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Apple Announces M4 Max Chip: Up to 16-Core CPU, Up to 40-Core GPU, Up to 128GB of RAM, and More

triumph71 said:
I'm not sure why you would 'defend' this descision.

It's all about your technical needs. If you are OK with WIFI 5 good on you... There are plenty of us who need to transfer and process large files, where WIFI 6 and even WIFI6e is a limitation that requires utilizing USB-C ethernet dongles to achieve the speeds we need. Being able to atually do that Wirelessley (via WIFI 7 speeds) is of course a huge plus.

The most popular apple computer for professionals is the MacBookPro, it used to be the Mac Pro for many of us, but we've since moved to MBP because of the lack of attention the MP got over the years and the insane prices Apple demands for the MPs compread to the MBPs. With that said, you don't think we should expect the most popular "professional laptop" should get WIFI 7 when Apple already provides this on both regular and pro iPhone 16 phones? Which class of device do you think would benefit from the fastest current WIFI technology, a phone or a laptop people use for getting work done??? If they can squeeze in the cost of a WIFI7 modem in a $800 phone, they can't squeeze it into a $2000 laptop? It makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...
In what way did you consider my post "defending" the decision?

I merely pointed out that if WiFi 7 became a "defacto" standard, that older standards would still work.
 
Crazy how this M2 is doing me fine, yet I see the M4 Max, and I'm just getting 🤯 at the thought of getting one.
 
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creediddy said:
Here is a rule of thumb for everyone as Apple does not announce this information:

M3 Pro Performance = M4 Performance (estimation)
M3 Max Performance = M4 Pro Performance (estimation)

You can continue this performance trend year by year the results are nearly true. Essentially M5 chip will be an slightly improved M4 Pro chip.
Click to expand...

I don’t see how that is right.

The M2 is 11% faster/21% slower in single-core/multi-core compared to the M1 Pro.

The M2 Pro is 10%/15% faster vs. the M1 Max.

The M3 15% faster/19% slower vs. the M2 Pro.

And so on. I don’t see the usefulness of your rule of thumb.
 
Since the new M Chips are almost impossible to find out what to choose for what and how much memory to accompany the chip with, do I Choose an M4 Pro or an M4 Max, and when is it enough?
It is even harder now. When using some applications, do they benefit from the extra GPUs in the Max? If not, the Pro and the Max have almost identical CPU cores, so if no extra GPUs are needed, the Pro is a better choice. And with the amount of memory—48 GB or more—it just became harder.
I'm just a Photographer and videographer searching for some insights.
 
allquixotic said:
+15% CPU and +20% GPU isn't gonna get it done. Sorry Apple, I'm skipping this generation. Your inability to ship more RAM just cost you at least $8k from me.
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Thanks for the heads up... will quickly get my AAPL short sell order in on this major tip... that piddly 128GB limit on a notebook will certainly cause a crash in share price 🤣
 
chucker23n1 said:
I don’t see how that is right.

The M2 is 11% faster/21% slower in single-core/multi-core compared to the M1 Pro.

The M2 Pro is 10%/15% faster vs. the M1 Max.

The M3 15% faster/19% slower vs. the M2 Pro.

And so on. I don’t see the usefulness of your rule of thumb.
Click to expand...

Apple M4 (10-Core) vs M3 Pro: performance comparison

We compared Apple M4 (10-Core) (4.41 GHz) against M3 Pro (4.05 GHz) in games and benchmarks. Find out which CPU has better performance.
nanoreview.net nanoreview.net
 
allquixotic said:
I'm extremely disappointed that Apple did not increase the RAM on the top end M4 Max. We need more RAM for our generative AI (LLM) workloads, and this isn't getting it done. 48 GB sticks are available commercially; they could have slotted 4 x 48 GB modules for 192 GB on the top end. Why didn't they? Why?

+15% CPU and +20% GPU isn't gonna get it done. Sorry Apple, I'm skipping this generation. Your inability to ship more RAM just cost you at least $8k from me.
Click to expand...
If an LLM is your desire, then there are options for 8k...
 
Would appreciate feedback on M4 Pro vs M4 Max. Looking at ordering either one of the options below, priced both at $3,499. Would the Max be an upgrade or would the M4 Pro 48 GB perform just as good and have double the storage?

  • Apple M4 Pro chip with 14‑core CPU, 20‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
  • 48GB unified memory
  • 2TB SSD storage
Or

  • Apple M4 Max chip with 14‑core CPU, 32‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
  • 36GB unified memory
  • 1TB SSD storage
Based on the break down of specs, it seems to come down to difference of: 20-core (Pro) vs 32-core GPU (Max) and the bandwidth between the chips 273 GB/s (Pro) vs 410 GB/s (max). In your opinion would it be better to go with the Pro for higher RAM or the Max for higher bandwidth?
 
creediddy said:

Apple M4 (10-Core) vs M3 Pro: performance comparison

We compared Apple M4 (10-Core) (4.41 GHz) against M3 Pro (4.05 GHz) in games and benchmarks. Find out which CPU has better performance.
nanoreview.net nanoreview.net
Click to expand...
I'm confused, which rule of thumb? I didn't list one, just the link to someone else's benchmark result for M4 Pro.

When comparing between processor generations you want to look beyond just the number of cores. Per-core efficiency can be impacted by things like memory bandwidth, type of memory or CPU cache/TLB sizes. Apple has listed bandwidth for these new CPUs, but I can't yet find anywhere the next level of details about them.
 
xdjbx said:
Would appreciate feedback on M4 Pro vs M4 Max. Looking at ordering either one of the options below, priced both at $3,499. Would the Max be an upgrade or would the M4 Pro 48 GB perform just as good and have double the storage?

  • Apple M4 Pro chip with 14‑core CPU, 20‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
  • 48GB unified memory
  • 2TB SSD storage
Or

  • Apple M4 Max chip with 14‑core CPU, 32‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
  • 36GB unified memory
  • 1TB SSD storage
Based on the break down of specs, it seems to come down to difference of: 20-core (Pro) vs 32-core GPU (Max) and the bandwidth between the chips 273 GB/s (Pro) vs 410 GB/s (max). In your opinion would it be better to go with the Pro for higher RAM or the Max for higher bandwidth?
Click to expand...
What type of work do you perform? Does the work you perform require more than 36GB of RAM? Do you require more than 1TB of SSD? If not, the MacBook M4 Max is the ideal choice. The performance increases are worth the upgrade over the M4 Pro.
 
Javah said:
Since the new M Chips are almost impossible to find out what to choose for what and how much memory to accompany the chip with, do I Choose an M4 Pro or an M4 Max, and when is it enough?
It is even harder now. When using some applications, do they benefit from the extra GPUs in the Max? If not, the Pro and the Max have almost identical CPU cores, so if no extra GPUs are needed, the Pro is a better choice. And with the amount of memory—48 GB or more—it just became harder.
I'm just a Photographer and videographer searching for some insights.
Click to expand...
You may want to wait until after Nov 8 to order. By mid-November you should see some benchmark results on sites like dpreview or here comparing M4 Pro/Max with earlier CPUs/GPUs using the apps you use in your workflow. Apple posted some app perf examples in their mini and MB announcements, but your mileage may vary if you use different apps.

I shoot raw and use Bridge+Photoshop in my workflow today on an M1 Max Studio w/32GB. I decided to downsize to a mini with an M4 Pro but with 64GB RAM. I'm expecting at least 60% better performance in batch processing, and in noise processing for those rare times I push beyond ISO 1600.
 
allquixotic said:
I'm extremely disappointed that Apple did not increase the RAM on the top end M4 Max. We need more RAM for our generative AI (LLM) workloads, and this isn't getting it done. 48 GB sticks are available commercially; they could have slotted 4 x 48 GB modules for 192 GB on the top end. Why didn't they? Why?

+15% CPU and +20% GPU isn't gonna get it done. Sorry Apple, I'm skipping this generation. Your inability to ship more RAM just cost you at least $8k from me.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but what?

You're not looking for a max chip. You're looking for the Ultra in June.

I'm also buying a machine in the next two weeks for LLM workloads, and I'll wait for actual benchmark tests, but I'm pretty certain I'm going with the maxed out mini with (only) 64 gigs of ram. Why? Because cost benefit for the AI work I'm doing doesn't need more, and to get what I'd want in a max chip, the price goes up to about 5K. For 2K, I get a very fast very small machine that will run smaller models at fantastic speeds, and medium models fine, in theory.

8K price is fine for very, very specific use case, but that's an ultra chip, if you are truly on the high end of LLM workloads.

On the other hand, you could also just build a windows or Linux LLM machine for 7K running duel 4090's, and then if you prefer mac OS buy a Pro or a mini and run it through them lol.
 
AmpedToGo said:
I'm confused, which rule of thumb? I didn't list one, just the link to someone else's benchmark result for M4 Pro.

When comparing between processor generations you want to look beyond just the number of cores. Per-core efficiency can be impacted by things like memory bandwidth, type of memory or CPU cache/TLB sizes. Apple has listed bandwidth for these new CPUs, but I can't yet find anywhere the next level of details about them.
Click to expand...
The comparison is between M4 vs M3 Pro. In computation both chips will have similar performance. The Pro chips will have more cores for GPU. CPU computation will be similar. There isn't much information on M4 Pro and M4 Max yet.
 
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xdjbx said:
Would appreciate feedback on M4 Pro vs M4 Max. Looking at ordering either one of the options below, priced both at $3,499. Would the Max be an upgrade or would the M4 Pro 48 GB perform just as good and have double the storage?

  • Apple M4 Pro chip with 14‑core CPU, 20‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
  • 48GB unified memory
  • 2TB SSD storage
Or

  • Apple M4 Max chip with 14‑core CPU, 32‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
  • 36GB unified memory
  • 1TB SSD storage
Based on the break down of specs, it seems to come down to difference of: 20-core (Pro) vs 32-core GPU (Max) and the bandwidth between the chips 273 GB/s (Pro) vs 410 GB/s (max). In your opinion would it be better to go with the Pro for higher RAM or the Max for higher bandwidth?
Click to expand...

Get the Max if you do very GPU-heavy stuff. Otherwise, the Pro.
 
creediddy said:

Apple M4 (10-Core) vs M3 Pro: performance comparison

We compared Apple M4 (10-Core) (4.41 GHz) against M3 Pro (4.05 GHz) in games and benchmarks. Find out which CPU has better performance.
nanoreview.net nanoreview.net
Click to expand...

I guess I’m confused what you’re building your “rule of thumb” on. It doesn’t ring true for previous generations, and for the M4 Pro and Max, we don’t have any data yet. Nor is the M4 similar in performance to the M3 Pro.
 
triumph71 said:
Power requirements makes no sense either iPhone 16 with WIFI 7 has much tighter power and battery requirements than a laptop.
Click to expand...
Doesn't mean that they would use the same exact chip. And the IPhone 16 wasn't designed with a 20+ hr battery life.
 
xdjbx said:
Would appreciate feedback on M4 Pro vs M4 Max. Looking at ordering either one of the options below, priced both at $3,499. Would the Max be an upgrade or would the M4 Pro 48 GB perform just as good and have double the storage?

  • Apple M4 Pro chip with 14‑core CPU, 20‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
  • 48GB unified memory
  • 2TB SSD storage
Or

  • Apple M4 Max chip with 14‑core CPU, 32‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
  • 36GB unified memory
  • 1TB SSD storage
Based on the break down of specs, it seems to come down to difference of: 20-core (Pro) vs 32-core GPU (Max) and the bandwidth between the chips 273 GB/s (Pro) vs 410 GB/s (max). In your opinion would it be better to go with the Pro for higher RAM or the Max for higher bandwidth?
Click to expand...
Why not wait till benchmarks come out. It won't be long. Then you can make an informed decision. Plus depends on your workflow. Do you need the onboard storage? You can get an external for far less the price difference. Do you need more RAM? What do you plan to do with your laptop? A quick down and dirty, looking at M3's... would you have gotten M3 Pro or Max? If you need more GPU power, the Max.
 
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macduke said:
Damn, the M4 Max (low) only supports 36GB memory. For comparison, the M3 Max (low) supported up to 96GB. Apple is really squeezing people to upgrade to the topmost spec to get more memory. What's even crazier is the M4 Pro in the Mac mini can be configured to 64GB memory but in the MacBook Pro the M4 Pro is limited to 48GB. Why??
Click to expand...
Also the iMac reqires 512GB SSD for 32 GB, while the Mini doesn't. Stupid artificial limitations to generate upsell and/or departments not communicating with each other AT ALL. While it includes very much welcome improvements, but consistency wise the M4 lineup is a hot stinking mess.
 
mazz0 said:
Why can't you get the Max in a Mac Mini? If the cooling in the MacBook Pro is sufficient you'd think the cooling in the Mini would be too (even the new tiny one). Probably to help them differentiate the Studio (and charge extra for it).
Click to expand...
In M2 generation Apple charged same for Studio M2 Max and Mini M2 Pro. So for high-spec desktop Studio was an easy choice.

Studio M2 Max (12c, 30g) / 32GB / 1TB price was equal to Mini M2 Pro (12c, 19g) / 32GB / 1TB.
Plus better Ethernet, ports and cooling on Studio.
 
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