Apple Appears to Have Acquired GPS Firm Coherent Navigation [Confirmed]

[avanpelt]

Thank goodness! If you had used the notoriously inaccurate Apple Maps, you undoubtedly would have walked right off the side of your ship and fallen into the ocean.

Not sure why you felt the need to make a sarcastic comment. I was simply trying to help the guy out. If Apple Maps ever allows us to save maps for offline use, he will be able to use that, as well.

 

[freediverx]

I've seen some big advances in the Maps on my phone.. I still keep Google Maps as a backup.. But its definitely getting better..
My only disappointment is the search.. Some things aren't their.. or lets say I search for iHop.. Well if an iHop is 2 minutes away.. it only shows that iHop. It doesn't allow me to zoom out and see all iHop locations so that I can choose which one I want to go to.. And thats what sucks

Are we using the same app? I just went into the iOS Maps app and searched for iHop. The map shows me the nearest location, in addition to any others in the currently visible map area. If you want to see more, just zoom out and redo the search. Right now I'm looking at nine iHops on my map.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Oh! Never knew there were any issues with location. I use Google Maps for navigation and never had any issues.

...which is funny because the Google Map app will leverage the exact same chip within the iDevice.

As you said, spinning this as if it will improve Maps is missing the point of the data itself being poor. If Maps can get us to the wrong location "within centimeters" vs. a few feet as it does now, it's still the wrong location. I don't need to be taken to a more accurate point when it's the WRONG location. What I'd like to see is that Apple is acquiring a source of much better location(s) data and/or talent that is proven capable of rapidly replacing poor (location) data with better data.

I continue to wonder why Apple isn't devising some kind of querying system that will plot (at least popularly-searched locations) per Apple's database against where Google and other mapping options thinks that same location is. When the results are mostly in harmony, flag that as good data in the Apple Maps database. Where the maps differ, either:
A. adjust the Apple data to go more with the mainstream (multiple sourced) location OR
B. show where other mapping services think it is along with where Apple thinks it is.

I could really only imagine Apple doing A (if that), but that does seem to be a systematic way to fix data weaknesses quickly (at the speed of computer processing).

And APP developers: I for one would gladly pay pretty well for a mapping app that would plot points from multiple mapping (data) sources on the same map (Apple Maps thinks it's here, Google thinks it's here, Garmin thinks it's here, etc). I imagine this would make it much easier to recognize the times when Apple's plot will probably take me to the wrong place as well as the times when Apple's plot is likely right.

 

[freediverx]

Yes, but the GPS chip itself is unstable in NYC. It would CONSTANTLY lose reception and freeze up at times to the point of worthlessness (No, I don't like cycling around the Manhattan bridge because the stupid GPS has no clue where I am and I'm listening to it).

Location services are always an issue in concrete canyons like Manhattan. This has nothing to do with Apple. Without line of sight to a few GPS satellites, your iPhone must rely solely on triangulation of known cell towers and wifi networks. I would think a good fix for this might be installing a crapload of iBeacons throughout the city.

----------

You might be on to something. A self-driving car would need super accurate gps to navigate safely. This company claims that their gps is accurate to the nearest centimeters?!?

On the other hand, with all of these map related acquisitions, Map will be so cool in the future. People are complaining about Apple Map now (I always find it very good for my navigations) and don't look to the future and just simply discard map. I call that short sighted.

Somewhat related...

How Uber’s Autonomous Cars Will Destroy 10 Million Jobs and Reshape the Economy by 2025

http://zackkanter.com/2015/01/23/how-ubers-autonomous-cars-will-destroy-10-million-jobs-by-2025/

 

[weave]

I predict Apple Maps will totally blow away Google Maps after after the June 10th WWDC announcements. They have been working on this release for about 3 years and have purchased the following companies:

... snip ....

Apple *should* have bought Waze when it had a chance. I have a feeling Google bought Waze just to keep it out of Apple's hands.

 

[freeskier93]

No, selective availability has been turned off since 2000, at least in the US:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_analysis_for_the_Global_Positioning_System#Selective_availability

Differential GPS services (like WAAS) can be used to improve the accuracy of the position, but only if available at your location.

In the absence of DGPS, you can still get accuracy down to centimeters, but not in real time. Surveyors, fault line monitors, etc. get more precise measurements by collecting data over a long period of time -- allowing convergence to a smaller positional error.

There are still two codes sent out on the L1 frequency, the military's encrypted, and more accurate, P(Y) code and the civilian use C/A code.

Selective availability introduced errors of up to 100 meters, that was disabled. The current C/A code has accuracy of around 10 meters, the addition of augmentation systems like WAAS greatly increase the accuracy.

 

[PJWilkin]

I wonder if Apple knows that it is the data within the maps that is woefully inadequate?

Apple maps is unusable in the Caribbean and the Middle East.

Apple Maps is useless in the Caribbean, just pick an island, the Map view has very few roads (if any)

 

[Lepton]

For me, the problem has never been the maps or the routing, but the search and points of interest. When I search, it often seems just as likely to find something three states over instead of the nearest match, in the next town. Google never misses. Also, many POI around here are missing, or off by a block. Google has almost all businesses around here. That's what has always needed improving.

 

[PJWilkin]

I predict Apple Maps will totally blow away Google Maps after after the June 10th WWDC announcements.

I predict it will still be totally US Centric, and be a very poor shadow of Nokia Maps and Google Maps outside of the US of A

 

[nostaws]

If this guy is hiking the backcountry with his phone. He's probably not using Apple or Google Maps. There are a variety of apps that integrate topographical maps, and work when not online. Improved GPS is always helpful when your safety depends on it while, hiking, camping, etc.

Google Maps's offline maps feature would likely be helpful for you. Just select the area of the map you want to save locally on your phone while you have Wi-Fi or cell service.

I primarily use GPS in the backcountry where there is no cell service and online maps cannot be used. Any improvement in signal retention is helpful.

 

[Gooberton]

Yes, but the GPS chip itself is unstable in NYC. It would CONSTANTLY lose reception and freeze up at times to the point of worthlessness (No, I don't like cycling around the Manhattan bridge because the stupid GPS has no clue where I am and I'm listening to it).

Yep, in Manhattan Apple Gps is all
Over the map,it will be on but say I'm a few streets over from where I really am

----------

For me, the problem has never been the maps or the routing, but the search and points of interest. When I search, it often seems just as likely to find something three states over instead of the nearest match, in the next town. Google never misses. Also, many POI around here are missing, or off by a block. Google has almost all businesses around here. That's what has always needed improving.

Exactly! If I'm looking for Brewers ice cream two blocks away it says this trip require tolls, then I look it's 7 hours away it's telling me to go lol horrible

 

[joe-h2o]

But GPS satellites already have precision down to cms - the problem is that for civilian applications, the data is intentionally scrambled so it's only good to a few meters. I'm surprised the military didn't shut this down for bypassing the limitations that were intentionally put in place. If the military didn't care anymore, it seems they would just update the GPS satellite firmware to no longer scramble the info it sends to civilian devices.

Source: I used an Arduino GPS shield to help a robot I built navigate a town. The documentation for it said that since it was a civilian device, it was going to receive info that were randomly off by up to 3 meters.

The intentional fuzziness for civilian applications was stopped during the Clinton administration, but the sats that are already up there can't be updated. Any new GPS unit launched since then doesn't have this scrambling effect, but it's not as simple to update the older units.

The clocks on them are updated frequently due to relativistic effects, but there's limited scope to alter the other basic functions.

 

[clibinarius]

Location services are always an issue in concrete canyons like Manhattan. This has nothing to do with Apple. Without line of sight to a few GPS satellites, your iPhone must rely solely on triangulation of known cell towers and wifi networks. I would think a good fix for this might be installing a crapload of iBeacons throughout the city.

Apple doesn't make the chip, Qualcomm does. The chips are still insufficient. I didn't blame Apple. I said the current implementation is wanting, and it isn't just apple maps.

I'm not sure why you had to respond to my comment as if I needed an explanation over what the problem is. Perhaps you need to defend Apple from a legitimate criticism, that, the GPS used could be improved. Which was the point of Apple buying this company, no?

 

[MikhailT]

Yes, but the GPS chip itself is unstable in NYC. It would CONSTANTLY lose reception and freeze up at times to the point of worthlessness (No, I don't like cycling around the Manhattan bridge because the stupid GPS has no clue where I am and I'm listening to it).

That happens to majority of consumer level GPS units as well, the issue is due to the geography and the way the city is built on top of it. Manhattan is just a nightmare for any lower level GPS to handle.

You need high-powered GPS antennas to pick up the signals properly.

Based on what I can understand from the company, this purchase would not help in any ways. You still need to be able to pick up signals, it doesn't matter where the sats are, they're not the problem. It's from the bottom up that's the problem, not top down.

 

[Analog Kid]

I'm guessing Apple snapped up the talent from a failing company. I really doubt that Apple, or any one else, is going to add a satellite radio and pay for Iridium service for an incremental improvement in navigation. These guys certainly have GPS and radio expertise though.

The intentional fuzziness for civilian applications was stopped during the Clinton administration, but the sats that are already up there can't be updated. Any new GPS unit launched since then doesn't have this scrambling effect, but it's not as simple to update the older units.

The clocks on them are updated frequently due to relativistic effects, but there's limited scope to alter the other basic functions.

They have always been able to turn Selective Availability off, including on the existing satellites. SA introduces a 100m random error by messing with the clocks on the satellites. They turned it off when they realized they could just impose it for specific regions. To this day, the US uses that as a sign of pending aggression: if SA is on in your region, you better start making concessions before the troops land.

The relativistic corrections are handled by a frequency offset in the atomic clocks. There are periodic updates made to the ephemeris data though to reflect orbital corrections.

Centimeters are available to civilians with the right equipment and proper corrections services. The reason we don't have cm's in most consumer units is because most are single frequency and suffer from errors due to the unpredictability of the ionosphere and troposphere. Professional equipment tracks additional frequencies that can be used to cancel out those errors, and receive correction information from other receivers at known positions that are tracking satellite errors of other sorts.

The biggest problem though, hands down, is multi path. Trees, buildings, your head, all cause position errors. There's no way around that.

 

[chucker23n1]

I predict Apple Maps will totally blow away Google Maps after after the June 10th WWDC announcements.

Claim chowder, guys!

They have been working on this release for about 3 years and have purchased the following companies:

PlaceBase
Poly9
C3 Technologies
WiFiSlam
Locationary
HopStop
Embark
BroadMap

Read about these companies expertise and you will better understand Apple Maps. The Apple Maps platform already beats Google Map in several categories not to mention user interface and architecture.

If Apple bought Coherent, it is for their expertise in working with Iridium's network which allows communication globally when out of cellular range. You can buy an Iridium Go on Amazon for about $800 which will allow you to communicate globally with your cell phone.

Check it out here: https://youtu.be/hcrBE5hkuRU

The C3 purchase was long ago, and we already know what came of it: FlyOver. Which, frankly, is kind of neat to look at, but rarely available. And even when it is, it's nowhere near as useful as Street View.

As for stuff like HopStop and Embark, hopefully it'll lead to Apple Maps eventually supporting mass transit. But even when it does, I don't see how that'll "blow away Google Maps", who already support that.

Personally, Maps works fine for me as far as navigation goes. It's pretty bad for POI, especially compared to Google Maps. I'm fairly confident that'll improve over time, but I see them catching up at best, not getting way better than Google.

 

[citysnaps]

This is excellent news. I can see all sorts of applications, in both existing and new markets, for hyper-accurate location information.

As an aside, Apple Maps has improved tremendously over the last 2 years. Today it's my preferred mapping app. And it will continue to improve.

The future is looking good with respect to precision location and mapping.

 

[Lloydbm41]

But GPS satellites already have precision down to cms - the problem is that for civilian applications, the data is intentionally scrambled so it's only good to a few meters. I'm surprised the military didn't shut this down for bypassing the limitations that were intentionally put in place. If the military didn't care anymore, it seems they would just update the GPS satellite firmware to no longer scramble the info it sends to civilian devices.

Source: I used an Arduino GPS shield to help a robot I built navigate a town. The documentation for it said that since it was a civilian device, it was going to receive info that were randomly off by up to 3 meters.

This is correct. Civilian map data is only accurate to within 3 meters IF you only rely on the data from GPS satellites. This data is simply a starting point though and wouldn't prevent companies from using additional data from cell tower triangulation, beacon data, weather radar, civilian geosat data, or other companies mapping data to make hyper accurate GPS coordinates.

I predict Apple Maps will totally blow away Google Maps after after the June 10th WWDC announcements. They have been working on this release for about 3 years and have purchased the following companies:

You think that geolocation data is the only reason Google Maps is better than Apple Maps? It is only one facet.
But good luck with your prediction. I'm rooting for you.

 

[Karma*Police]

I predict it will still be totally US Centric, and be a very poor shadow of Nokia Maps and Google Maps outside of the US of A

1 out of every 5 people in the world would disagree. Apple maps already blows away google maps in China.

 

[chucker23n1]

This is correct.

No, it isn't, as the original poster has already said.

Civilian map data is only accurate to within 3 meters IF you only rely on the data from GPS satellites.

You can strike through the "civilian" part there. Military GPS temporarily has better error correction, that's all. There's no such thing as accuracy down to centimeters.

The accuracy of the GPS signal in space is actually the same for both the civilian GPS service (SPS) and the military GPS service (PPS). However, SPS broadcasts on one frequency, while PPS uses two. This means military users can perform ionospheric correction, a technique that reduces radio degradation caused by the Earth's atmosphere. With less degradation, PPS provides better accuracy than the basic SPS.

[..]

The ongoing GPS modernization program is adding new civilian signals and frequencies to the GPS satellites, enabling ionospheric correction for all users. Eventually, the accuracy difference between military and civilian GPS will disappear.

Scrambling hasn't taken place since 2000.

 

[2010mini]

...Apple maps is unusable in the Caribbean and the Middle East.

That interesting.... I used it in Jamaica last month and it worked fine.

 

[Karma*Police]

Claim chowder, guys!



The C3 purchase was long ago, and we already know what came of it: FlyOver. Which, frankly, is kind of neat to look at, but rarely available. And even when it is, it's nowhere near as useful as Street View.

As for stuff like HopStop and Embark, hopefully it'll lead to Apple Maps eventually supporting mass transit. But even when it does, I don't see how that'll "blow away Google Maps", who already support that.

Personally, Maps works fine for me as far as navigation goes. It's pretty bad for POI, especially compared to Google Maps. I'm fairly confident that'll improve over time, but I see them catching up at best, not getting way better than Google.

I tend to agree. In a couple of years, I see Apple maps and Google maps reaching feature parity as their data and tech matures. They'll one up each other here and there but not enough to make a huge difference IMO.

The only certainty is that iOS users will benefit and Google will lose as there will be no reason for iOS users and app developers to use Google maps.

That said, I'm excited to see what Apple has in store for maps at WWDC. Google maps is very spotty when it comes to mass transit so I suspect Apple's acquisition of HopStop and Embark will give them a big leg up in this regard.

 

[Tech198]

'Apple buys smaller technology companies from time to time, and we generally do not discuss our purpose or plans,” the company said.'

They may not, but MR does

We just the need of "not being as accurate as we like" is a big trade off ?

Just be thankful GPS's work as well as they do.. Do we really need our technology to say *exactly* where this place is, or within a few more cm closer just to have the freedom of "oh good, i no longer have to think anymore" ?

in a few years times, we'll all be mindless zombies walking around a graveyard looking for brains .

https://simpsonswiki.com/w/images/thumb/4/44/Zombies.png/250px-Zombies.png

 

[Lloydbm41]

No, it isn't, as the original poster has already said.

You can strike through the "civilian" part there. Military GPS temporarily has better error correction, that's all. There's no such thing as accuracy down to centimeters.

You can believe what you want when it comes to military satellites. Not gonna force the issue, but let's just say I was personally involved in this particular field for several years. Public information regarding what our govt can or can't do, may or may not be fact. But I'm glad you believe that we can't target something down to the centimeter.

----------

I tend to agree. In a couple of years, I see Apple maps and Google maps reaching feature parity as their data and tech matures. They'll one up each other here and there but not enough to make a huge difference IMO.

Possibly. Except in one crucial area; Street View. This is a very time consuming and costly thing, that Apple is years and years behind on.

 

[vsytherin]

Now if only Apple acquires Here Maps from Nokia, I would seriously consider jumping ship from using Google Maps to using Apple Maps.