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That’s exactly what she is. Just another music industry puppet, pushing an agenda through her music in exchange for fame and fortune.
"VigilantCitizen", huh? Looking around the website you cite, it looks very much like it is for, and by, fearful people who want to stoke their fear. People very worried about the occult and the Illuminati (yeah). The same kind of people who, a few decades back, were absolutely convinced that albums played backwards had satanic messages in them that were turning kids evil. Serious tinfoil-hat territory.
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That’s an unhappy looking lady.
Meh, she looks like a beautiful young woman who's sick and tired of being told, "you should smile more."
 
People are really showing their ages in this post. Whew.
So are you with your sig. *groan*
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Meh, she looks like a beautiful young woman who's sick and tired of being told, "you should smile more."
Well, little Wednesday Addams better start smiling otherwise her record company is going to drop her. Image is more important than music to those parasites.

My teenaged students love her music. As someone said, they relate to the dark and melancholic side.

I thought the "three words away from suicidal" emo-chick schtick went out in the '80s.
 
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Some of you acting like every major label band in the last 60 years hasn't been a corporate puppet in some way or another. The '80s were the dictionary definition of "sellout".
 
"VigilantCitizen", huh? Looking around the website you cite, it looks very much like it is for, and by, fearful people who want to stoke their fear. People very worried about the occult and the Illuminati (yeah). The same kind of people who, a few decades back, were absolutely convinced that albums played backwards had satanic messages in them that were turning kids evil. Serious tinfoil-hat territory.
[doublepost=1564731438][/doublepost]Meh, she looks like a beautiful young woman who's sick and tired of being told, "you should smile more."
It’s not tinfoil hat territory, to see the same pattern resolve itself over and over again, same messages and imagery and mental breakdowns over and over again.

And it was my own teenager who pointed it out to me as one by one her favorite artists succumbed to the same rote spiral into weirdness and dysfunction and progressively more formulaic output and style under the guise of “maturing”. Actually, far from maturing, the quality of their work became more basic and puerile.

And all that morose or satanic or occult nonsense is their gig, not ours. We don’t need some odd web site pointing it out. It’s just there in the music and the videos and concerts. Lol, just listen to a Muse album where they play around with that message.

Some declare their allegiance or embrace of the occult weird stuff openly and sincerely. I was a huge Blondie fan as a kid and Chris Stein was supposedly into witchcraft and voodoo in a big way and allegedly incorporated voodoo into “Rapture” somehow. It’s what he sincerely believes in, or so one of his band mates/friend has said. Some just do it for shock value because they think it makes them look like serious artists.

Whatever the reason for it, it’s getting old and stale. If it’s the industry power brokers doing that to the artists either because they actually believe in that stuff or because they think it’s cool and sells, I wish they’d lay off because it makes everything look and sound the same. If it’s the artists, they should take more vacations to clear their heads and come up with something that hasn’t already been done to death and frankly done better. At the very least please stop using pythons in everything.

“Hey Morty, this is my third album and my 5th music video...go get me a python to hold while I gyrate and pout out the lyrics. Kthanx.” :rolleyes:

Edit to add: it’s fine that she doesn’t smile. Many women are sick of being expected to smile all the time. It’s the dead eyed look. All the models and music artists, especially female ones either want to pose or are told to pose with resting corpse face. I think people are much more engaging when they look like there’s something going on between their ears.
 
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I'm "older" and really enjoy her music. Her music videos are a trip.

I introduced her to the grandkids. They love her music. Looking forward to her next release.

Gotta keep an open mind people. I also like Jazz, blues, classic rock, and classical to name a few, and introduced the grandkids to Vinyl records. Music is a universal language and something to share.

Dave Grohl said:

"We went to go see her play at the Wiltern, and the connection that she has with her audience is the same thing that was happening with Nirvana in 1991. The people in the audience knew every word. And it was like our little secret. So I don't know...and her music is hard to define! I don't know what you call it! I try to describe her to people and I don't know.......I don't even know what to call it. But it's authentic".

"...When I look at someone like Billie Eilish, I'm like...**** man....rock n roll is not even close to being dead..."
 
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I used to criticize music before I heard it when I was younger. Can’t judge a book by its cover. Her music IS hard to define. It can be ‘pop’ and then switch into some Beatleseque transition. She has layers and layers of harmonies that’ll make Beach Boys fans Smile.

The first half of her album is certainly geared towards a younger audience while still having an amazing old school vibe with the arrangements and subtle ear surprises.

The 2nd half (specially the last 4 songs) are what separates her imo. The last songs are moving and powerful, they’ll make your favorite artist smile at what her and her brother pull off.


True music fans don’t start to bitch and complain. A true music fan will listen first.
 
That’s an unhappy looking lady.

Hahahaha! Yes! This comment! This guy/ girl gets it! She is the most try hard, cringe, fake singer I can remember. I get that she is trying to be “dark and mysterious” but it is packaged so ... H&M? So Hit Topic?Very “entry level” dark for school kids, even Bjork is more dangerous. I remember, my wife’s college said, that her lyrics are brootal and dark and she likes it that way. And we both(listened for metal and it’s sub genres for 15+ years) bursted in laughter- it is radio pop for pre teen girls, it is absolutely least dark thing in the last 3+ years, no one will remember her by next summer, just like we forgot Lorde and Nicky and all other pop artists. Pop is pop. Pop fans don’t care about songs or artists, they just move to some other trendy singer and then forget about it and move on. Don’t mistake her for something big or important.
 
I used to criticize music before I heard it when I was younger. Can’t judge a book by its cover. Her music IS hard to define. It can be ‘pop’ and then switch into some Beatleseque transition. She has layers and layers of harmonies that’ll make Beach Boys fans Smile.

The first half of her album is certainly geared towards a younger audience while still having an amazing old school vibe with the arrangements and subtle ear surprises.

The 2nd half (specially the last 4 songs) are what separates her imo. The last songs are moving and powerful, they’ll make your favorite artist smile at what her and her brother pull off.


True music fans don’t start to bitch and complain. A true music fan will listen first.
The marketing so often unfortunately obscures the talent. That’s always been true though. Lol there was even a Brady Bunch episode about how shallow the industry can be.

I think that’s why I enjoy using Shazam because I’ll be out somewhere and just hear the song with no visuals or anything else giving me preconceived notions that might put me off. I’ve found some of my favorite current artists that way. And some that are older but I missed out on a few years ago for whatever reason.

However, quite sheepishly I admit to discovering Lucius from a Samsung commercial. :rolleyes:
 
Lol lots of old "get off my lawn" people in here.

I never understood being elitist because of music.
Everything sounds like “get off my lawn” when you’re still in diapers.

You might want to consider getting off your self-absorbed high horse.
 
You'd think curmudgeonly folk would realize that life's too short to be hateful of what others enjoy. Did they forget that the same tune was being sung when Elvis shook his tush in the 50s, or when the Beatles jabbed at Jesus in the 60s, or when Bowie gender-bent in the 70s, or when Madonna was liberated in the 80s, or when ....
 
You'd think curmudgeonly folk would realize that life's too short to be hateful of what others enjoy. Did they forget that the same tune was being sung when Elvis shook his tush in the 50s, or when the Beatles jabbed at Jesus in the 60s, or when Bowie gender-bent in the 70s, or when Madonna was liberated in the 80s, or when ....
Yep, summary of many comments in this thread: "today's kids are listening to music that's bad, wrong, possibly dangerous, and sung/played by talentless hacks, not like the music we used to listen to" (ignoring that in many cases their parents likely felt the same way about their music). This same argument/lament is easy to spot, as you say, going back to the emergence of Elvis Presley, though I suppose it was probably said of lute players a thousand years ago.

I'm listening to her album (in the background, while doing other things), and it's not horrible. It's evoking a bit of Tori Amos and Massive Attack for me, but that's probably as much connected to music familiar to me as to Ms. Eilish's music.

When folks say, in relation to this recurring lament about the new music of the day, "no no, this time it's different", my eyes roll so much it hurts.

And, hey, people are still complaining on this thread, on the very day we get Tool's catalog on Apple Music. It could be worse. It could be raining.
 
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If her music is pushing an agenda I think I've missed it.

People think everyone has an agenda these days and everything is black and white. There is no middle ground, and if you don't see it the same way they do then you are wrong. Worse, if you try to reason with people or question their opinion, or try to have a conversation, the personal attacks start. I thought music was a safe place that brought people together. Apparently not.

Even if she is a one hit wonder she made a contribution. I remember Manfred Mann and their song Blinded by the light. I don't remember what else they did, and who cares. A great song is a great song and will live on. Whether a song comes from Bob Dylan or Billie Eilish should make no difference. If people enjoy it that's good enough for me. No agenda needed.

Speaking of Dylan, he is a great example of someone who was known as an activist with an agenda. Whether it be poetry or politics nobody seems to complain about him or his Nobel prize.

Yet, somebody new comes along and everyone starts whining about agendas.
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mediocre at best. not much longevity here.

I read they used to say the same thing about Beethoven.
 
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I never said she wasn’t talented. What I did say, however, is that she’s just one of many young people being used to influence the masses. Particularly younger audiences, which are the most impressionable.

And I never claimed to know anything about her. What I am commenting on is the material she’s putting out. And guess what, it’s not unique or original. It’s the same imagery and symbolism being propagated by the other people who currently sit at the top of the charts and enjoy success in the music industry.

You’d have to be obtuse and willfully blind to not see the repetition and what the underlying message is. — If truly you don’t, then I feel very sorry for you.

Guess I see things differently. It's easy to see agendas everywhere these days. If this weren't the internet, we could probably chat and I'd try to understand where you're coming from. For now though, I'll probably just continue to enjoy her music. Take care.
 
That’s exactly what she is. Just another music industry puppet, pushing an agenda through her music in exchange for fame and fortune. I’m glad I’m too old to be influenced by this garbage.

Milli Vanilli, Back Street Boys, on and on...

So many... I was shocked when I heard that more bands were on 'farewell tours'. Once the good ones are done, the industry will have won. So sad...

I'm waiting for the next payola scandal. I listen to Sirius/XM Lithium, and aside from the featured act Tom (somebody), they play the same damn music every day. I have discovered that they will play the same band, but a different track, sometimes, at the same time during the day. It's all probably on a SSD drive that they get every day, and slam it in the machine and hit the button at the right time. Or, I've wondered this, it's an app running on a DOS system, picking tracks out of a huge music database.

*SIGH*
 
It’s not tinfoil hat territory, to see the same pattern resolve itself over and over again, same messages and imagery and mental breakdowns over and over again.

And it was my own teenager who pointed it out to me as one by one her favorite artists succumbed to the same rote spiral into weirdness and dysfunction and progressively more formulaic output and style under the guise of “maturing”. Actually, far from maturing, the quality of their work became more basic and puerile.

And all that morose or satanic or occult nonsense is their gig, not ours. We don’t need some odd web site pointing it out. It’s just there in the music and the videos and concerts. Lol, just listen to a Muse album where they play around with that message.

Some declare their allegiance or embrace of the occult weird stuff openly and sincerely. I was a huge Blondie fan as a kid and Chris Stein was supposedly into witchcraft and voodoo in a big way and allegedly incorporated voodoo into “Rapture” somehow. It’s what he sincerely believes in, or so one of his band mates/friend has said. Some just do it for shock value because they think it makes them look like serious artists.

Whatever the reason for it, it’s getting old and stale. If it’s the industry power brokers doing that to the artists either because they actually believe in that stuff or because they think it’s cool and sells, I wish they’d lay off because it makes everything look and sound the same. If it’s the artists, they should take more vacations to clear their heads and come up with something that hasn’t already been done to death and frankly done better. At the very least please stop using pythons in everything.

“Hey Morty, this is my third album and my 5th music video...go get me a python to hold while I gyrate and pout out the lyrics. Kthanx.” :rolleyes:

Edit to add: it’s fine that she doesn’t smile. Many women are sick of being expected to smile all the time. It’s the dead eyed look. All the models and music artists, especially female ones either want to pose or are told to pose with resting corpse face. I think people are much more engaging when they look like there’s something going on between their ears.

Nothing like a long and rambling reply to prove you're not in tinfoil hat territory...
 
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I never said she wasn’t talented. What I did say, however, is that she’s just one of many young people being used to influence the masses. Particularly younger audiences, which are the most impressionable.

And I never claimed to know anything about her. What I am commenting on is the material she’s putting out. And guess what, it’s not unique or original. It’s the same imagery and symbolism being propagated by the other people who currently sit at the top of the charts and enjoy success in the music industry.

You’d have to be obtuse and willfully blind to not see the repetition and what the underlying message is. — If truly you don’t, then I feel very sorry for you.

Someone’s been watching too much A Call For An Uprising on YouTube. ;)
 
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Ok I'm sure she's a good singer and all.. but Billie, sweetie... it's barely been 10 years.. pls DO NOT bring back the emo/scene craze..

not that you could anyway.. it's just not the right time. Try something else, yeh? ;)
 
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It’s not tinfoil hat territory, to see the same pattern resolve itself over and over again, same messages and imagery and mental breakdowns over and over again.

And it was my own teenager who pointed it out to me as one by one her favorite artists succumbed to the same rote spiral into weirdness and dysfunction and progressively more formulaic output and style under the guise of “maturing”. Actually, far from maturing, the quality of their work became more basic and puerile.
Lots and lots of artists start out with a pent up supply of good material inside them, and it all (or nearly all) goes on their first album. There are a handful for whom that supply of good material is just the tip of the iceberg, and the lucky few who can continuously generate a fresh supply. For many others, the supply dries up and they're left casting around for suggestions of what to do.

And, of course, if they had a smashing first album, everyone's expectations are that the second album should be even better. Look up "second album syndrome". As well, all that material going onto the first album or two has a ring of authenticity to it because they wrote it when they were a "starving artist" trying to make it big. Once they get fame and fortune, it distorts their world view quite a bit (for many, not all). People can identify with the songs on your first album about not getting respect or trying to make ends meet, or the guy/girl you have a crush on who won't give you the time of day. Your second album, with songs where either you're trying to remember what it was like back before you were famous - that starts to sound inauthentic - or you're complaining about how your personal chef didn't prepare your favorite dish quite right... fewer people can identify with that.

You get more detached from "the real world", and your material gets weirder. I mean, some make it through just fine, others not so much. Robin Williams' quote, "Cocaine is God’s way of telling you that you make too much money," is funny because it's kinda true. Some of the most brilliant / talented musicians died young (look up "27 Club") - part of their musical energy was driven by their internal turmoil, sometimes that turmoil was exacerbated by becoming super popular overnight (suddenly everyone wants to be with you - that's fun for a while, then you start to wonder if they really like you, or like hanging around with the character you're essentially playing).

I don't think it's a concerted effort by the entertainment industry to get stars involved in the occult, or dark imagery, or whatever (suddenly I have this image of Jon Lovitz as the devil, in SNL's "Iran's Most Wanted", saying, "don't you think you could make this part a little more... blasphemous?"). What I see is a lot of young people who become famous (possibly because they are drawing on the pain from bad events in their past), and then don't cope well with the weird lens that stardom puts on one's view of life, and feel intense pressure to invent something new that's equal to, or better than, the thing that made them famous - and not too different from it, lest fans complain about it not being the thing they like, but not just "part 2" of the first thing because fans will complain that it's the same. And their new material doesn't hold a candle to what brought them fame.

And that website, "Vigilant Citizen", was all about, "no, see, this is a global conspiracy, only we know the truth." Yeah, that is tin-foil hat territory.
Edit to add: it’s fine that she doesn’t smile. Many women are sick of being expected to smile all the time. It’s the dead eyed look. All the models and music artists, especially female ones either want to pose or are told to pose with resting corpse face. I think people are much more engaging when they look like there’s something going on between their ears.
She's a teenaged girl. Lots and lots of teenagers go through a goth phase (it's almost more unusual when they don't) - this isn't just something that only happens to musicians (it's a part of rebelling against parents, authority, and society). Though usually there's more black eyeliner and eye shadow involved. Maybe the sleepy / no eye makeup is the new variant of that (it's not something I really keep up on). Fashion does weird things. And you're interpreting intelligence / thinking from facial expression. That seems like just a different variation on the "women should smile all the time" notion. You're just layering different expectations on them. Right after pointing out that the "women should smile all the time" expectation is a problem.
 
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