Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
[...]

Today’s Apple is run by the bean counters that don’t care about the subtle difference between x and z and don’t want to spend $y per unit more to go with z when they think x will lead to higher margins and more bottom line. The customers are now the product - just look at the services and, more recently, the Ads push.
The product is still what the customers buys. Ads don't make the customer the product.
This is not Steve’s Apple.
Yes, thankfully.
So if you have a problem with stale, recycled designs - guess what? Clearly Evans does too because she’s leaving what used to be the most desirable job in the entire product design universe. That should tell you all you need to know about what’s going on inside of the company, and why we are stuck with the same slabs of slightly different shades year after year.
Really? What is exactly the reason Evans is leaving? Do you know? Gd forbid, does she have cancer and want to spend the remaining time with her family? Was leaving at this time the plan all along? Evans is leaving, ergo, the company is ****ed up, doesn't track.
Your beef is not with the head of the design group, no matter who it is. Jony left for the same exact reasons.
Really? You are a 100% sure of that with proof I suppose.
Think deeper people. The magic is dead inside Apple and the shift from design-lead to operations-lead is complete. We will see more talent leave.
You believe the magic is dead, ergo anything you say about the company revolves around that. Others think differently.
 
I don't ever want to see a finger touch input Mac because usability-wise it's not great on a mouse interface but I do think Pencil only support would be nice for people who want to draw. I'd love to see a modern version of the sun flower iMac that can do this.
I totally understand, though I'm more of a "Have it and not need it" kind of guy. If you don't need it, don't use it. If you do, fine. I agree on the smaller GUI elements. My fingers are to big and clumsy for that kind of stuff. However, some things like moving around clips in iMovie and GarageBand might be fine. Whatever floats your boat. I just don't see mouse vs touch being a totally mutually-exclusive kind of thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: szw-mapple fan
It takes years for a product to go from design to reality.You won't see any products she has taken part in until a few years in the future. The current ones, including the m1 Macs, are thanks to her and her team.
You just contradicted yourself
 
The product is still what the customers buys. Ads don't make the customer the product.

Yes, thankfully.

Really? What is exactly the reason Evans is leaving? Do you know? Gd forbid, does she have cancer and want to spend the remaining time with her family? Was leaving at this time the plan all along? Evans is leaving, ergo, the company is ****ed up, doesn't track.

Really? You are a 100% sure of that with proof I suppose.

You believe the magic is dead, ergo anything you say about the company revolves around that. Others think differently.
There’s plenty of evidence presented in ‘After Steve’ that points to exactly the conclusion I have surmised here. Combined with my life experience of working in a similar situation, it’s not all that hard to reach that conclusion. I sure hope Evans’ health is not the reason here, but sure - let’s go with that instead of the obvious.

Seems odd to say “maybe it’s health” when the article points to a planned 6 month transition.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
There’s plenty of evidence presented in ‘After Steve’ that points to exactly the conclusion I have surmised here. Combined with my life experience of working in a similar situation, it’s not all that hard to reach that conclusion. I sure hope Evans’ health is not the reason here, but sure - let’s go with that instead of the obvious.

Seems odd to say “maybe it’s health” when the article points to a planned 6 month transition.
We could speculate as much as possible, but we won't know exactly what went down unless someone spills the beans.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UMHurricanes34
I totally understand, though I'm more of a "Have it and not need it" kind of guy. If you don't need it, don't use it. If you do, fine. I agree on the smaller GUI elements. My fingers are to big and clumsy for that kind of stuff. However, some things like moving around clips in iMovie and GarageBand might be fine. Whatever floats your boat. I just don't see mouse vs touch being a totally mutually-exclusive kind of thing.
I agree with that to some extent, although I'm personally less optimistic about touch/mouse not being largely mutually exclusive. While some specific interactions like those Apple tried to implement in the Touch Bar (scrubbing through things, dragging a scale, and other larger action buttons) would be very useful, most other interactions would need some fundamental rethink of how to structure the interactions and interface to optimize for one or the other. For example, macOS is too cramped for touch but offers a lot more precision as you mentioned, while iPadOS forgoes a lot of screen real-estate and precision to accommodate touch interactions. Having used touch-based Windows machines as well, Windows 8 offered the closest to marrying the two but ultimately was not very good at either, and 10/11 just went back to a mouse-first interface. There might be better solutions (a large iOS-like interface/trackpad hybrid to replace the trackpad/wrist rest area on MacBooks perhaps?) but the kind of GUIs that we have had so far were only really good at one or the other in my opnion.
 
Do you not know what a rounded object looks like? You apparently don’t know the definitions and the differences between them and geometric shapes.

This was my point to you, in this post right here, you can't have it. I even used the word "rounded" when I showed you a rounded object, the Apple USB "puck" mouse, that was a flop. You used the word "circle" to describe it, not me. So I clearly know what they look like. Come on lil buddy, come up with your own replies instead of recycling mine.

The iPhone is square.
LOL.jpg

The iPhone is not square. Use your eyes. It is oblong, and it even has... rounded corners. Clutching your pearls yet?

Ever hear of a square jaw?

"Square jaw" lol. You're grasping, dude. Keep trying to change what you said. Next you'll say "square deal" or maybe "square meal" or "square toe boots" in an effort to tell me that's what you really meant. I'm sure you can find more. 😂🤣🤣
 
I agree with that to some extent, although I'm personally less optimistic about touch/mouse not being largely mutually exclusive. While some specific interactions like those Apple tried to implement in the Touch Bar (scrubbing through things, dragging a scale, and other larger action buttons) would be very useful, most other interactions would need some fundamental rethink of how to structure the interactions and interface to optimize for one or the other. For example, macOS is too cramped for touch but offers a lot more precision as you mentioned, while iPadOS forgoes a lot of screen real-estate and precision to accommodate touch interactions. Having used touch-based Windows machines as well, Windows 8 offered the closest to marrying the two but ultimately was not very good at either, and 10/11 just went back to a mouse-first interface. There might be better solutions (a large iOS-like interface/trackpad hybrid to replace the trackpad/wrist rest area on MacBooks perhaps?) but the kind of GUIs that we have had so far were only really good at one or the other in my opnion.
I would still like iMacs to have at least Apple Pencil support so that they can be used as graphics tablets. Maybe like in an iMac G4-style setup. Might be useful on MacBooks as well, but would have to redesign the hinge so that it can go into "tablet" mode. Not sure how much I'd like that, though. Mac minis, Mac Pros and other headless Macs could probably use iPads in Sidecar mode. Really wish that there was a way Sidecar could also combine the CPU/GPU power & resources of both the Mac & iPad as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: szw-mapple fan
This was my point to you, in this post right here, you can't have it. I even used the word "rounded" when I showed you a rounded object, the Apple USB "puck" mouse, that was a flop. You used the word "circle" to describe it, not me. So I clearly know what they look like. Come on lil buddy, come up with your own replies instead of recycling mine.


View attachment 2101039
The iPhone is not square. Use your eyes. It is oblong, and it even has... rounded corners. Clutching your pearls yet?



"Square jaw" lol. You're grasping, dude. Keep trying to change what you said. Next you'll say "square deal" or maybe "square meal" or "square toe boots" in an effort to tell me that's what you really meant. I'm sure you can find more. 😂🤣🤣
BAHAHAH you make laugh so hard. You try so hard to sound smart but don’t know the definitions of ‘Square’. I literally typed it in my last comment and YOU STILL don’t lmao.


Here’s one of the LITERAL definitions for you once again bub, and PLEASE GO LOOK IT UP for your own good!!!

Square:

adjective

1. Having the shape or approximate shape of a square.

• Having the shape or approximate shape of a cube.

• Having or in the form of two right angles: a suitable length of wood with square ends

• Having an outline resembling two corners of a square: his square jaw

• Broad and solid in shape


There you go buddy, I taught you square today. Enjoy. And I’m terribly sorry you can’t take being dead-wrong. Enjoy that.
 
And the customers and employees can pound sand?
I don’t understand your comment. No one could replace Steve Jobs yet Tim Cook has made Apple into a ~2.4T company by pleasing it’s customers and shareholders. As for Apples’s employees most take pride in working for Apple.
 
I don’t understand your comment. No one could replace Steve Jobs yet Tim Cook has made Apple into a ~2.4T company by pleasing it’s customers and shareholders. As for Apples’s employees most take pride in working for Apple.
Buddy Tim Cook was already onboard a train that wasn’t going to stop….

It would have been VERY DIFFICULT for him to stop Apple from becoming that valuable even if he actively tried to sabotage it.

In other words Tim has done little-to-nothing of importance. Most of his moves have been very bad actually. Like buying Beats for billions when they could’ve made their own streaming platform insanely easily.

They should’ve bought gaming studios and movie studios, which are actually valuable, with valuable hires.

He’s approved innumerable unbelievably stupid ideas like ‘Peek and Pop’. And iOS 16’s Notifications changes and Dynamic Island distractions.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: SFjohn
BAHAHAH you make laugh so hard. You try so hard to sound smart but don’t know the definitions of ‘Square’. I literally typed it in my last comment and YOU STILL don’t lmao.


Here’s one of the LITERAL definitions for you once again bub, and PLEASE GO LOOK IT UP for your own good!!!

Square:

adjective

1. Having the shape or approximate shape of a square.

• Having the shape or approximate shape of a cube.

• Having or in the form of two right angles: a suitable length of wood with square ends

• Having an outline resembling two corners of a square: his square jaw

• Broad and solid in shape


There you go buddy, I taught you square today. Enjoy. And I’m terribly sorry you can’t take being dead-wrong. Enjoy that.

Glad to know I "make laugh so hard" or whatever.

Wow, went all the way to encyclopedia.com for that, didja? Just so you could copy only the adjective definition, while ignoring the noun, verb, adverb, etc. You had to scroll down the list for that, as seen here. Clearly your source agrees with me - yours is not the primary usage of the term, that's only what I've been saying all along. See illustration here.

While you go read up on the most basic concepts, I'm gonna click the little "ignore" button on you, since I get easily bored when someone's beating the wrong dead horse. Plus the MR forums have enough toxicity without having to see more. It's kind of how you approach a lot of discussions here, I can see.

Hope you keep laugh so hard! 😘
 
I don’t understand your comment. No one could replace Steve Jobs yet Tim Cook has made Apple into a ~2.4T company by pleasing it’s customers and shareholders. As for Apples’s employees most take pride in working for Apple.
My point was that management and stockholders are not the only communities that have a stake in Apple. This idea that there is a 'fudiciary' obligation to maximise stock price and dividends is fabricated. There is no law requiring that, just a corporate structure that favours elites over everybody else. A great deal of damage has been done by the idea (e.g., stock buy-backs to raise the price of stock rather than investment in R&D).
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: SFjohn
My point was that management and stockholders are not the only communities that have a stake in Apple. This idea that there is a 'fudiciary' obligation to maximise stock price and dividends is fabricated. There is no law requiring that, just a corporate structure that favours elites over everybody else. A great deal of damage has been done by the idea (e.g., stock buy-backs to raise the price of stock rather than investment in R&D).
You really don’t understand the many laws corporations must function under. Corporations have a legal fiduciary duty to create profit every quarter For their shareholders above all else.

 
You really don’t understand the many laws corporations must function under. Corporations have a legal fiduciary duty to create profit every quarter For their shareholders above all else.

Oh yeah? Show me the laws that require this. So far as I am aware, they do not exist, and never have. The concept that corporations are legally required to maximise profits is an urban myth. Quite apart from anything, it is impossible to determine whether a corporation has maximised profits, so it is something that could never be resolved.

What does exist is a power structure that puts the interests of stockholders and the managerial class above all others, and it is destroying our society. This could be rectified simply by requiring employee and consumer representation on corporate executive boards.
 
  • Like
Reactions: belvdr
[…].

What does exist is a power structure that puts the interests of stockholders and the managerial class above all others,
Yes that is the point. People who own stocks have a vested stake in the company.
and it is destroying our society.
Not going to go down this rabbit hole.
This could be rectified simply by requiring employee and consumer representation on corporate executive boards.
Anything run by large committees goes nowhere. If you don’t want to participate with a company then don’t. Simple.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SFjohn
Oh yeah? Show me the laws that require this. So far as I am aware, they do not exist, and never have. The concept that corporations are legally required to maximise profits is an urban myth. Quite apart from anything, it is impossible to determine whether a corporation has maximised profits, so it is something that could never be resolved.

What does exist is a power structure that puts the interests of stockholders and the managerial class above all others, and it is destroying our society. This could be rectified simply by requiring employee and consumer representation on corporate executive boards.
You and I agree that corporations are a huge problem and there is no one law that demands that corporations operate as profit machines.

There and tens of thousands of laws that indirectly create that, plus a few US Supreme Court decisions, for example: 1) Corporations are actual people, 2) Money = Free Speech.

So, what corporations have you worked for where quarterly profits were unimportant? By all means do name them. (non-profits don’t count) How many corporate boards have you been on?

My guess is you have not spent your life working in Fortune 500 companies and you’ve just googled to get your talking point.

Corporations as legal entities are currently doing easily as much harm as they are doing good, but there is no easy fix aside from changes to the US Constitution.
 
Yes that is the point. People who own stocks have a vested stake in the company.

Not going to go down this rabbit hole.

Anything run by large committees goes nowhere. If you don’t want to participate with a company then don’t. Simple.
So.. the people who work at a company don't have s much vested interested as people who click a button to invest money (or have accountants do it for them)? And do the customers that buy a company's products have no vested interest? Come on.

Finally, one can increase the representation of workers consumers (and the environment for that matter) without expanding board size. It just means less opportunity for cronyism and nepotism.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: SFjohn
You and I agree that corporations are a huge problem and there is no one law that demands that corporations operate as profit machines.

There and tens of thousands of laws that indirectly create that, plus a few US Supreme Court decisions, for example: 1) Corporations are actual people, 2) Money = Free Speech.

So, what corporations have you worked for where quarterly profits were unimportant? By all means do name them. (non-profits don’t count) How many corporate boards have you been on?

My guess is you have not spent your life working in Fortune 500 companies and you’ve just googled to get your talking point.

Corporations as legal entities are currently doing easily as much harm as they are doing good, but there is no easy fix aside from changes to the US Constitution.
So you agree there is no law to maximise profits, which is the point I was making. "Fiduciary" responsibilities are about making informed, unbiased decisions that benefit the corporation in general, not just the stockholders. Because those in power insist on using profits, dividends and stock buy-backs as indices of corporate health, the system is locked into short-termism that guarantees wealth and power inequality. There are other metrics of corporate health that should be considered: consumer satisfaction with services and products, worker safety and satisfaction, environmental impact, compliance with the law, and, yes, social justice. Otherwise, commercial interests in our society work toward short-term profits, fail to invest in R&D, corporate infrastructure and staff development, negatively impact workers' health and well-being, increase social inequalities, and damage the environment. Just what we need - major organisations working against the quality of life in our society...

The only fix that is required is to rid ourselves of the urban myth to maximise corporate profits/dividends/buy-backs at the expense of all other indicators of corporate health. Indeed some states are flirting with passing laws that allow companies to state explicitly how they measure their corporate health, with options not to include maximising profits as the sole yardstick. Anyway, I've said my piece.

(FWIW I work at a University in the UK but am a US citizen. My university is over 600 years old. That longevity is a true measure of organisational health, for most businesses fail within 10 years, and my university's success has been achieved without profit, dividends, or stocks. Perhaps instead of foisting paleolithic corporate models on universities, we should encourage corporations to adopt the collegial model - distributed power, goals that inspire staff and 'customers', promoting communities, using peer-review of performance, etc.).
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: Mac47 and SFjohn
So.. the people who work at a company don't have s much vested interested as people who click a button to invest money (or have accountants do it for them)?
The people who work for a company are not the owners. They may have a vested interest as much as a career, and being fulfilled and doing a good job and reaping the reward for being a long term employee. There are different levels of "having a vested interest".
And do the customers that buy a company's products have no vested interest? Come on.
The types of vested interest an individual has to a company is relative to their relationship. Journalists have a vested interested in the companies they report on. But so what?
Finally, one can increase the representation of workers consumers (and the environment for that matter) without expanding board size. It just means less opportunity for cronyism and nepotism.
If you want to control a company, you need skin in the game. Either a managerial position, or a board director or some stock ownership. In no reality does a worker in a fortune 500 company get to call the shots above managers and/or the board.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mac47 and SFjohn
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.