Apple Announces Penryn Mac Pros and Xserve

[AidenShaw]

That said... isn't the whole appeal of 120Hz simply the fact that it's evenly divisible by both 60fps and 24fps so that you can avoid jittery 3:2 pulldown when presenting film-sourced content? In other words it's not that 120Hz is desirable on its face, but that it's good to be able to display 24fps content without molesting it.

That's certainly a factor, and explains why "120" and not "100" or "150". On the other hand, most people can discern the 60Hz flicker of older fluorescent lamps - and in Europe the 50Hz flicker can be disturbing. Televisions with 100Hz refresh have been common in Europe for 15 years or more.

If you've seen a demo of 120Hz vs 60Hz, the difference can be dramatic. Any scene with moving straight lines is vastly better at 120Hz. For example, I saw a split screen of moving text (like the original Star Wars movie intro). The 60Hz side was basically unreadable - the 120Hz side was smooth and perfect.

I'm not sure the existence of 120Hz displays really makes your point.

Of course you're right - but a common technique in debating is to bring up a fact that clearly contradicts a claim of the other side.

Call one point into question, and you make the reader wonder about the whole argument.

 

[bobsbarricades]

TOTALLY off topic but..

If at first you don't succeed,
skydiving is not for you!

isn't that the single best quote you've ever seen?

 

[mistercoffee2]

Mac Pro BTO delay?

I have never ordered a BTO product until now.

If the new Mac Pro is in retail stores now, why does it take 5 weeks to ship a BTO machine. Is it because the 8800GT is not yet available?

Ordered yesterday, Ships by: Feb 13, Delivers by: Feb 19

Is this normal? Anyone else have order with comparable delay?

Thanks

 

[mistercoffee2]

Mac Pro Memory

Best place to get PC2-6400 FB_DIMM.

MemoryAmerica.com
OWC memory from eshop.macsales.com

Others?

Thanks

 

[MacRoom]

Could Be A New Card Or Drivers Still Need To Be Written

I have never ordered a BTO product until now.

If the new Mac Pro is in retail stores now, why does it take 5 weeks to ship a BTO machine. Is it because the 8800GT is not yet available?

Ordered yesterday, Ships by: Feb 13, Delivers by: Feb 19

Is this normal? Anyone else have order with comparable delay?

Thanks

My GUESS is Could Be A New Card Or Drivers Still Need To Be Written.

My related question is will the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory cooperatively co-reside with a couple of the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory base cards in there as well?

And will the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory work in the previous Mac Pro?

Anyone? Please? Neither of these cards are for sale ala carte in the displays section of accessories. So how do we order both at once?

 

[Umbongo]

My GUESS is Could Be A New Card Or Drivers Still Need To Be Written.

My related question is will the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory cooperatively co-reside with a couple of the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory base cards in there as well?

And will the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory work in the previous Mac Pro?

Anyone? Please? Neither of these cards are for sale ala carte in the displays section of accessories. So how do we order both at once?

They are both in the storage of accessories.

 

[BackInTheSaddle]

Glad I sold my Quad Xeon on eBay a couple weeks ago...they were moving briskly then...wonder how they're selling now?

 

[MacRoom]

So Both These Cards With the PCI Express 2.0 Interface Are Not Downwards Compatible?

Will the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory cooperatively co-reside with a couple of the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory base cards in there as well?

And will the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT with 256MB of GDDR3 memory work in the previous Mac Pro?

Neither of these cards are for sale ala carte in the displays section of accessories.

They are both in the storage of accessories.

Thanks very much. What a strange location for them to appear in with all those hard drives near the bottom of the page.

I guess I'll order without the GeForce 8800 GT and ask at MacWorld then add it if they can run without conflicts together. Or maybe I'll just wait until after MacWorld to order. Won't be here to receive it next week anyway.

So Both These Cards With the PCI Express 2.0 Interface Are Not Downwards Compatible with PCI Express 1.0? Is it a different connector? I'm PCI Express 2.0 illiterate. Thanks for a straight answer someone please?

Off the phone with Apple Tech and the word is the new ATI card WILL NOT WORK in the original Mac Pros.

Coexistence with the NVIDEA GeForce 8800 GT is NOT recommended but they couldn't tell me WHY NOT?

 

[TBi]

Thanks very much. What a strange location for them to appear in with all those hard drives near the bottom of the page.

I guess I'll order without the GeForce 8800 GT and ask at MacWorld then add it if they can run without conflicts together. Or maybe I'll just wait until after MacWorld to order. Won't be here to receive it next week anyway.

So Both These Cards With the PCI Express 2.0 Interface Are Not Downwards Compatible with PCI Express 1.0? Is it a different connector? I'm PCI Express 2.0 illiterate. Thanks for a straight answer someone please?

They should run fine together, my friends runs his older mac pro with an ATi and an nVidia card. Doesn't play nice with Vista though

A PCI 2 card will work in a PCI 1 slot. All the 8800GT's are 2.0 and they all run on 1.0 slots.

 

[ts1973]

So Both These Cards With the PCI Express 2.0 Interface Are Not Downwards Compatible with PCI Express 1.0? Is it a different connector? I'm PCI Express 2.0 illiterate. Thanks for a straight answer someone please?

Unfortunately a completely straight answer is not possible, but here's the certain part : the connectors are the same.

The not so straight answer then PCI 2.0 is made such that it "should" be completely compatible with 1.0. This means that 1.0 cards work in a 2.0 socket, and 2.0 cards work in a 1.0 socket. The regulations made by the PCIe commission are very clear on this. HOWEVER, there have been reports of lackluster compatibility on the PC side of things. Problems are scarce, but there are problems. Ultimately there's also the possibility of course that Apple chooses in one way or the other to limit the compatibility all together, knowingly. I hope not of course.

Edit : for further reading I'd like to refer to a good friend's article on Anandtech : PCI Express 2.0: Scalable Interconnect Technology, TNG

 

[ts1973]

Another word from Barefeats :

"ALERT TO OWNERS OF "OLD" MAC PROS! (CORRECTED)
The GeForce 8800 GT is *NOT* compatible with the older Mac Pro (August 2006, April 2007) as we assumed. I've been informed that new machines use EFI64, the old Mac Pros use EFI32, to work in an EFI32 machine you need an EFI32 ROM."

Seems like a bad move to me Then again, I don' know the reason for the switch from EFI32 to EFI64 (if anyone does, please add on).

 

[akadmon]

Another word from Barefeats :

"ALERT TO OWNERS OF "OLD" MAC PROS! (CORRECTED)
The GeForce 8800 GT is *NOT* compatible with the older Mac Pro (August 2006, April 2007) as we assumed. I've been informed that new machines use EFI64, the old Mac Pros use EFI32, to work in an EFI32 machine you need an EFI32 ROM."

Seems like a bad move to me Then again, I don' know the reason for the switch from EFI32 to EFI64 (if anyone does, please add on).

Anybody know the installed base of Mac Pros (excluding this release)? I'm afraid it is too small for Apple to ever bother giving us an video upgrade option

 

[Setmose]

still off topic...

My favorite tagline quote comes from a Unix group .sig:

I want to pass on like my Grandfather did: quietly in his sleep. Not screaming like the passengers in his car.

TOTALLY off topic but..



isn't that the single best quote you've ever seen?

 

[Groove Yard]

any thoughts on the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT and final cut pro?

any thoughts on the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT and final cut pro?
I run 3 screens so it seems the only option is to get 2 x ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT.
Is it possible to mix with 1 ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT and 1 NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT?
Or is it better to go with 2 x NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT? Is that even an option with apple?
Cheers
P

 

[takao]

That's certainly a factor, and explains why "120" and not "100" or "150". On the other hand, most people can discern the 60Hz flicker of older fluorescent lamps - and in Europe the 50Hz flicker can be disturbing. Televisions with 100Hz refresh have been common in Europe for 15 years or more.

yeah and the difference can be gigantic...

currently my sister is doing a promotion for panasonic and in the store they have a 100 (or 120 ?) hz lcd set up besides the lesser model from panasonic which is identical besides the panel and my sister says that not a single customer has choosen the normal panel

after all if the human eye can't see a difference between 100 hz and 60 hz then the refresh rate wouldn't have been such a issue with CRTs

 

[Digital Skunk]

Anybody know the installed base of Mac Pros (excluding this release)? I'm afraid it is too small for Apple to ever bother giving us an video upgrade option

That is been the third issue i have had with Apple. Once a machine has gotten pushed back by a new model it's virtually impossible to find upgrades for them on Apple's site and sometimes anywhere else. Then, you are usually stuck with one or two choices for upgrading either way. I can only find two options for GFX card upgrades on my PowerMac G5 and one of them is the Quadra FX at $1500.

 

[ob81]

Kind of sucks. Buy a comp with the sole factor being that you can upgrade it, and then bam, you can't.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Kind of sucks. Buy a comp with the sole factor being that you can upgrade it, and then bam, you can't.

You can, but if you don't have the cash to spend on certain parts then you are boned. Apple and GFX cards have been kind weird lately. Back in the day when there wasn't a very noticeable difference between each competing GFX card it didn't matter as much, but now that we have the same hardware as PCs, GFX card tech is changing by the month, and new firmware allows for greater speed depending on the software that you run and so forth we see a difference in how each machine handles their cards. Apple is stuck somewhere in the middle in my book, you have options, but after you pay for that mid range Nvidia card there is now where else to go but the "double wide" that costs more than your tower.

Everything else, RAM, HDD, PCI expansion, monitors, audio, etc. is just fine. I am stoked that I can get 16GB of RAM for $800 for this new Mac Pro. Glad I was poor about a year ago... forced me to wait.

 

[slackpacker]

The Mac Pros were desperately out of date. The new ones are a mixed bag of good, bad and possibly ugly news in my opinion.

The Good:
More and faster processors/bus speed. Very nice
More RAM. About time
Updated OPTIONAL video card options. Way past due

The Bad: (not what IS but what IS NOT included)
No HDMI input/output (this is EXTREMELY bad for video professionals, professionals in general)
No Blu-Ray option (I really don't know where Apple's head is stuck but it must be a deep dark hole. Steve's ass?)
No eSATA support (give me a break Apple, pathetic. Yeah, Steve's ass)

The Ugly:
The once Crown Jewel is now relegated to a quiet refresh AFTER 18 MONTHS!!! I am not sure what this means for the Mac, if no answers come at Macworld it can only spell bad news. If Apple goes yet another 12-18 months to come up to what Dell and others have been offering for 6 months or so (Blu-Ray option) it becomes clear Apple doesn't have long to enjoy the positive spotlight.

Considering what IS NOT included in this much delayed refresh, I don't see how Apple can call these works stations keeping a straight face.

Your list of Bad stuff is pretty pathetic..... All of these things can be added with cards... I don't need those "features"..... I want them optional like they are now. Blu-Ray basically just today became a standard... but again the cheapest BRAY is around $200 ..... I don't want it now.... I don't want to pay a premium for it.... leave it optional.

 

[Setmose]

Thrustmaster Cougar Works Just Fine in OS X

Well, if you are serious about online "dialog" you shouldn't be so quick on the trigger.

I never said I wanted a computer for gaming only. Go back and read my posts again.

I am a professional Mac user. I also like computer games. I don't want to buy 2 computers. I am happy to have witnessed the "best of both worlds" (yich, I can't believe I just quoted Hannah Montana) evolve for *my requirements*.

As for your doubts about my TM Cougar and OS X, well as they say in the lawyer TV dramas -- never ask a question you don't know the answer to. Of course it works! You can use it as a raw HID device, or you can program it via 2 paths: program the stick on a PC and then connect to Mac (supported by the software author James Hallows), or use an OS X device intercept layer program such as USB Overdrive or (my choice) ControllerMate. Your "doubt" is certainly misplaced.

I take it you were typing too furiously and "opps" should be "oops" etc.

Sheesh -- gamers are not lepers. In this thread there has been a lot of animus against gamers. The major Mac websites will all post gaming benchmarks for the new machines over the next couple of weeks. That means there is certainly an interest is running games (OS X or Windows) on a Mac.

Here is a "clue" from me: Lighten up!

Indeed, if you are truly that serious about your gaming you should just get a PC, period.

Why pay for 8 processors when 99.99% of the games out there are not even multi-threaded? Why pay 300% the price of a equivalent speed PC (clock speed wise) when you can get it quicker 18 months ago?

8 cores at 3.2Ghz is not going to make you any difference when 2 cores at 3.2Ghz with a faster GPU will toast your hide.

Macs are just not targetted towards games, period. If anything the rapid hardware updates, wide driver availability, and vast upgrade options should have clued you in a bit.

I doubt your Thrustmaster Cougar even works under OS X! Oh, and playing under boot camp? *accidentally hits Alt-Key* Windows menu popup... Opps!

 

[Setmose]

OS X is a Serious Tool for Aerospace

We use it for missile defense physics simulations -- both the Cocoa and the XWindows frameworks. We use it also for radar simulations and C3I command interface simulations. It is also a very good gaming machine.

****: I'm a Mechanical Engineer and Computer Scientist. I could give two tit's whether or not the Gaming World explodes all over the Mac.

The 8800GT isn't an Engineering Card. The 5400FX is an Engineering Card, but it's the Top End and there are no other options. As I stated in an earlier thread, this card is phenomenal but who gives a rat's ass when I can't utilize it in this machine without switching to Linux or Windows?

Apple has to start partnering and catering the Engineering worlds and not just play best buds with the Music/Video industry.

Apple's a complete joke in the worlds of Mechanical, Civil, Chemical, Structural, MEMS, Materials Engineering fields.

 

[akadmon]

We use it for missile defense physics simulations -- both the Cocoa and the XWindows frameworks. We use it also for radar simulations and C3I command interface simulations. It is also a very good gaming machine.

Care to divulge any other state secrets?

 

[Setmose]

Yes: Israeli women are the most beautiful in the world.

Care to divulge any other state secrets?

 

[persona1138]

OMG...People STOP asking for it!!!!As someone already nicely described, how the hell you could expect blue-ray. Its massive technology which will need a lot of space/cooling. Plus what about media? Do you think 30" display will do to watch it? What about output like HDMI. Where is it.
You need wait longer for bluray to be put inside Mac Pros........a far longer.

Man, y'know, why do forums bring out the angriest in people?

The reason I asked for Blu-Ray is NOT because I'm anxious to watch Pirates of the Caribbean on a 30 inch monitor... I'm an editor, I work in HD, and I'd like to be able to deliver content to people on the latest and greatest technology available, to be played on other standalone Blu-Ray players.

Yes, it's needs cooling, but it doesn't need a refrigerator, for gods sake. And I agree, A LOT of people on this forum have been asking for it, to no avail... But guess what? If enough people on forums say there's something they really want, companies take notice. Sure, we won't be seeing a BD internal drive in a Mac anytime soon, but a simple post asking for it isn't killing anyone.

Dude... Chill out.

 

[mistercoffee2]

Mac Pro BTO delay?

Apple confurmed, in an email, that the 5 week delay in shipping the new Mac Pro BTO with the 8800GT video card is due to the card not being availiable.