Apple Asks for $379 Million in Damages Retrial Against Samsung

[the read]

Can't we sue because we are tired of all these lawsuits? It's causing me headaches and pain. I'm also emotionally damaged that a company I admire is going through such legal actions.

I hope the company you admire is Samsung and not Apple.

After being an apple user for the last 5 iOS versions I finally tried a Samsung with google Android. It's like a new world has opened up.

I'm tired of Apple not listening to their users. The new iPhone hardware is tacky and the new iOS is a disgrace of a design.

Samsung with Andriod have their problems, but im my opinion it's 5 years ahead of Apples iOS which still suffers from the same core issues native in iOS1 back in 2008. This vulger disply and exploitation of lawyers over patient nonsense has left me realizing that Apple need to look into the feature before others are tempted from the cheap iOS they keep complaining about and move to Android.

 

[za9ra22]

...This vulger disply and exploitation of lawyers over patient nonsense.....

I think that's the first time I've ever heard that lawyers are being exploited. Who knew that was even possible!

 

[Hyper-X]

Of course you can always win an argument by reframing it once you find you lost it, but what you are talking about is speculation, not uncertainty. There is zero evidence Apple is involved in tax evasion - zero. And their tax strategies have been examined by the US government, and governments in Europe and (if I recall) Australia.

And currently under review in Italy. Uncertainties can lead to speculation.

Nor was I talking about 'logical analysis' because that has absolutely nothing to do with the presence or absence of an evidential basis for accusations.

It's not an accusation. Read the post again.

The point is that really we do pretty much know what Apple is doing internally. We have to because it is a public company required by law (in just about every jurisdiction where it is traded) to submit a whole raft of reports on internal matters, including income, expenditures and taxes.

Wrong, Apple is NOT a public company, they are a private corporation and not required to reveal all matters openly. There are limits to transparency policies/laws.

Samsung, on the other hand, do not provide that kind of transparency because they are not traded on the US stock market. It is therefore hardly a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

Trading in the the US stock market and transparency are two separate matters. One doesn't dictate the need for the other.

Personally, I'm not remotely interested in whether people here think Apple can do no wrong, or not. That's about as relevant to anything as whether anyone thinks Jurassic Park was a good movie or not. What actually matters is not what people here think, but what Apple actually does. There is evidence here that plenty of people are rather biased, but there is no evidence that Apple has at any time perpetrated, or attempted to perpetrate, a scheme of tax evasion.

So what's your point?

Oh, and on reflection, let us not forget that in the issue being discussed in this thread, it is Samsung, not Apple, or even both companies, who have already been found guilty of unlawful activity - and who admitted to it. This trial is only on the issue of how much damage Samsung's unlawful activity has damaged Apple. On its face, this would hardly put the two companies on the same moral ground. Well founded and proven evidence against Samsung, unfounded and speculative accusations against Apple. It is difficult to imagine how anyone could think there is parity of wrongdoing in this.

You're basing your grounds on information provided by the media, MR's falls into this category as much as your local news outlet. Media will report only want they want to publish, not necessarily the whole story. The issue is whether that's by choice or lack of information of the complete details. This is a pro-Apple site, there's an expectation that they're going to be biased in that manner.

That's exactly the point: "anyone who puts a lot of weight on the scores isn't seeing the full picture". The average consumer isn't as knowledgeable as you or I and a lot of us see rigging the results as an attempt to deceive consumers.

I've already explained this. You don't have to be knowledgeable to understand the intent of benchmarking, and it's not a new testing method as when computer systems are often benchmarked, the system dedicates all the resources available to perform the best it can, so as I said earlier, benchmarking tests for maximum performance. There's no "rigging" when a 2.3Ghz CPU is performing at 2.3Ghz speeds during such tests. I would retract my statement if and only if the CPU was running higher than it's rated for, i.e over clocked to 2.5Ghz when rated as a 2.3Ghz CPU. The author in ArsT clearly doesn't seem to know how benchmarking works, and it wouldn't be the first for someone to use a flawed testing strategy and come to an incorrect conclusion.

How does that statement fit with what Samsung was doing? They were intentionally rigging the results in their favour in one piece of software. The same software that's used to measure it's performance against it's competitors. The results they gave are not consistent with typical daily use and are not repeatable by the average user.

I've already explained this.

This is BS on so many levels I'm not sure where to begin.

First, neither you or I have any knowledge of how Nitro works and what level of memory and hardware access is required for it's optimizations. There's obviously a good reason it's split like this; security being the primary one.

I know how the Nitro Engine works in iOS 6, the code is available online for anyone who knows how to read it. If you look at how the Nitrous Cydia add-on is written, it's nearly identical except it's not exclusive to mobile Safari.

If you look at BaldiMac's link, it clearly states

Perhaps the biggest reason for Nitro’s performance improvements over WebKit’s previous JavaScript engine is the use of a JIT — “Just-In-Time” compilation. Here’s Wikipedia’s page on JIT. A JIT requires the ability to mark memory pages in RAM as executable, but, iOS, as a security measure, does not allow pages in memory to be marked as executable. This is a significant and serious security policy. Most modern operating systems do allow pages in memory to be marked as executable — including Mac OS X, Windows, and (I believe) Android1. iOS 4.3 makes an exception to this policy, but the exception is specifically limited to Mobile Safari.

So that article makes it clear that they sacrificed security for performance for mobile Safari. If maintaining maximum security was a priority, Nitro wouldn't be implemented in the first place. So again why is it ok for Apple to do this for Safari and not for example Chrome? If security was really the issue, why is there no way to disable Nitro from Mobile Safari?

Second, Apple is not marketing their phones with graphs showing "20% faster Facebook". Apple markets the platform, not app vs. app between eco systems.

Samsung isn't advertising their 2.3Ghz Snapdragon products to be performing above and beyond of what other 2.3Ghz products should be capable of doing. If the LG device wasn't performing on par with 2.3Ghz performance during a benchmark test, I'd argue that it's an issue with LG not doing what it's supposed to do during such a test.

 

[Hyper-X]

I hope the company you admire is Samsung and not Apple.

After being an apple user for the last 5 iOS versions I finally tried a Samsung with google Android. It's like a new world has opened up.

I'm tired of Apple not listening to their users. The new iPhone hardware is tacky and the new iOS is a disgrace of a design.

Samsung with Andriod have their problems, but im my opinion it's 5 years ahead of Apples iOS which still suffers from the same core issues native in iOS1 back in 2008. This vulger disply and exploitation of lawyers over patient nonsense has left me realizing that Apple need to look into the feature before others are tempted from the cheap iOS they keep complaining about and move to Android.

It's quite normal for people to try different platforms after being loyal to any single company for any long period of time. Many companies over promise and under deliver.

Some of Android's issues are in regards to third party manufacturers. Unlike Apple who maintains full control over the device hardware and software, Android has to share it with 3rd parties.

So when there's an update to the OS, it's not always as simple as hitting the update button, some devices are custom tailored by the device manufacturer or carrier (i.e. HTC, T-Mobile, etc.) so their customers have to sit tight and wait until the update rolls out... if it does. However that's less about Android (Google) than it is about the insistence by some to maintain a stubborn appearance on their respective devices.

iOS has a unique issue in regards to App selection, many of their apps are quite terrible unless it's for Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Candy Crush, etc. Apple tells you what apps you're allowed to install on a phone you pay for, which is part of the reason why millions of people jailbreak their devices to overcome the limitation. Many people feed off the fact that there are more iOS apps than their competitors but what's the point when the majority of those apps are rubbish.

 

[apolloa]

We have no way to know if cards based task switching was not a license deal from LG or out of the patents they licensed earlier this year. We have no reason to presume it wasn't a square deal like Apple has done in the past.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...-in-patents-originally-created-by-palm-others

With the money on the line IF Apple was infringing on Android Google would be all over it, but so far I don't see anything. Time will tell.

The fact they didn't 'innovate' their own ideas is very annoying, considering how much they blab on about 'innovating', all they have done with iOS7 is 'copying'. Doesn't matter about any licensing deals, the fact is Apple constantly goes on about innovation and states everyone else copy's, yet they completely rip off ideas from other OS's too. It's very hypocritical.

 

[Konrad9]

No. But the S3 and S4 are less than 20% of the marketshare that Samsung has in "Android Phones" The rest is flip phones that look like they came from 1999. That was his point.

You do realize that those flip phones exist because they are sold in countries that can't afford the S4 and iPhone 5?

Of course you do, but it doesn't matter because it's a convenient way to attack a competitor.

----------

Please refer to my last answer to the guy above as I'd answer pretty much the same thing to you too.

Where in my post did you read I'm judging anyone from third world countries based on their buying habit?

I was merely correcting a factual inaccuracy regarding market share and average device selling price, that is all.

I didn't attack Samsung nor their customers, so please stop reacting like I did.

It's getting annoying that you can't even discuss anything Samsung over here without generating reactions for things you didn't even say.

Defending a company that wasn't even attacked is almost as worse as attacking a company for no valid reason, and it's a behavior I notice more and more here and it's really getting annoying.

You said that Samsung owns most of the marketshare because they make "cheap low end phones". They own that marketshare because those phones go to undeveloped countries, where they don't have the infrastructure to support 3G or LTE devices nor can the populace afford $200+ phones with $100+/month bills.

THAT is your argument, sorry for explaining it in further detail than you did.

 

[Digital Skunk]

The fact they didn't 'innovate' their own ideas is very annoying, considering how much they blab on about 'innovating', all they have done with iOS7 is 'copying'. Doesn't matter about any licensing deals, the fact is Apple constantly goes on about innovation and states everyone else copy's, yet they completely rip off ideas from other OS's too. It's very hypocritical.

Tell me about it. I don't know if HP cares any bit about taking it to Apple about their "multitasking" and how they close the apps that are open in iOS 7 but it's a terrible rip of Palm's old WebOS.

Sadly, for both WebOS and iOS7, that app quitter was great for 2007; in typical Apple fashion they gave users a much needed update for closing apps, but there's still no way to close ALL of the apps save for swiping up on each one or turning your phone off and on again.

The same thing goes for the notifications center and the second notifications center at the bottom.

 

[clibinarius]

You really can't be serious. First, Apple testified regarding their legal tax avoidance strategies. Not tax evasion. And then "There's no evidence that Apple's not engaging in such activities" is just ridiculous on its face.

To step in for a minute, I'll agree with BaldiMac that it isn't fair to take an innocent until proven guilty stance; while I suspect Apple is a massive tax cheater, although they may legally get away with it, that's a matter for the courts.

Same with issues regarding Samsung.

What is known with Apple though is they have pioneered tax evasion strategies that are technically legal. And right now they are facing severe scrutiny in the EU for tax evasion-it seems like Italy in particular is going after them.

I think Samsung acts with far more impunity because for Korea they're too big to fail and they know it. But remember, Apple did get the ban on their products vetoed. Samsung has received no such treatment. President Obama is not a judge, and I do not approve of the decision unless he will do the same for Samsung simply because it looks like Mr. Obama wants to pursue protectionist policies by fiat, which is not a good stance for future treaty negotiations with any entity at all...

And subsequently I think the smugness-that Samsung will outright effectively say that they're too big to fail-is where a lot of hostility comes from, beyond the lawsuits. But I tend to not care about Samsung's arrogance; to add, just because Apple is less arrogant in public than Samsung about the nature of their positions in the economy does not make them better in any way, shape or form, it only makes them seem less bad. It doesn't mean that they're not better either.

 

[dBeats]

You do realize that those flip phones exist because they are sold in countries that can't afford the S4 and iPhone 5?

Of course you do, but it doesn't matter because it's a convenient way to attack a competitor.

I realize that. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them. I'm saying when people talk about "Android" marketshare, or even "Samsung's" marketshare, they throw everything in, and come to the conclusion that the galaxy line of phones is "killing" the iPhone. That's all I'm saying.

 

[za9ra22]

You're basing your grounds on information provided by the media, MR's falls into this category as much as your local news outlet. Media will report only want they want to publish, not necessarily the whole story. The issue is whether that's by choice or lack of information of the complete details. This is a pro-Apple site, there's an expectation that they're going to be biased in that manner.

I think it wise that you don't presume the basis on which someone else gets their information. I realise it's easier to assume others are sufficiently ignorant of the details that you know better than they, but it it makes discussion with you rather pointless.

As to your other comments, thanks, I have read your post, once was sufficient.

 

[Hyper-X]

I think it wise that you don't presume the basis on which someone else gets their information. I realise it's easier to assume others are sufficiently ignorant of the details that you know better than they, but it it makes discussion with you rather pointless.

As to your other comments, thanks, I have read your post, once was sufficient.

I think it is wise that you fact check all sources of information yourself and not assume everything you read and hear is necessarily true.

 

[unplugme71]

I hope the company you admire is Samsung and not Apple.

After being an apple user for the last 5 iOS versions I finally tried a Samsung with google Android. It's like a new world has opened up.

I'm tired of Apple not listening to their users. The new iPhone hardware is tacky and the new iOS is a disgrace of a design.

Samsung with Andriod have their problems, but im my opinion it's 5 years ahead of Apples iOS which still suffers from the same core issues native in iOS1 back in 2008. This vulger disply and exploitation of lawyers over patient nonsense has left me realizing that Apple need to look into the feature before others are tempted from the cheap iOS they keep complaining about and move to Android.

I've tried every iteration of Android since it's inception. I never liked their interface, their long delay time, or tacky tactile feedback on their hardware/software. Even though Apple may be 1 major version behind in their OS, their software, interface, and hardware has always been solid. Even the android fanboys at work say they wish they had some features of the iPhone in their phones as it would make the best 'ultimate' phone - e.g. feedback response time, battery life, eco system, apps, etc..

 

[Digital Skunk]

I realize that. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with them. I'm saying when people talk about "Android" marketshare, or even "Samsung's" marketshare, they throw everything in, and come to the conclusion that the galaxy line of phones is "killing" the iPhone. That's all I'm saying.

True, but even Apple claimed that "mobile" means anything you can take with you, as opposed to electronics that easily fit in your pocket.

To be honest, we should include flip phones in the lineup. We can't simply change the market as it fits us because the numbers don't match up to what we want to hear.

Android has more marketshare, smartphones and flip phones included. If Apple wants to "kill" Android they only have two choices; compete or sue.

I've tried every iteration of Android since it's inception. I never liked their interface, their long delay time, or tacky tactile feedback on their hardware/software. Even though Apple may be 1 major version behind in their OS, their software, interface, and hardware has always been solid. Even the android fanboys at work say they wish they had some features of the iPhone in their phones as it would make the best 'ultimate' phone - e.g. feedback response time, battery life, eco system, apps, etc..

The same could be said the other way around which is exactly what happens to me everyday when I pull out my Note II to run an entire TV station and transmitter.

Although, the Note II doesn't have any response time, battery life, or app issues. Google does need to work on its ecosystem though. It's just not as consistent as Apple's, but Apple is a joke when it comes to the cloud.

 

[MyMac1976]

Well it's normal for people here to be defensive of Apple products, and much so for Samsung and any other product/manufacturer forum.

The bottom line is there's a large demand for Apple products but unfortunately their grasp on the market has dwindled and namely Samsung is making a strong presence in the mobile marketplace. You can't dispute the numbers, for whatever reason each buyer has, there is a high demand for Samsung products.

What I don't seem to understand is why a person has to be a hater towards a company/product they don't personally use. I use a iPhone 4S, my wife uses a Samsung S4 and it doesn't bother me one bit. There's as many haters on each side of the fence and I don't get it. The only reason I can come up with is perhaps each side is unwilling to admit that they're jealous of the other side.

I just can't find it in me to get excited about phone of any shape or size or manufacturer.

If replaceable RAM is all of a sudden "cheap" then is the 27" iMac with its RAM door slots "cheap"? Or mac mini RAM "cheap"? Of all the defenses of soldered RAM, I think the idea that removable RAM is "cheap" is the weakest.

My point is that I think corporate shills are everywhere in tech blogs, and I believe all companies are equally guilty of this. I've seen posters I think are Microsoft shills here, but I've also seen posters I suspect are paid by Apple here.

AppleInsider also had a poster that claimed he terminated employees if they used Google/Android products. Is this guy for real? Because I've worked in a variety of workplaces and never has using Google been a fireable offense. But it's quite possible he's a paid corporate promoter who wants to give the impression that "using Google can get you fired!"

Who knows. People have their agendas, that's all I'm saying.

I think there are more than a few Apple shills here but I don't have any inherent issue with that I just add them to my ignore list

 

[za9ra22]

I think it is wise that you fact check all sources of information yourself and not assume everything you read and hear is necessarily true.

Again, you don't have the slightest clue what sources I have and what information I base my contributions on. If this kind of put down is the best you can do, discussion with you is not only pointless, but impossible.

 

[Taz Mangus]

I highly doubt that the OP were referring $1400 and $600 smartphones like those two

But the OP is right, even those $1400 and $600 Samsung Android flip phones look like they came from the 1990s.

 

[Oletros]

But the OP is right, even those $1400 and $600 Samsung Android flip phones look like they came from the 1990s.

Perhaps it is right in that those look like 90s but he is wrong in his main claim.

 

[Hyper-X]

Again, you don't have the slightest clue what sources I have and what information I base my contributions on. If this kind of put down is the best you can do, discussion with you is not only pointless, but impossible.

Neither do you have a grasp on the resources I have. So what's your point?

I just can't find it in me to get excited about phone of any shape or size or manufacturer.

And that's fine. People buy devices for their own unique reasons and both parties Android and iOS seem to share a lot of commonality when it comes to finding reasons to hate the other.

For example for myself I deal with a very specific area within network security, so iOS devices offer absolutely nothing that I can use. I'm sure the jailbreak community could come up with something but the demand is very low and I doubt there'd be solid, ongoing support. That doesn't mean Apple mobile devices suck, it's just that for the reason I stated, it's not the best mobile tool I can use, for that I go with Android.

On the other hand I do have my 4S and it works for everything else. The choice was made because of the availability for accessories. If I were to buy a Galaxy S4 for example, it's not easy to find a good case that I like in my area. When it comes to any iPhone, you can find a case everywhere, and there's lot of good accessory support for iOS devices. I'm just condemned with my carrier for poor service but I don't fault that on the iPhone.

A lot of blind critics of my posts don't realize that I'm much harsher on the Android forums as I hold an open source community to higher standards since they have the ability to develop whatever they want, whereas in iOS products, you're severely limited as to what Apple does and doesn't allow in their App Store.

 

[kdarling]

Now which of the companies would you think is totally dishonest? There is one whose CEO is convicted of tax evasion...

You're talking about the overall CEO of the Samsung conglomerate, who has products and responsibilities related to an entire nation's feeding, housing, defense and income. In comparison, Apple is a minor toy company.

If you want to compare Apple's CEO with someone, compare him to the CEO of Samsung Electronics. He's got a doctorate from Stanford, and is like a combination Jobs, Ive and Cook. He went from the 1980s making the electronics division into a world leader in memory, to creating the recent Galaxy series.

 

[Digital Skunk]

You're talking about the overall CEO of the Samsung conglomerate, who has products and responsibilities related to an entire nation's feeding, housing, defense and income. In comparison, Apple is a minor toy company.

If you want to compare Apple's CEO with someone, compare him to the CEO of Samsung Electronics. He's got a doctorate from Stanford, and is like a combination Jobs, Ive and Cook. He went from the 1980s making the electronics division into a world leader in memory, to creating the recent Galaxy series.

View attachment 448521

But he's not Steve Jobs, or Tim Cook, or Ive. I bet his farts don't smell like roses and the sun doesn't shine out of his @**.

 

[fertilized-egg]

If you want to compare Apple's CEO with someone, compare him to the CEO of Samsung Electronics. He's got a doctorate from Stanford, and is like a combination Jobs, Ive and Cook. He went from the 1980s making the electronics division into a world leader in memory, to creating the recent Galaxy series.]

But he's not Steve Jobs, or Tim Cook, or Ive. I bet his farts don't smell like roses and the sun doesn't shine out of his @**.

Guys, I hate to break it to you while you're making your amazing jokes but Kwon's work experience and specialty have been in leading the semiconductor components at Samsung, not the end user side. The consumer side had been helmed by other people. In other words, Kwon is neither Jobs, Ive or Cook.

 

[johnnyturbouk]

And exactly why is that relevant to the Apple vs Samsung case?

Lol- made me spit my coffee out!