as good as anything yet seen. The problem is that it's a system where the people have to have a certain amount of virtue and involvement. It's quickly being broken, and pretty soon, it won't matter about the structure or Constitution, as they are being legislated around (and the people, for the most part, aren't paying attention).

Private advocate groups can certainly get action, if they can get well enough funded or backed. But, when it's a normal grass-roots kind of concern, up against big corporations, that often doesn't happen. It could, if enough people really got involved.
 
Gotta love the fact that our government is so terrible that bitter corporate enemies are putting aside their differences to help each other out. And I'm not even talking about Apple/Microsoft or Apple/Google. You've got freaking Fox News and Apple fighting for the same cause.

Fox News? Are you talking about the same Fox News anchors like Bill O'Reilly who said Tim Cook should be in contempt of court and jailed because Apple did not want to assist FBI in accessing the terrorist's iPhone?

The same Fox News that had video snippets of then-primary-candidate Trump who demanded that Apple should assist FBI or else they would look like terror accomplices? Then Trump calls on a boycott of Apple products?

Trump calls for Apple boycott amid FBI feud – then sends tweets from iPhone
 
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