They did that with the Mini iPod, right about the time the Shuffle came out (I think).thejadedmonkey said:
You are probably right - but it would be so cool!thejadedmonkey said:
What's the point?thejadedmonkey said:
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Apple Announces Long-Term Flash Memory Agreements
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TheJadedMonkey said:
Apologies, I was thinking in a windows world where you have to reboot every day or two.
thejadedmonkey said:
iPhone, iPhone... keep dreaming people 'cause that's all iPhone will ever be... a dream, and a misguided, disaster, more like a nightmare if Apple tried to enter that market.
What do you people expect, Apple to start from scratch as a national carrier, the current market is both saturated and imploding with mergers, big ulgy ones. Therefore they'd need to sell their phone to carriers, which that too is a tight, tight market between Samsung, Moto, and Qualcomm (don't mention others, they're mostly actuallly made by those big three). Apple hasn't any leverage in the matter, additionally their Moto iTunes phone didn't exactly take the world by storm. People have said/done again and again that, basically, they want their portable phone to be just that... a phone at best, or a messaging device. Sure there is a demographic that loves the gadget, but it's small, it's not high in profit nor profile. The R&D for phones is staggering. It's just not a smart market to enter into... unless one enjoys failure.
thejadedmonkey said:
Or in the cases of the computer lab at our campus it's sometimes hourly, if the system boots up at all, if it's not crippled by spyware despite the incompetent IT department's firewalls (who gets a kickback for every Dull they sell, hence, the amount of Dulls, not to mention if the campus went all Mac the IT department would have to lay off 65% of it's staff as not needed). Though to Windoze credit, we have been running Uptime Clock and an assistant noted on XPee machine made it four days without incident. Meanwhile I can point to some eMacs that haven't been off since the last power failure a month ago.
The instant excitement of having an Apple branded:
1. iPhone
2. iPDA (Newton 2)
3. Some other fangled thing...
is great and all for a few months if not years. After that that excitement wears off and the market for the above listed products trickles down.
Seems the only reason Apple would even secure so much flash in such a short time is for the iPod line (iPod original is going flash soon), some even thinner notebooks with security on flash built-in for the OS, etc...
Do I believe that this flash memory will replace HD's not as of yet, we have been too accustom to a certain level of performance and speed in access time for files that if we are hit with a slowdown in performance we cannot handle it for long. Eventually yes, not yet though. Would be nice though.
iPod line revise and some new product is the only thing that comes to mind.
1. iPhone
2. iPDA (Newton 2)
3. Some other fangled thing...
is great and all for a few months if not years. After that that excitement wears off and the market for the above listed products trickles down.
Seems the only reason Apple would even secure so much flash in such a short time is for the iPod line (iPod original is going flash soon), some even thinner notebooks with security on flash built-in for the OS, etc...
Do I believe that this flash memory will replace HD's not as of yet, we have been too accustom to a certain level of performance and speed in access time for files that if we are hit with a slowdown in performance we cannot handle it for long. Eventually yes, not yet though. Would be nice though.
iPod line revise and some new product is the only thing that comes to mind.
i just can't wait for a flash-based video ipod or something in that vicinity. That would be awesome.
And its great that samsung is back in partnership with apple
And its great that samsung is back in partnership with apple
They seem to be pretty clever at Apple and seem to learn from their mistakes quite quickly, ie they gambled on IBM and became the poor relation far down IBM's pecking order of priorities and had no weight really to get things moving. This time Apple just invested in a few companies and as well as securing lots of product to meet current demand, they have teams of people competing hard in state of the art research and development into flash drives - technology that Apple design people can put in "orders" for to slot into different innovative product ideas that they have been, or will be dreaming up over the next few years.
Photorun said:
I don't think anyone was implying that Apple would become a carrier, more like Apple would sell their "iPhones" to carriers (ie: Verizon, Cingular, etc.)
Why is it so hard to believe that they might make a Cell Phone? Everyone knows the iPods to be "the best" mp3 player on the market, why wouldn't someone buy a phone made by the same great company?
On a side note, Apple mentioned in the press release that over 30 million iPods had been sold since 2001. What was the total as of the last quarter?
David
David
Maybe because they'd assume that the phone would have the same tie-ins to the proprietary media outlet as the "mp3" players?EricNau said:
Or maybe because they'd assume that the phone would be horribly scratched within days of being purchased?
Or maybe because they're absolutely sick of tacky white plastic devices?
Or maybe on the "style vs. substance" debate they'd prefer substance?
Not all the world thinks like the fanbois....
How can so many think this means we'll see hard drives replaced by flash memory? Solid state memory is still too expensive. There are tons of articles you can find about new technologies and how cheap and small everything is going to be, but the reality is that it's not cheap enough yet and won't be for a while. I bet many prefer a 60GB iPod instead of an 8GB or iPod half the size at the same price.
Apple could of course use all this along with hard drives but not as a replacement. We have to see a flash based iPod, before we see any laptop hard drives replaced by flash drives.
Or how about my Apple PDA?
Apple could of course use all this along with hard drives but not as a replacement. We have to see a flash based iPod, before we see any laptop hard drives replaced by flash drives.
Or how about my Apple PDA?
If your opinion is "true" then I guess 85% of the world;AidenShaw said:
- Doesn't care about scratches
- love the "tacky white plastic devices"
- would choose style over substance
Let the market share speak for itself
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4445060.stm
Would you like to revise your statement?BBC re:$100 Laptop said:
Knowing Steves legendary ability to negotiate a VERY good deal with component suppliers I would imagine that Apple got very good(read 'unbeatable by its competitors') volume discounts.Lacero said:Hopefully not all of it at current market rates.
Is it possible that Apple doesn't really care so much about the flash memory and is really investing the money amongst the various companies in order to maybe get a deal with them regarding the first availability of some new technology like holographic mass storage? We know it's out there, and we know it's only a matter of time before it becomes available. Maybe it's coming sooner than we think and Apple wants it first, as in, waaaaaay before any of the competition.
I don't know enough about details of flash memory, in terms of price, capacity, where it is going/can go, and whether it is a given that apple will be able to use up all of this memory, but, i have one major impression from all this.
Flash memory, from what I can tell, is a very fluctuating and dynamic market and technology. Some things, say, cloth, for instance, you know what the market is. It has X uses, for Y people, giving it a growth rate of Z, the supply is growing like A, so, basically, we know exactly what a good deal is going to be in 2010. There will be no revolutions in manufacturing, no revolutions in raw material supply, and no revolutions in uses and demand.
But my oh my, this is not true of flash! there is so much it could be put to use for, and so much it could not end up in that people think it might. There is so much of the world market left to buy or not buy existing flash products. It's manufacture is certainly not without it's variables.
Which is to say, it's a risky buisness sign deals for flash for 5 years down the road. Would you be willing to bet on the price of a barrel of oil in 5 years, with, say, a 5% margin for error? I sure wouldn't. Isn't that what enron tried to do, along with all the book cooking?
So this LARGE portion of apple's assets spent all in one place, on something with a lot of uncertainty, is a BIG DEAL. From it, one or more of three things must be true:
A) Apple is securing the supply to the minimum they might need, but nowhere near what they intend to use in flash memory, so if they overpay it won't be nearly so damaging.
B) Apple has a KILLER deal. And I mean KILLER, because if they're doing this, they're already assuming they'll buy a hell of a lot of flash, and as evidenced by the samsung deal, bulk buying means power and cheap prices. So this would have to be KILLER.
C). Apple is being stupid.
I hope it is option B, or B and A.
Flash memory, from what I can tell, is a very fluctuating and dynamic market and technology. Some things, say, cloth, for instance, you know what the market is. It has X uses, for Y people, giving it a growth rate of Z, the supply is growing like A, so, basically, we know exactly what a good deal is going to be in 2010. There will be no revolutions in manufacturing, no revolutions in raw material supply, and no revolutions in uses and demand.
But my oh my, this is not true of flash! there is so much it could be put to use for, and so much it could not end up in that people think it might. There is so much of the world market left to buy or not buy existing flash products. It's manufacture is certainly not without it's variables.
Which is to say, it's a risky buisness sign deals for flash for 5 years down the road. Would you be willing to bet on the price of a barrel of oil in 5 years, with, say, a 5% margin for error? I sure wouldn't. Isn't that what enron tried to do, along with all the book cooking?
So this LARGE portion of apple's assets spent all in one place, on something with a lot of uncertainty, is a BIG DEAL. From it, one or more of three things must be true:
A) Apple is securing the supply to the minimum they might need, but nowhere near what they intend to use in flash memory, so if they overpay it won't be nearly so damaging.
B) Apple has a KILLER deal. And I mean KILLER, because if they're doing this, they're already assuming they'll buy a hell of a lot of flash, and as evidenced by the samsung deal, bulk buying means power and cheap prices. So this would have to be KILLER.
C). Apple is being stupid.
I hope it is option B, or B and A.
It's interesting to note that Intel and Micron announced an agreement to create a new Flash Memory (NAND) joint venture that will supply Apple. Intel and Micron are investing $1.2 Billion each. The new company will be called IM Flash Technologies, with Micron being the majority owner (51%). Intel and Micron may invest another $1.4 Billion each over the next 3 years.
Apple has prepaid $250 Million to Intel and another $250 Million to Micron.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,123648,00.asp
Apple has prepaid $250 Million to Intel and another $250 Million to Micron.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,123648,00.asp
EricNau said:Then why would it waste all of its money on Flash?
Mainly because it is going to need the flash. Buying in bulk in advance might allow some of the involved companies to accelerate their R&D in other mass storage areas. Not that Intel is short on money, but it could be that a large infusion of cash could motivate them to ramp up their efforts. Obviously, this could lead to Apple getting a competitive edge when they come up with a usable product.
The point is not what Apple is buying, per se. The point is what the companies are doing with the revenue from the sale. This is the only reason I can think of for an advance purchase. Companies can negotiate supply deals without payment up front.
EricNau said:I see
I doubt it; but I guess anything is possible in the world of Appe
I kind of doubt it as well. I'm not really given to wild-eyed speculation, but it strikes me that something must be up for Apple to spend a significant percentage of its cash in such a short time period.
I don't buy the iPhone idea and I don't really buy the iTablet idea either. Neither one of those products has the ambiance of a real Apple innovation. The phone market is something that others can do as well or better than Apple and licensing requires almost no investment from Apple. They are better off profiting from other's R&D. The tablet pc market is even more niche than what Apple already is, so I don't see them going there.
If Apple can make an investment that would guarantee first dibs on an emerging technology...well that has the ring of innovation that we have come to expect.
All that said, this is nothing more than wild-eyed speculation. Initially, I was just asking a question, and I still am basically doing just that.
The probable answer is a resounding "no." Then again, the probable response to most of what has been suggested on this thread is the same. But hey, it would be cool.
MacViolinist said:
I agree that Apple probably has something up their sleeve, I just have no idea what it could be. iPhones are unlikely because it would be hard to jump into a market such as that (like you said). I'm just thinking it has to be something along the lines of a PDA, because that would need a lot of Flash memory. (that's the only thing I can think of that would use that much).
Or maybe the 6th generation iPods will have 30 GB Flash (very doubtful)
OR MAYBE...JUST MAYBE... apple just wanted to secure enough for their Shuffles and Nanos for years to come. Who Knows!
iWish!
All this talk of new products and flash-based laptops is leaving me dizzy!
I'd be first in line for an Apple phone if it was done with the usual attention to detail and usability we have come to expect from Apple. I'm tired of mobile phones trying to do too much and ending up with nasty UIs. A nice, sleek Apple phone would suit me just fine. If it happened to come stuffed to the brim with flash memory and with an iPod-esque interface for placing my music, that wouldn't be so bad either.
Imagine how smoothly it could intgrate with your mac. iTunes, Address book, Calendar, iPhoto and Mail syncing? Yes please!
I'm not going to hold my breath though.
All this talk of new products and flash-based laptops is leaving me dizzy!
I'd be first in line for an Apple phone if it was done with the usual attention to detail and usability we have come to expect from Apple. I'm tired of mobile phones trying to do too much and ending up with nasty UIs. A nice, sleek Apple phone would suit me just fine. If it happened to come stuffed to the brim with flash memory and with an iPod-esque interface for placing my music, that wouldn't be so bad either.
Imagine how smoothly it could intgrate with your mac. iTunes, Address book, Calendar, iPhoto and Mail syncing? Yes please!
I'm not going to hold my breath though.