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Apple Argued Safari Is Three Different Browsers to Avoid Regulation

Again, a functioning US government would be slapping tarriff after tarriff and regulation on the EU until this horsecrap stopped.

Your failed continent’s inability to compete because of your crushing regulations does not give you carte blanche to punish companies that can compete.
 
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gpat said:
Chrome and Safari are already both Webkit.
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Not really. The last common ancestor was quite a while ago, and sites designed for Chromium regularly break on Safari. I agree that more people should use Firefox than Chrome, though.
 
eropko said:
Just ditch EU market, oversaturate neighbour countries and watch how they quickly take all their demands back after europeans had to gray import Apple for couple years.
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😂 Apple is not part of any critical infrastructure, they just manufacture lifestyle gadgets, and their devices has no more value to European countries than a Kylie Jenner Lipstick.

This would be actually a great move and open the mobile market to more competitors, you should become Apples #1 consultant.
 
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djphat2000 said:
This kind of speaks volumes in favor of Apple leaving the market in the EU. If no one is going to lose sleep over it. Then no need to sell any iPhones in the EU. Seems like everyone would win then. Apple can go kick rocks in flip flops. And peddle their phones in neighboring non-EU countries. Those that want it can get it via the black market or from overseas. I'm sure the market for it will be small. And the EU will not care.
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Except that Apple’s revenue would take quite a significant hit.
 
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chucker23n1 said:
Oh, those mental gymnastics I'd love to see explained. How does removing a market participant lead to more competition?
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Because it wouldn't be one for one. If one company leaves a market and there is a gap in the market then more than one company is going to spring up to fill that gap in the market and therefore consumers will have more choice.
 
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Apple's response is absurd. Of course Safari is one and the same across devices.
That being said, the effect of this will be more chromium marketshare leading to even more websites only coded specifically for chromium, leading to one giant rendering engine monopoly.
After destroying Internet Explorers' monopoly, who could have thought that the EU of all things would bring into being the next browser monopoly...
 
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klasma said:
That’s what many iOS apps already are, effectively.
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Which is why there are so many “bugs” every iOS release. Lazy companies using the lowest common denominator “platform” to throw their apps into the world. Then people complain that x or y is broken and when you really dig into the weeds it’s almost always that a company hasn’t adopted the proper APIs for Mac or iOS and the “wrapper” service they use relies on deprecated technologies.

The “heat gate” nonsense when it came to Instagram was exactly that.
 
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Cromulent said:
Because it wouldn't be one for one. If one company leaves a market and there is a gap in the market then more than one company is going to spring up to fill that gap in the market and therefore consumers will have more choice.
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But that isn't how computer markets have actually played out. The disappearance of Amiga, Atari, Sun, SGI, NeXT, RISC, and many others didn't suddenly lead to more choices. It just led to more dominance from Microsoft, to be eventually replaced by the Web.

Apple disappearing from the smartphone market (especially when it's just for one region) wouldn't suddenly cause other companies to pop back up.

Why not? Well, for starters, because software developers are paid to target as few platforms as possible. Nobody wants to make an app for three let alone more mobile platforms. So what this would actually do is just cement Android as the only game in town, and while it's ostensibly "open", this would give one vendor even more power.
 
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chucker23n1 said:
Oh, those mental gymnastics I'd love to see explained. How does removing a market participant lead to more competition?
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Simply because the European market would have one evil company less that misuses their market power to lock-in customers by building up anticompetitive hardware and software combination traps to maintain their customer base. Other companies would quickly fill the gap and competition could simply go on in a competitive way.
 
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GMShadow said:
Again, a functioning US government would be slapping tarriff after tarriff and regulation on the EU until this horsecrap stopped.

Your failed continent’s inability to compete because of your crushing regulations does not give you carte blanche to punish companies that can compete.
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Calling Europe a failed continent but starting your argument with “A functioning US government would…” is hilarious.
 
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DominikHoffmann said:
The fact that we users of devices in the Apple ecosystem simply do not care about whether or not we can run the Safari browser on Android should tell you everything you need to know.

So, Apple, by making its ecosystem exceedingly attractive should now invite others to ruin it. Hmmm! Sounds like the argument for why the western world should allow unlimited and indiscriminate migration into their territories.
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Most macs have chrome installed and most companies rare
lkrupp said:
Safari users on the Apple Discussion Forums are always wanting to update Safari to the latest version only to be told to do that they need to upgrade to the latest version of macOS, especially if they are running macOS earlier than Big Sur. So the only option available is to download and use a third party browser like Firefox or Chrome or Edge or others.

Apple is known for its tight integration of hardware and software stability. The EU’s DMA seems to destroy that tight integration by forcing third party core technologies like a browser engine. What’s next, forcing changes to security and privacy, also something Apple is known for? Remember Flash player? When users got nailed by Flash’s numerous security issues who did they blame? Not Adobe.
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Here's the thing that I want you to realize.

This doesn't do what you described at all.

APPLE IS NOT FORCED to stop using webkit AT ALL.

All it would is the following in one example.
"Chrome currently is a reskinned safari on iOS. this ruling would mean. the chrome app and only the chrome app would be able to run the chromium engine for its browser and no longer be a reskinned version of safari"


People do not understand that these rulings do NOT change apples integration with software. It does not force webkit/safari off the device AT ALL. it doesn't force change ANY components to anything else.


like how do people not realize this??????


As for privacy the browsers would not have access to anything outside of its self already and existing privacy protections designed to isolate the app still remain in place since its ran by the OS anyways.



For people who DONT WANT 3rd party app stores. They don't need to install them.

people literally can just not utilize anything offered to them.

You dont NEED to run another app store. You can keep using apples systems only. Nothing forces you to change it at all.

App developers are allowed to change however they want for theri APP ONLY which is almost the same now anyway.
 
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Wildkraut said:
Simply because the European market would have one evil company less that misuses their market power to lock-in customers by building up anticompetitive hardware and software combination traps to maintain their customer base. Other companies would quickly fill the gap and competition could simply go on in a competitive way.
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OK,sure.

Who would those companies be?

Where does their money come from?

Why would software developers trust them to stick around, and thus make apps for them?

Why would consumers want a smartphone that hardly has any apps yet?

We've seen this play out in the 1990s, and again in the 2000s.
 
nikusak said:
Google’s stranglehold of web browser technology will be complete once EU forces Apple to allow third party engines on iPhone. At the moment, Safari is the only real world alternative for Google’s technology.

Google will release native Chromium, and Chrome and Edge will start using it.

Well done, EU, especially when they are doing this to “foster innovation and competition” 😂

EU is delusional if they think that new web browser engines will emerge because of this. They do not emerge even now; not for Windows, not for Mac, not for Android. Even Microsoft gave up the development of their own because it’s insanely complex.

I find it amusing that MacRumours forum members are actually rooting for this.
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Surely what that means is that you have two browsers to choose from and not one?
 
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GMShadow said:
Again, a functioning US government would be slapping tarriff after tarriff and regulation on the EU until this horsecrap stopped.

Your failed continent’s inability to compete because of your crushing regulations does not give you carte blanche to punish companies that can compete.
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I just spent a month in Europe (Spain, Germany) and they have a lot more freedom than we have..
 
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I7guy said:
Ios is treated in the eu as a public utility. Apple should close up shop, but it will never happen.
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Well, companies that love to circumvent taxes on a large scale and build up an anticompetitive market on top has no value to any country, and the tax topic is the next thing the EU will tackle.

Yes, they will never close the shop here, greed is one of their core values, and their greed is starting to bounce back to the US. Just watch their unnecessary US price increases. If they would care for the humanity as shown in their fake ads, they would keep the prices stable or even lower it during harder economical times, specially since they are sitting on a pile of money.

Anyway, Apple would walk over dead bodies for a sack of gold.
 
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nikusak said:
Google’s stranglehold of web browser technology will be complete once EU forces Apple to allow third party engines on iPhone. At the moment, Safari is the only real world alternative for Google’s technology.

Google will release native Chromium, and Chrome and Edge will start using it.

Well done, EU, especially when they are doing this to “foster innovation and competition” 😂

EU is delusional if they think that new web browser engines will emerge because of this. They do not emerge even now; not for Windows, not for Mac, not for Android. Even Microsoft gave up the development of their own because it’s insanely complex.
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You obviously just don’t know EUs goal then and complaining about something you don’t understand. things should be allowed to fail on the merit instead of being kept artificially alive as a Frankensteins monster.
nikusak said:
I find it amusing that MacRumours forum members are actually rooting for this.
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Some of us like competition between services. Nothing stops you from using safari if it’s better for you.
eropko said:
Some being reasonable doesn't give EU right to force the unreasonable ones.

Good job on USB-C, but this one is bs.
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What’s the unreasonable part?
Martinpa said:
Exactly that. It’s extremely short-sighted and demonstrates that the EU official pushing for these legislation either have no clue what they’re doing, or they’re doing it under false pretenses
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Or you might be misinformed in their actual goals and legislative intent.
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