Apple Antenna Engineer and Carrier Partner Expressed Early Concern Over iPhone 4 Design

[macgeof]

Yes I did. The report says 2) The effect of the grips on the iPhone 3G is much smaller. But, the Full-Grip still reduces the data rate on upload..

That screen shot I posted is with my fingers lightly gripping the phone and bridging the aerials. I never had these issues with my 3G.

I think the image you displayed does not cause me any surprise. You have one bar of GPRS signal and have <10k speed. Now if you tell me that this happened on a place where you had decent 3G reception and then 'death-gripped' which caused reception to drop to one bar GPRS then I agree with you. I too own an iPhone and where I live is an O2 indoor dead zone for 3G so I get your speeds - but being where I live I am on my own WiFi indoors. Outdoors I get a couple of bars 3G and speeds are fine - unless I actually try to see that I can kill my signal. In which case, yes I do drop down to GPRS.

I hope like many others that Apple come clean and have a good solution for us sufferers - I have dropped calls indoors due to the reception - but I don't expect anything like a recall. For me, I think the answer is to be aware of where I am in low signal areas on how I hold my phone in use and also to use a case. After owning an iPhone 3G for 2 years I am a little disappointed that this new iPhone does something worse than my previous one. That said the rest of the things it does it blows the previous one aside, and I will keep it rather than return it. If the reception issue bothers/affects you (or others) more than this I suggest that you return it - either for an exchange or a to buy a different phone.

 

[derek1984]

I really think there is going to be a recall.

Apple is going to prevent the cut from bleeding even more.

 

[ScooterLibby]

There seems to be many levels of concern for apple to address. I forsee Apple having a 3-fold approach to this problem.
1. Sending out bumpers to those who want them.
2. Offering a long and difficult process of exchanging the phone for an upgraded model
3. Offering a thank you to those who don't care about the phone's issues.

I'd take up option 2. I've already experienced a bit of frustration trying to get this resolved and would be willing to experience some more to get revised model. For me, a case did not solve the issue and my dropped calls are still more frequent than when I had the 3G.

 

[jweinraub]

How do I fix it ?

Wait for tomorrow and then fill out the inevitable form for a free bumper. Remember, Nintendo did the right thing with the Wii(motes) issue. You filled a form out, it asked you how many you wanted [1-4] and it shipped it free of charge.

Apple here needs to do the right thing and admit fault. A total recall may not be necessary, depending on the extent of the problem. If some sort of coating that will provide enough insulation to prevent the issue, but still work as a transceiver properly - it can perhaps be done by genius bar, or worst case scenario, to send it in, and it comes back coated properly. I just hope they don't flash it with 4.x.x or send a new one back that isn't mine.

While I did buy a bumper, it does indeed work as "intended" 90% of the time. Perhaps the software glitch is true to some extent, as I do get some signal degradation, even with the bumper. So with true physical insulation of plastic, and if it still happens, then I am not sure how good a coating can be.

Tomorrow should be interesting.

 

[Poll Smoker]

So Apple are holding a press conference on Friday? Let's hope they don't hold it wrong.

Do you really think you're the first person to post that?

 

[Rodimus Prime]

SOMEONE overruled their engineers. Is this like the Challenger launch where the seat warming management overruled the actual engineers?

I think that with the recent issues that Apple has been having (iPad WI-FI, iPhone 4, etc) that someone has taken their eyes off the past of Apple and potentially the quality of the engineering and potentially components are slipping.

Apple has proven to be their own worst enemy in the past. Maybe the obsession to out do Google and the 'droid's has effected Steve... His efforts to make 'the next thing' that rules the world got out of hand?

Let's wait and see what is said, and not said, tomorrow...

There is more to Challenger than just the management over ruling engineers. It is a now used as a teaching tool in statics class when explaining about outliers which you throw out of statical analyzes because they screw up the results. Some O-Rings come losses on almost every launch problem is when they were looking at it they threw out all the one that had zero O-Rings came loose.
Well when they look at the bell curve formed by how many O-Rings that come loose per launch compared to temp there seem to be no correlation. Now if you put back in the ones that had zero come loose then the correlation becomes REALLY clear. Warm it is at the launch site the fewer that come loose.
I really simplified it there but it gives you an idea. The Management really screwed up because they did over rule the engineers. Just another mistake was being made in presenting the information.

But that is a side topic.

As for the originally topic who is really surprised that Apple choose form over function yet again. Apple would rather something look pretty than work correctly.

 

[macduke]

Apple did not do a recall for:
-easy to scratch iPods

............

they handled those through Apple Care

Actually, that one was mainly handled through a class action lawsuit where they had to pay out. Actually, the situation looks eerily familiar to today's with talk of cases, coatings and legal action.

http://www.macworld.com/article/138424/2009/01/ipodnano_settlement.html

 

[ajnicho]

Wait for tomorrow and then fill out the inevitable form for a free bumper. Remember, Nintendo did the right thing with the Wii(motes) issue. You filled a form out, it asked you how many you wanted [1-4] and it shipped it free of charge.

Apple here needs to do the right thing and admit fault. A total recall may not be necessary, depending on the extent of the problem. If some sort of coating that will provide enough insulation to prevent the issue, but still work as a transceiver properly - it can perhaps be done by genius bar, or worst case scenario, to send it in, and it comes back coated properly. I just hope they don't flash it with 4.x.x or send a new one back that isn't mine.

While I did buy a bumper, it does indeed work as "intended" 90% of the time. Perhaps the software glitch is true to some extent, as I do get some signal degradation, even with the bumper. So with true physical insulation of plastic, and if it still happens, then I am not sure how good a coating can be.

Tomorrow should be interesting.

Exactly my point - it's not 100% fixable by the user as irrational stated.

Seriously - i dont get why there is all this in-fighting. Some people have a problem, some dont. Apple still need to rectify it. It doesnt help by telling me to just take it back if not happy. I've spent a lot of money in the appstore to just walk away

 

[wneill]

Is Jonathan Ives a contemporary Frank Lloyd Wright? (not a good thing)

No...the product should have never been released. Telling people who have an issue they need to use a bumper to solve the problem is not a fix. I don't understand why everyone thinks a "bumper" is an acceptable fix. You can't dictate how to use the iPhone, specially to all the users who don't like bumpers, cases, etc.

There seem to be quite a few people like this who don't want to use bumpers or a case with their iPhones. That's fair enough. Personally, I like to put devices like this in cases, but everyone has their own preferences. There's no disputing tastes.

What I find kind of strange is that people who have strong preferences for avoiding cases and bumpers have such a hard time accepting that this particular phone has a design flaw (a big flaw for those with anti-case preferences) and that it probably isn't the right phone for them. Why do people get angry when faced with this reality or exhibit some sort of righteous indignation that Apple is wronging them personally in some way? Is it another example of too much Apple worship? People need to get a sense of perspective. Apple has never made a perfect product. For the most part, they have just made really great ones (in a field where the average products were pretty bad for a long time).

If you don't like bumpers and cases, then face the fact that Apple might have let you down this time. But give up the delusion that Apple is dictating to you how you should make phone calls. They've just produced a phone that doesn't work well for you. So keep the phone you've already got, get one from another manufacturer, or return the iPhone 4 if you've bought one already. But don't pretend that bumpers (especially free ones) aren't a perfectly acceptable fix for a ton of people that need some sort of fix (many don't).

To me, the real question here is whether Jonathan Ives has developed way too much power at Apple (with the assistance of Steve Jobs). The form over function mentality at the company has gotten way out of hand. Ironically, this is probably the same mentality that drives people who refuse to use bumpers and cases. In the latter case, it's no big deal because it's simply a matter of your own life choices. But in the case of Apple, the company's products are really suffering because of nutty aesthetic theories being given way too much weight in product design. Ives has become like a contemporary Frank Lloyd Wright, producing the equivalent of Wright's leaky houses. (I'm just using Wright as an example. Most name architects these days produce monstrosities that don't function well as buildings but serve simply as works of art reflecting their creators' egos).

I wonder if this public relations nightmare will be the catalyst that results in Ives being reigned in a little bit at Apple? If so, he may very well leave the company since there is a good chance that like most people in design professions he has a huge and fragile ego. Regardless, someone at Apple needs to give Ives a dose of reality and tell him to pay more attention to the concerns of those who actually make the products function.

Warren

 

[tigres]

Apple better not pull a Nixon.

To Steve:

Fess up, man up, admit the error- and give a solution.
Don't lie, be straight and show your followers your human.

Do the above, and they will come.

**Lie, and they will never forget.

 

[The Wedge]

No...the product should have never been released. Telling people who have an issue they need to use a bumper to solve the problem is not a fix. I don't understand why everyone thinks a "bumper" is an acceptable fix. You can't dictate how to use the iPhone, specially to all the users who don't like bumpers, cases, etc.

I've used a case with all my phones. I now have a bumper on mine, but it still annoys me that I HAVE to use it.

 

[derek4484]

Magical

Who needs specialized engineers?? The iPhone4 is magical, it will overcome any flaw with pixie dust.

 

[rfahey]

I share your experience. Have the iPhone4 since launch day, better reception than my previous phone (Sony-Ericsson P910i), and still "waiting" for the 1st dropped call...

I find it funny that people tend to blame "THEIR" device when a call drops.

I called my wife over the weekend while she was out with friends and had 2 dropped calls. She was out in the sticks where there is little to no reception. I wonder how many of you in a similar situation would say "IT'S MY IPHONE 4 DROPPING CALLS, NO WAY IT COULD BE THE OTHER CALLER!!"

 

[fifthworld]

If out of this mess Apple will learn not let design alone dictate function, I'll be happy. Meantime I'll keep my 3GS, pass on the iPh4 and hope in the next one.

 

[DotCom2]

How is this press conference going to be handled?
Is it going to be on TV? Blogged?
How do we get the info live? Or do we?

 

[derek4484]

ouch. If this is true it could be Apple's biggest blunder yet. Always listen to the engineers......especially when you're still early in the design phase............

Unfortunately with product design and development, the marketing department always wins out over the engineering department.

 

[nfrs2000]

No surprise.

This happens when executives (especially those with no engineering background and who have volatile tempers and are known to fire people on a whim) make critical design decisions.

Sometimes it works out, sometimes not.

The bigger question to me is, why aren't the cell carriers catching this stuff better? For example, Verizon is infamous for holding back devices until their test group is satisfied.

This is at least twice that AT&T's staff have allowed a major mistake that should've been caught. Remember the first 3G version, which had a WCDMA power control problem that would bring down cells?

Edit: In this case, supposedly a carrier DID notice, but still sold the phone.

Another person blaiming ATT. What about every other carrier around the world that didnt see the same thing?

 

[tivoboy]

fired?

Was this guy subsequently fired? Is that why they were trying to hire so many RF engineers?

 

[PeterQVenkman]

So if Honda released a new model of car and within 3 months and only 1,000 sales they realized that one of their parts suppliers had provided defective tie rods that could fail under certain conditions they shouldn't bother with a recall because the car hasn't been out very long and hasn't sold very many? They should instead wait a few years and wait for actual accidents and deaths to occur?

Yes, it happens all the time. Look at Toyota. The simple answer is money. I'm reminded of a funny (but dark) quote from fight club:

Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X.

If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?

Narrator: You wouldn't believe.

Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?

Narrator: A major one.

We are all part of the same compost heap.

 

[jamesnajera]

Damn, IF this is true!

Apple should have put the seam for the GSM/UMTS on the bottom of the phone by bottom speaker. It would have complemented the wifi seam at the top of the phone and made it more difficult to touch. Positioning it like that plus a non conductive coat (on at least one of the antennas) probably would have taken care of the issue. Even better would have been rearranging the two antennas and putting some type of plastic coat over the wifi antenna.

IF this is the situation, I now truly believe this phone should be recalled. I do not want a free bumper, or store credit. Currently I have been using this phone with a bumper (that I paid for) because I wanted to give Apple some benefit of the doubt, but I hate the bumper (or any case on any of my cell phones), it takes away from the look and solid feel of this phone. Do you really think Steve made the phone like this to just cover it with a piece of plastic, I personally feel that if Steve is using a bumper right now, he hates having it on the phone.

I hope for the best on Friday.

I also wonder who the carrier is?

 

[derek4484]

So Jobs knew? Doesn't surprise me.

Of course Jobs knew. Why in the heck do you think Apple had bumper cases ready at release. And it just so happens that the bumper case only covers the metal antenna, unlike any other case out there. If you didnt already believe that jobs knew about the defective design and released it anyways you're obviously a brain dead moron or just a total apple fanboy.

 

[MrSmith]

I am so happy that my world is full every antenna issue news I can possibly be feed to.

Less time thinking about Apple - more time concentrating in class?

 

[juan370Z]

Money? Throw them a plastic bumper that costs $5 to make, package and ship and most of them will be happy as a drunk dog.

you are very very mistaken. i lived in china and i know for a fact those bumpers cost less than 50 cents to make is just plastic. the price does increase maybe in the freight but i belive is still less than a dollar for the little things. in that case apple is been way to arrogant selling them at 30 dollars. I refuse to buy them no matter what even if it fixes the problem.

 

[rsocal]

I love the design and it works great for a lot of people and I know this is just a bunch of people with mob mentality! I can't believe nobody will just take it back if they feel as passionate as some of these posts, you would be a complete IDIOT not to take it back! Mine as well as a few of my friends work absolutely great, even in bad signal areas if I put my finger on the "sweet spot" and get it to drop 1-2 bars no dropped calls or data, then with strong signals I can't get it to drop even one!!! Give Apple a chance and I hope they leave the phone the way its is, it's awesome! BTW I don't use a case, still works great!!!

 

[ChazUK]

Sorry that my actual, real-world experience (and that of the entire Engadget staff, and other online reviewers, and countless others on this forum) is harshing your hater mellow.

You do realise that Nilay Patel of Engadget has been having issues with his iPhone 4 don't you?

http://twitter.com/reckless/status/17250194835
http://twitter.com/reckless/status/17276748921
http://twitter.com/reckless/status/17285399675
http://twitter.com/reckless/status/17276981774

This is the article you are referencing no?

"I've definitely dropped a number of calls and experienced slow data rates when holding the phone with the antennas bridged." - Nilay Patel

"I use an AT&T 3G MicroCell in my home, and when I'm connected to that, I'm unable to drop a call or observe any drop in bars no matter how hard I grip the antenna gap. When I'm elsewhere in the city, it's a different story -- gripping the phone the 'wrong' way regularly drops me anywhere from three to five (all) bars, occasionally drops a call (or prevents me from making one to begin with) and tends to drop me from 3G to EDGE or GPRS" - Chris Ziegler

"Well, what can I say. My heart died a little when the team asked me to verify this 'feature' on my then-spanking new iPhone 4, not to mention that I was still recovering from our all-nighter on Regent Street. Three weeks onwards, I can still replicate the signal drop in certain areas in London." - Richard Lai

I'll stop there but ask why you decided to omit those quotes? Not hatin', just curious.