Apple Applies For Automatic Shutdown and Piracy-Fighting Patents

[AidenShaw]

too much prior art for the shutdown patent....

What could possibly be novel or patentable about automatic shutdown? "Do X when Y" is so trivial a 10 year old could come up with it.

This has been available from various applications for a long time.

For example, here's a screenshot from a video encoder build from 2003:

 

[joefinan]

If you click on the patent number in the article, it takes you to a website. Is that website the real US Patent website?? They can't even spell:

"Assignee Name and Adress:"

 

[Eraserhead]

No. Both Stevie and Billy had a looksee at the marvellous work done at Xerox PARC.

No its well known MS were given Apples source code to develop Office, Sculley didn't set the conditions tight enough so legally MS were allowed to copy the source code, MS would actually have been stupid if they didn't .

 

[SiliconAddict]

If Apple adopts product activation I will go back to Windows. It is the SINGLE reason I purchased a Mac. If that difference goes away...frankly I have no issues using Windows itself.
Go ahead Apple. Try it. See what happens.

This has been available from various applications for a long time.

For example, here's a screenshot from a video encoder build from 2003:

Heck I've been doing this on Nero since 1999.

 

[esquire360]

ScenalyzerLive - was worth it....

How is auto shut down a patent?

Whacked

I liked Scenalyzer great program iMovie reminds me of it

 

[ChrisA]

This could be used to prevent all of Apple's software and Mac OS from running on non-Apple sold hardware. So the hackintosh's would be dead in the water. Sounds like a good thing for Apple. I've been curious to try OSX on my HP mini tower just to see it work, and software protection would lock that out.

No, this would not stop anyone who seriously wants to build a "hackintosh". One could do things like take before and after snapshots or run the system inside a virtual machine that is programed to watch for any overwrites of the software and log them. This method in the patent would only work for casual users who don't understand much about the insides of computers.

 

[DanB91]

im actually happy about this. maybe apple is planning to open OS X to different hardware.

yes many people here are against that but i am 1000% for it!!!!!
u have no idea how much i want this.

 

[alex69uk]

This shutdown patent is different

This has been available from various applications for a long time.

For example, here's a screenshot from a video encoder build from 2003:

Have the people saying that this is old or that it has been done for years actually read the patent?

This isn't a simple case of software running on a computer, then shutting it down when an operation is complete. This checks a PERIPHERAL device to make sure that it done what it is supposed to do - so this action isn't even happening on the main computer. The device, such as an iPhone or iPod finishes what it is doing, gets shut down automatically, then the computer is shut down automatically.

This is different enough to warrant its own patent application.

 

[0098386]

How bizarre, Apple emailed me when I bought my PowerBook wanting to do some kind of research interview or something. They rang up and I told them I'd like to see a feature that would shut down my computer when certain parameters were met. Such as downloading a file whilst also charging an iPod or sending a large email.

 

[kaiwai]

I don't. The only people they punish are those who legally buy and use the software. Do you think having to activate programs has stopped piracy on windows? There are a multitude of cracks available for just about every piece of software out there.

The end effect of activation measures is those who would normally pirate, find ways to continue doing so, and those who spend their hard earned money will be inconvenienced, annoyed and treated as if they're guilty of pirating.

True. In the end I think companies just need to accept that there will always be a section of society who will refuse to pay for software no matter how cheap, how generous the licence is or how great the software is. Oracle CEO Larry Ellison said they're not interested in going after pirates - they're no loss to them because ultimately if you wanted their software you'd also want all the services and support that goes with it. Those who pirate had no intention of purchasing it in the first place - thus they were profit neutral.

One way to counter; why not offer Mac OS X as a download to purchase? I mean, how many out there ordered their copy and downloaded a copy because you wanted it now? Sell it for $30 cheaper for download, and price he pirates out of the market.

 

[Porco]

I think it'd be great if Apple gets the DRM patent, because I think Fairplay + iTunes proves they would use them as little as possible.

On the other hand, I think it'd be horrific if Microsoft got a similar patent because Apple hadn't bothered.

The time to freak out is if Apple does evil things with the patents, not merely applying for them.

 

[AidenShaw]

Have the people saying that this is old or that it has been done for years actually read the patent?

This isn't a simple case of software running on a computer, then shutting it down when an operation is complete. This checks a PERIPHERAL device to make sure that it done what it is supposed to do - so this action isn't even happening on the main computer. The device, such as an iPhone or iPod finishes what it is doing, gets shut down automatically, then the computer is shut down automatically.

This is different enough to warrant its own patent application.

As a software engineer and architect with several patents granted and a handful pending, I fail to notice a great distinction between the two cases.

In case A (Nero, etc): A thread monitors the task activity, and when it's done it calls the OS shutdown API. In some cases, it might be a simple check in the application exit code to call the OS shutdown API instead of exiting.

In case B (the alleged IPod patent): A thread calls the OS USB APIs to monitor power drain on the USB power controller. When the drain reaches a threshold, the OS shutdown APIs are called. Perhaps the thread will communicate via some protocol with the second process, and there will be a positive acknowledgement that the task is done.​

I'm sorry if we disagree, but I wouldn't want to go to court and try to defend that case A and case B are fundamentally different. I'd rather persecute (oops, I mean prosecute) a 13 year old kid for having a website that annoys me.

... system permits an application owner to cause code to be injected into the application's run-time instruction stream ....

Later, during application run-time, code is injected that performs periodic checks are made to determine if the application continues to run on the previously authorized hardware platform. If a periodic check fails, at least part of the application's execution string is terminated--effectively rendering the application non-usable.

The periodic check is transparent to the user and difficult to circumvent.

OMFG, can you say "rootkit"?

Apple is trying to patent a rootkit that will rewrite applications on the fly to do things unrelated to what the application designer intended.

After the Sony debacle, software companies are scared ####less of using any hidden techniques.

I can't believe that Apple would dare to implement this....

 

[gwangung]

As a software engineer and architect with several patents granted and a handful pending, I fail to notice a great distinction between the two cases.

In case A (Nero, etc): A thread monitors the task activity, and when it's done it calls the OS shutdown API. In some cases, it might be a simple check in the application exit code to call the OS shutdown API instead of exiting.

In case B (the alleged IPod patent): A thread calls the OS USB APIs to monitor power drain on the USB power controller. When the drain reaches a threshold, the OS shutdown APIs are called. Perhaps the thread will communicate via some protocol with the second process, and there will be a positive acknowledgement that the task is done.​

I'm sorry if we disagree, but I wouldn't want to go to court and try to defend that case A and case B are fundamentally different. I'd rather persecute (oops, I mean prosecute) a 13 year old kid for having a website that annoys me.

Has state of the art law changed? It was emphasized to me (far too many years ago) that patents were granted based not necessarily on WHAT was done, but HOW it was done.

 

[twoodcc]

i think that the piracy part could be to stop from installing OS X on pcs

 

[72930]

i think that the piracy part could be to stop from installing OS X on pcs

Possibly delaying the time it takes for hackers to achieve this for a new OS from around 3 days before launch to 2 days...

 

[AidenShaw]

Has state of the art law changed?

No, but the lawyers have changed.

What should be, and what happens when a case goes to trial - are often quite different.

What I'm saying is not that "A" is right and "B" is wrong, but that I have no confidence that in the courtroom the "A" lawyers will win and the "B" lawyers will lose.

The right lawyer and the right expert witness will win, regardless of the facts or "justice" of the case.

i think that the piracy part could be to stop from installing OS X on pcs

You mean "non-Apple PCs", right?

There's virtually no hardware difference between an Apple and a Dell, except for the Apple DRM software that is there to make sure that OSX runs on only the limited configurations deemed "worthy" by the Gods in the Temple of Cupertino.

It seems that some of the Dell laptops are almost identical hardware to the Apple laptops, and "hacking" is really quite easy.

Fanbois must have trouble with that inconvenient truth....

 

[notjustjay]

I liked Scenalyzer great program iMovie reminds me of it

I know this is a bit off topic, but yeah, that program was brilliant. In an age where PC's were barely fast enough to keep up with capturing DV, here was a tiny, lightweight, fast program that did scene splitting, time-lapse capture, and so on. I had a PC that was not quite able to keep up with DV stream playback when using a big, memory hungry video editing program. This tiny utility did the trick, and I kept using it even years later. Possibly the BEST $30 I have EVER spent. Even now, on the Mac, I yearn for something similar... I do use iMovie for its ability to capture into small files per scene.

All goes to show, make a good program, charge a good price, and people will pay.

 

[Digitalclips]

Steve Jobs said that the way to combat internet piracy of music is to offer the music at a reasonable price.

I wonder why he doesn't employ that philosophy with his own software. hmmmmm

What are you kidding? Apple software is amazingly well priced! Both the home stuff and the Pro end. Heck an update to Media 100 used to cost thousands, now the entire FCPro suite is not much over a grand. iLife suite's price is beyond belief ...!

You mean "non-Apple PCs", right?

There's virtually no hardware difference between an Apple and a Dell, except for the Apple DRM software that is there to make sure that OSX runs on only the limited configurations deemed "worthy" by the Gods in the Temple of Cupertino.

It seems that some of the Dell laptops are almost identical hardware to the Apple laptops, and "hacking" is really quite easy.

Fanbois must have trouble with that inconvenient truth....

So ... are you suggesting you'd like to allow OS X to run on every PC out there and therefore see the end of Apple not long there after? Apple is a hardware company that just happens to also make the best OS and software. Take away hardware sales and you'd be saying goodbye to the best software company out there.

No. Both Stevie and Billy had a looksee at the marvellous work done at Xerox PARC.

I don't think Billy did actually, he was too busy with his IBM dealings. This is a good, reasonably balanced account of those turbulent times.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_43/b3905109_mz063.htm

 

[DanB91]

So ... are you suggesting you'd like to allow OS X to run on every PC out there and therefore see the end of Apple not long there after? Apple is a hardware company that just happens to also make the best OS and software. Take away hardware sales and you'd be saying goodbye to the best software company out there.

i had a long discussion on how apple could counter act this by not licensing OSX to other companies and have apple still make macs. Everyone refuted that point, but i still believe it could work

i really wanna see the reaction to this if/when it happens. im sure few people will be happy (like me) and many will be mad. and after a while everyone will love it. just like the intel transition


and also something to ponder on: the EULA states that OSX may only be run on an "apple branded computer", with nothing descrbing it. so technically i could take one of the apple stickers i have and put it on my pc and i wouldnt be braking the EULA. anyone think this is true?

 

[Digitalclips]

i had a long discussion on how apple could counter act this by not licensing OSX to other companies and have apple still make macs. Everyone refuted that point, but i still believe it could work

i really wanna see the reaction to this if/when it happens. im sure many people will be happy and many will be mad. and after a while everyone will love it. just like the intel transition

Well, so long as your plan helps my AAPL holding's value ...

 

[Bonte]

If Apple adopts product activation I will go back to Windows. It is the SINGLE reason I purchased a Mac. If that difference goes away...frankly I have no issues using Windows itself.
Go ahead Apple. Try it. See what happens.

Better get used to it, osX itself won't get this protection but iTunes DRM can lock all media and software both on Apple and Windows machines. Linux will be the only holdout until iTunes(-DRM) gets ported to the platform.

 

[thevofl]

What are you kidding? Apple software is amazingly well priced! Both the home stuff and the Pro end. Heck an update to Media 100 used to cost thousands, now the entire FCPro suite is not much over a grand. iLife suite's price is beyond belief ...!

The education pricing has skyrocketed (while the non-educational prices remained the same), while others have come down.

Logic went from 249 to 449 (10% off Full price)
OSX went from 69 (Tiger) to 116 (Leopard) (10% off Full price)
iLife and iWork went from 59 to 71 (10% off Full price)
Final Cut Express went from 149 to 179 and lost Soundtrack (10% off Full price)
Logic Express went from 149 to 179 (10% off Full price)

I have looked in educational sites and they reflect the increase in price.

Compare this to CS3. I just paid $519 for the Master Collection (http://www.collegesoftware.org).

I am scared to see what they are going to do with the next updates to Aperture, Shake, and especially Final Cut Studio. (10% off FCS $1299 is $1169).

I hardly think of FCS being over a grand to be a smoking deal. A full priced FCS costs as much as the MacBook it is on. iLife and iWork are well priced. OSX is too, but it is hard to say that the others are as well.

To give you perspective, I completed a course in Final Cut. I asked the class who has access to a legitimate copy of FCS away from the school (be it on their home Mac or on a friend's or . . . ) and I was the only one who had a legitimate copy. Three had bootlegs and two ask me to use my install discs so that they can have it too. (I said no.) An instructor overhearing the inquiry said that her class is primarily made up with students who use bootlegs.

Yes there are astronomically priced software out there, but come on! The software is unattainable for most; it turns it into an exclusive software.

 

[Mechcozmo]

The education pricing has skyrocketed (while the non-educational prices remained the same), while others have come down.

I can get a number of these pieces of software for cheaper at my university's bookstore. iWork was $39.99 before tax.

 

[Huby]

So ... are you suggesting you'd like to allow OS X to run on every PC out there and therefore see the end of Apple not long there after? Apple is a hardware company that just happens to also make the best OS and software. Take away hardware sales and you'd be saying goodbye to the best software company out there.

imho Apple is back as a big boy thanks to iPod sales (you're right: iPod = hardware ) and iTunes, not thanx to the sales of Mac hardware or the OS-X. It makes a great OS and good software since it went os-8, but that didn't make the company wind-eggs..
If time = not money 4 you, AND you're kinda geek, then you can try run OS-X on on a PC; but this's not an average joe option.

 

[xeex]

I think the only software that wasnt successfully cracked was Logic 7 with dongle uptil this day. Until Apple dropped dongle altogether with Logic Studio. Logic 7 was one tought nut to crack, other than that i dont know of any other software that wasnt pirated or cracked.
So, maybe thats what Apple wants to introduce some sort of internal dongle
built in into hardware that interlinks with software......
Time will tell what it is.