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This announcement is meant to counteract whatever Apple is about to announce financially on Wednesday after the bell. Increased buybacks, dividends, etc with large profit during difficult times for many others. PR want to get out front like they have historically with the repatriation of foreign cash announcement 3 years. Smart move, like always, Tim Cook.
 
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I could think of a lot better ways of spending $430 billion. They could invest in poor countries and use this money to eradicate poverty and raise living standards.
 
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Regardless, suppression of third-party (app) innovation for AAPL's own benefit, will be seen as their (i.e., Cook's & Schiller's) Downfall !
 
$21,500,000 per job?
Indeed. This is far more than the cost of temporary jobs created by politicians. These are designed to be sustainable jobs -- not one-shot funding for a "job" lasting a year or two. This is a true American Jobs Plan.
 
There should be a campaign “Back To America”. Not bringing dirty manufacturing jobs to America but bring clean and modern manufacturing in area that’s possible.

How much extra are you willing to pay for the items produced in those manufacturing plants, everything else (performance, reliability, design, etc) being equal? Many 3rd world overseas countries don’t have or don’t enforce health, safety and income rules for either the people working there or the environmental or safety of the buildings, machines or pollution aspects associated with whatever is being manufactured there. And here’s the good part: they really do pass some of the savings from endangering people and not paying them well on to you!
 
20,000 jobs for the entire US? There’s probably about that many in a 10 black radius in NYC. Not exactly a number to gloat about.
 
$21,500,000 per job?
That calculation does not make any sense. They are not investing to create jobs. They are investing to create trillions of dollars in revenue. The jobs are needed to create that revenue. If you want to do a calculation, calculate how many times the revenue is going to be for the $430B investment. Assuming any such guidance from Apple exists.
 
Wow...430b....looks like Apple Car is on its way
I agree the gap between the total number and the obvious expenses (and the small fry they listed) is quite something...

The other obvious alternative is some sort of sharing agreement with TSMC -- some deal where Apple is paying for new TSMC fabs and in return gets first use of them for the next N years? Or something similar for other novel semi technology that everyone else is scared to fund -- pay Micron for a different type of DRAM? pay someone to fund fabrication of Nantero carbon nanotube RAM? pay GloFo for a better substrate for the upcoming 5G modem?
 
I'd like to see Apple do an experiment here:
  • $430 billion, invested over 5 years as they are saying, and hoping the investment 'trickles down' to people beyond the 20,000 jobs they directly create.
  • $430 billion, invested over 10 years by giving 1,000,000 people $43,000/year for 10 years.
Then they can compare the good to society that comes from each investment.
 
I'd like to see Apple do an experiment here:
  • $430 billion, invested over 5 years as they are saying, and hoping the investment 'trickles down' to people beyond the 20,000 jobs they directly create.
  • $430 billion, invested over 10 years by giving 1,000,000 people $43,000/year for 10 years.
Then they can compare the good to society that comes from each investment.
Sounds like the difference between:
- teach a man to fish and he'll have it for lifetime. give a man a fish and he'll have it for a day.

In one case one is giving away money and the other building something solid for the US that's a foundation for reversal of moving everything and anything offshore.
 
I'd like to see Apple do an experiment here:
  • $430 billion, invested over 5 years as they are saying, and hoping the investment 'trickles down' to people beyond the 20,000 jobs they directly create.
  • $430 billion, invested over 10 years by giving 1,000,000 people $43,000/year for 10 years.
Then they can compare the good to society that comes from each investment.
You're proposing the latter as a thought experiment -- Apple would never do that. Fortunately, forms of it have been happening for many years. Look here for some data.
 
In one case one is giving away money and the other building something solid for the US that's a foundation for reversal of moving everything and anything offshore.

Giving away money is one of the most reliable ways to improve quality of life. In basic income experiments, people tend to use the money toward addressing their needs, paying off debt, investing in their future. Not to mention the freedom it gives people to make better long-term decisions, escape abusive households, and so on.

As for increasing domestic manufacturing, I think that's a worthwhile goal to discuss and pursue. However, it's unclear how much of Apple's money is going towards that goal — a lot of the direct jobs Apple are touting are engineering positions that have historically been located within the US.

Additionally, we don't have any insight into how accessible the benefits of any manufacturing investment by Apple will be. Will Apple be the only beneficiary of new manufacturing capacity? I would rather tax a small portion of tech companies' wealth and invest it in manufacturing capacity that is accessible to the public and companies in general, not just Apple. At least through public budgeting we would know where the money is going and who will benefit.

You're proposing the latter as a thought experiment -- Apple would never do that. Fortunately, forms of it have been happening for many years. Look here for some data.
Yes, I'm aware Apple would never do what I am proposing. The purpose of me proposing it is to think about how that money — which Apple are otherwise sitting on or spending on stock buybacks — could be utilized in better ways.
 
Sounds like the difference between:
- teach a man to fish and he'll have it for lifetime. give a man a fish and he'll have it for a day.
- give a man a fire and he is warm for a day. set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life!
 
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Giving away money is one of the most reliable ways to improve quality of life. In basic income experiments, people tend to use the money toward addressing their needs, paying off debt, investing in their future. Not to mention the freedom it gives people to make better long-term decisions, escape abusive households, and so on.
This is not nearly as cut-and-dried as you assume. In particular it assumes that "quality of life" is synonymous with what can be measured in economic terms.

The opposing viewpoint is that people derive *meaning* for their lives from responsibility and a job, and when those are taken away, quality of life plunges to zero. Examples for this are not hard to find. We start with various indigenous populations (eg Australia or North America) with constant on-going problems resulting from some level of guaranteed government income but none of the source of meaning that I described. Later this moves on to much of the US black population, and is now starting to become an important source of anomie in the US poor white population.
It would be foolish, IMHO, to ignore these precedents, especially when those who insist that they are irrelevant are precisely the college-educated population who will always have available sources of meaning in their lives, and who have zero experience with those who in the past have derived such meaning from very different sources from what matters to the college-educated.
 
Giving away money is one of the most reliable ways to improve quality of life. In basic income experiments, people tend to use the money toward addressing their needs, paying off debt, investing in their future. Not to mention the freedom it gives people to make better long-term decisions, escape abusive households, and so on.

As for increasing domestic manufacturing, I think that's a worthwhile goal to discuss and pursue. However, it's unclear how much of Apple's money is going towards that goal — a lot of the direct jobs Apple are touting are engineering positions that have historically been located within the US.

Additionally, we don't have any insight into how accessible the benefits of any manufacturing investment by Apple will be. Will Apple be the only beneficiary of new manufacturing capacity? I would rather tax a small portion of tech companies' wealth and invest it in manufacturing capacity that is accessible to the public and companies in general, not just Apple. At least through public budgeting we would know where the money is going and who will benefit.


Yes, I'm aware Apple would never do what I am proposing. The purpose of me proposing it is to think about how that money — which Apple are otherwise sitting on or spending on stock buybacks — could be utilized in better ways.
Well if giving away money is a reliable way to improve life, maybe instead of spending $2T on infrastructure, the people of the US would be better served by having the government give the money to them. After all, Apple as a private company is not obligated to develop social programs and such, which should be the purview of the government.

By the same token, Apples' $530 billion dollar and the government infrastructure will accomplish the same basic ends. Provide jobs through construction while increasing the quality of the infrastructure in the US.
 
Good on Apple. We need more solid companies willing to hire more people. The problem is a lot of today's young people are very lazy and appear to lack personal initiative and motivation, outside of playing on their iPhones.
 
This is not nearly as cut-and-dried as you assume. In particular it assumes that "quality of life" is synonymous with what can be measured in economic terms.
Looking at the basic income studies to date, a lot of the quality of life benefits are in areas such as mental health, which usually isn't included in GDP or in economic terms.

The opposing viewpoint is that people derive *meaning* for their lives from responsibility and a job, and when those are taken away, quality of life plunges to zero.
I certainly agree that people can derive meaning from responsibilities and a job. I would argue that basic income makes it more likely that people will derive meaning from their work. If someone's no longer forced to take a low-paying and/or dangerous job just to survive, it's more likely they will find work that's meaningful to them.

Examples for this are not hard to find. We start with various indigenous populations (eg Australia or North America) with constant on-going problems resulting from some level of guaranteed government income but none of the source of meaning that I described. Later this moves on to much of the US black population, and is now starting to become an important source of anomie in the US poor white population.
The challenges that indigenous populations and minorities face are not from occasionally being given small sums of money, but from poverty, often enforced through generations of oppression, marginalization, and exclusion from economic opportunities (the Wikipedia page on Redlining provides some context for just one of the methods used). The article I linked above cites an example where Native Americans in North Carolina distributed a universal benefit, and there was correlation with "improved education and mental health, and decreased addiction and crime".

Another piece of context is that welfare in the US is means-tested, which can often lead to a poverty trap where getting a low-paying job leads to the same or less net income. The evidence-based approach is to remove the means-testing, so we get the poverty-lessening effect of welfare, but people also get the benefit of additional income from work. I know there is a lot of hand-wringing about whether basic income will keep people from working, but again, all the evidence we've seen so far from experiments is that this just doesn't happen; by not worrying as much about survival, people are able to focus on finding the work that's meaningful to them.

Well if giving away money is a reliable way to improve life, maybe instead of spending $2T on infrastructure, the people of the US would be better served by having the government give the money to them.
One shouldn't have to choose between the two. We need infrastructure and, imho, we need to decouple survival from work because we live in a world of increasing automation.

After all, Apple as a private company is not obligated to develop social programs and such, which should be the purview of the government.
Agreed. Again, I am proposing this thought experiment because there is a contrast between the vast, vast sums of money Apple have collected, and the poverty we see in the US. To me, it's not right that Apple — or any corporation — can have so much while so many go without.

By the same token, Apples' $530 billion dollar and the government infrastructure will accomplish the same basic ends. Provide jobs through construction while increasing the quality of the infrastructure in the US.
Unless there is an investigation into the efficacy of Apple's investment, we don't know if private investment will achieve the same ends as public investment. Are the terms of Apple's manufacturing deals public? Will other companies be able to make use of the infrastructure Apple are investing in, or is it primarily for Apple's use? Without proper auditing, all we have to go on are statements from Apple.

Good on Apple. We need more solid companies willing to hire more people. The problem is a lot of today's young people are very lazy and appear to lack personal initiative and motivation, outside of playing on their iPhones.
There are many people in every generation, and we can point to any specific individual to confirm the bias we have about any given generation. Here's an example that shows my bias: Over the course of a week in January 2017, a bunch of primarily-young people raised over $2 million to cure cancer, the same week that a bunch of primarily-old people were trying to eliminate health coverage — including cancer treatments — for millions of people. That contrast has stuck with me over the years, and made it harder for me to remember that there are plenty of people older than me who are also working to make things better.
 
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[…]One shouldn't have to choose between the two. We need infrastructure and, imho, we need to decouple survival from work because we live in a world of increasing automation.
That we as a society are not endless money pits that in reality is what happens.
Agreed. Again, I am proposing this thought experiment because there is a contrast between the vast, vast sums of money Apple have collected, and the poverty we see in the US. To me, it's not right that Apple — or any corporation — can have so much while so many go without.
It sounds like a slippery slope toward socialism. What makes Jeff bezos entitled to his money any more than apple?
Unless there is an investigation into the efficacy of Apple's investment, we don't know if private investment will achieve the same ends as public investment. Are the terms of Apple's manufacturing deals public? Will other companies be able to make use of the infrastructure Apple are investing in, or is it primarily for Apple's use? Without proper auditing, all we have to go on are statements from Apple.[…]
Seems like we don’t know if the governments efficacy will be up to apples. The government never wasted any taxpayer money?
 
That we as a society are not endless money pits that in reality is what happens.
I am not suggesting that the money supply is endless. At the same time, I wouldn't characterize infrastructure and welfare spending as money pits, because the return on these particular investments is significant, well-documented, and at least in my view, worthwhile.

What makes Jeff bezos entitled to his money any more than apple?
I think that's an important question to ask. We have lots of stories and history lessons about the immorality of excess wealth and hoarding money. At what point does a person's or corporation's savings become hoarding? Ultimately we have to answer that question in hard numbers through our tax code, so it's a worthwhile discussion to have.

Seems like we don’t know if the governments efficacy will be up to apples. The government never wasted any taxpayer money?
Certainly the government has wasted money. The difference is that through budgeting, inspectors general, and elections, we have a degree of transparency and accountability that we don't get with private investment.
 
I am not suggesting that the money supply is endless. At the same time, I wouldn't characterize infrastructure and welfare spending as money pits, because the return on these particular investments is significant, well-documented, and at least in my view, worthwhile.
But private companies are not on the hook for social programs. That is the purview of the government and that is where it should remain.
I think that's an important question to ask. We have lots of stories and history lessons about the immorality of excess wealth and hoarding money. At what point does a person's or corporation's savings become hoarding? Ultimately we have to answer that question in hard numbers through our tax code, so it's a worthwhile discussion to have.


Certainly the government has wasted money. The difference is that through budgeting, inspectors general, and elections, we have a degree of transparency and accountability that we don't get with private investment.
My only comment is the private money is not up for scrutiny. In the case of a publicly held corporation the board and stockholders are the ones that make the determination, about wastefulness (differentiated from breaking the law).
 
Where would they get $430 Billion dollars, they will have to sell 25% of the company to make that money. Plus, any one else is scared that $430 Billion can make only 20K jobs. I mean, how much money we need to employee 1 million people? and there are 300 Million people in USA.
 
Building spaceships & computer systems sounds great until you realize you’d be stuck living in some medieval backwater where these companies could score some cheap space without paying taxes. Get out of work creating rockets and futuristic tech, and step foot into a culture obsessed with starting a new civil war to purge anyone representing culture newer than the 1860s. Wow, where do I sign up...
If that is a knock against NC, it highly suggests you haven’t been there. Perhaps broadening your horizons would be refreshing for you.
 
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