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That's Article 1 of the U.S. Constitution, if you're not familiar.

I don't think the founders of the Constitution had SOFTWARE patents and design patents in mind at the time.... But then muskets for arms somehow mean mini-howitzers to some today and the whole thing was written by revolutionaries (today we'd call them terrorists) who tossed out the laws of the colony they lived in and killed anyone who came to enforce those laws. Yet all of these people, law-abider and rebel alike were all part of groups that just came over and took over Native American lands as if they owned it. As far as I'm concerned, there's a certain, shall we say illegitimacy to US Law due to these actions.
 
Yet all of these people, law-abider and rebel alike were all part of groups that just came over and took over Native American lands as if they owned it. As far as I'm concerned, there's a certain, shall we say illegitimacy to US Law due to these actions.

I wonder who your ancestors displaced before making themselves at home.
 
A distinction without a difference, at best, if only because some things can be both patented and copyrighted, and both are founded on identical intellectual property principles. I believe the abuses in the IP system can be addressed without throwing it out entirely.

I take it you're not a lawyer. There definitely is a difference between copyright, trademarks and patents.

For a starter, copyright and trademark provide the owner the right to do something (e.g., spreading the copyrighted work, use the trademark) while a patent gives the owner the right to exclude others from doing something.

The first two, positive, rights definitely serve a purpose. If I write an article, someone else shouldn't be able to take that without my consent and sell it as their own. However, that person has every right to take the ideas expressed in the article and take them on as her/his own and to present them in articles written by the person.

Patents are like protecting the ideas that I had expressed in that text. Basically saying I thought of it first and now no one else can use them without the threat of me suing them. Which is ludicrous in my humble opinion. If someone has the skills to reverse engineer something that I came up with, he or she should be able to do or make the same thing.

It may theoretically be possible to fix the issues of the patent system through even more law but as every tax code on earth teaches us, that's not really a sustainable approach. The most efficient thing is to just get rid of it. Removes costs from the judicial system, which can benefit areas such as criminal law where real people get hurt, or it can be given back to the tax payer through for example a lower corporate tax rate. And, probably more significant, it reduces the legal expenses for companies which in turn they no longer have to pass on to the consumer.
 
Actually, the determination of a lawsuit being frivolous has nothing to do with the outcome. The determination of a frivolous lawsuit has to be made before it proceeds to trial, or at least when initial evidence is presented.

Of course a lawsuit that wins couldn't be frivolous, but just because you lose doesn't mean it was frivolous.

A judge determines if a lawsuit is frivolous. What these companies are asking for, is that once a judge makes that ruling they should be able to collect more from the plaintiff. This is to discourage people from filing lawsuits that have no chance of succeeding in hopes of extorting money from deep pockets.

I don't believe this has anything to do at all with legitimate claims with the possibility of merit.
Yet, Apple files frivolous lawsuits themselves. Can we say "rectangle with rounded corners". So, they better hope they don't get their way, of course I hope they do and further, that if someone brings a frivolous lawsuit, they should have to pay all court costs, such as lights, the judge's salary, etc.
 
I take it you're not a lawyer. There definitely is a difference between copyright, trademarks and patents.

For a starter, copyright and trademark provide the owner the right to do something (e.g., spreading the copyrighted work, use the trademark) while a patent gives the owner the right to exclude others from doing something.

The first two, positive, rights definitely serve a purpose. If I write an article, someone else shouldn't be able to take that without my consent and sell it as their own. However, that person has every right to take the ideas expressed in the article and take them on as her/his own and to present them in articles written by the person.

Patents are like protecting the ideas that I had expressed in that text. Basically saying I thought of it first and now no one else can use them without the threat of me suing them. Which is ludicrous in my humble opinion. If someone has the skills to reverse engineer something that I came up with, he or she should be able to do or make the same thing.

It may theoretically be possible to fix the issues of the patent system through even more law but as every tax code on earth teaches us, that's not really a sustainable approach. The most efficient thing is to just get rid of it. Removes costs from the judicial system, which can benefit areas such as criminal law where real people get hurt, or it can be given back to the tax payer through for example a lower corporate tax rate. And, probably more significant, it reduces the legal expenses for companies which in turn they no longer have to pass on to the consumer.

And completely eliminates the incentive to invent. Just a minor casualty, nothing to worry about. Patents are no more "ideas" than copyrights are ideas. In fact, you can't patent an idea. That much I know, without being a lawyer.
 
I wonder who your ancestors displaced before making themselves at home.

Not to change the subject too much, but while non-peaceful migrations have taken place throughout human history, there are few countries in the world whose existence is so closely tied to mass genocide.

I was playing the game Empire Total War the other day and was struck by how casually the destruction of the native americans was treated. Within modern day's ethical framework, the actions of the Europeans, and later the independent Americans, back then is indefensible. But the winners write the history books I guess.

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And completely eliminates the incentive to invent. Just a minor casualty, nothing to worry about. Patents are no more "ideas" than copyrights are ideas. In fact, you can't patent an idea. That much I know, without being a lawyer.

You seriously underestimate human curiosity and entrepreneurial instinct if you think the only thing driving people to invent is the prospect of being able to sue and/or demand royalties of others. Will it change the dynamics of business? Certainly. But the argument of there not being an incentive to invent is just FUD.

You'd be surprised what gets approved by the patent office. And especially in the case of software patents (an area especially beloved by patent trolls) what would you call those but ideas?
 
I don't disagree, (well actually I do) but how do you feel about copywrite?

You say non transfer, but say I invented the wooden hover board in my garage tomorrow, and patented it, but I really didn't have the time or will to go into mass production, you don't think I should be able to sell you the rights to make it, and you could buy the invention and patent off me.

Hmm, I see your point.

I'm not sure how to make itwork, what about inheritance? What I'd love to see is a way to avoid the creation of patent-holding companies.
 
I wonder who your ancestors displaced before making themselves at home.

Given my ancestors didn't come over here until the 1920s, I'd say no one. But frankly, what this country did to the Native Americans was unforgivable, IMO and I don't even mean the colonists. Look up the Trail of Tears to get an idea.
 
But what about the small chiseler

The greatest figures in all American business are the late-night TV hustlers giving you junk sex pills and junk that doesn't work for long, sold to you by pitchmen. If we keep the laws only benefitting the large companies, where are we going to get our fraudulent claims income! Obama would be hurting the economy again! I mean, where would candidates get their funding if it wasn't from rich sleazeballs? Socialist!

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Apple put together a hell of a lot of money by developing the iPhone and iPad. You can, if you suddenly see the "big new thing" has already been done by somebody else, see if you can somehow do it differently, or better; or you can pay for the use of the patents or the trade mark material -- of which "rounded corners" was an item in a long list of resemblances between Apple's and Samsung's phone. What Samsung did was save on research and development by copying. Didn't even bother with changing the phone icon very much.

Neither company is broken by having to pay a billion or two or not being able to sell the phones from two years ago in the US.
 
Your specific algorithm is protected under copyright. That means no one could look at your source code, lift it, then sell it for their own profit. But if someone comes with with an entirely different algorithm to produce the same end results as yours, then they have every right to profit from it without even taking your copyright into consideration.
Of course they do, just as I don't expect Intel to be the only one allowed to build processors. I'm not sure I understand your comparison. There are a number of compression schemes that are patented as they work on different principles. Creating a new scheme won't get you sued, implementing someone else's without a license should.
 
Of course they do, just as I don't expect Intel to be the only one allowed to build processors. I'm not sure I understand your comparison. There are a number of compression schemes that are patented as they work on different principles. Creating a new scheme won't get you sued, implementing someone else's without a license should.

Since you agree that the outcome shouldn't be covered by a patent, think of it like this...

What is a program? At its most basic, it's a series of commands laid out in a specific structure telling a computer how to do something. If you're working with something complex, it's unlikely that some random programmer will manage to copy your thousands of lines of code verbatim to achieve a similar result. So why patent it?

A copyright makes more sense for programmers, since it protects their work, but doesn't give them ownership of the end result. Software patents tend to confuse that, as they, at times, tend to cover both the method and the output, keeping people from achieving similar end results.
 
Since you agree that the outcome shouldn't be covered by a patent, think of it like this...

What is a program? At its most basic, it's a series of commands laid out in a specific structure telling a computer how to do something. If you're working with something complex, it's unlikely that some random programmer will manage to copy your thousands of lines of code verbatim to achieve a similar result. So why patent it?
A circuit and an algorithm are basically the same thing except one is software and the other is hardware. You can patent a circuit so why shouldn't you be allowed patent an algorithm?

A copyright makes more sense for programmers, since it protects their work, but doesn't give them ownership of the end result. Software patents tend to confuse that, as they, at times, tend to cover both the method and the output, keeping people from achieving similar end results.
A copyright will not work. Someone could port your algorithm to another language and claim ownership of it.

I'm not sure that is the case. There are plenty of similar software patents, compression schemes are a perfect example. If the patent office is granting ownership of the end result that is the real problem not software patents as a whole.

A lot of times I see people read the one line synopsis, "packet transmission over a network" and assume nobody else is allowed to send packets over a network. If you take the time to read the patent the approach is detailed and highly specific. It does not prevent others from doing the same thing, it only prevents them from using that mechanism to do it.

In theory, software patents should drive innovation by forcing developers to think outside the box and come up with new, unique solutions to existing problems.
 
A circuit and an algorithm are basically the same thing except one is software and the other is hardware. You can patent a circuit so why shouldn't you be allowed patent an algorithm?

A copyright will not work. Someone could port your algorithm to another language and claim ownership of it.

Ask yourself this: while working within a limited set of predefined rules, are any of the individual parts you create truly unique? It's like math in a way. Someone could come up with an incredible calculus equation to explain market trends, but it's really the creative use of calculus that's innovative, not the formula itself, which was derived by using the rules and methods of calculus in the way they were meant to be used.

It's the same way with a circuit. Circuits are well documented, and widely understood. There's only so many ways you can implement them. That's why circuits themselves aren't patentable, only the methods to create them, the manufacturing process. If you could patent circuits, you'd have situations where some guy uses a transistor here, but not there, or swaps this part for that. He's using well defined bits and pieces in a well understood system in only very slightly different ways, which to any electric engineer would be obvious.

And if it's obvious, it can't be patented.

And that's the problem with software patents. To any programmer, it's all obvious. If you were to get 10 programmers with similar levels of experience together in a room and tell them "do this with C++", they'd all come up with similar results.

That's not to say you don't deserve credit and compensation for your hard work. That's where copyright comes in. You own the program you made, and you can do whatever you want to with it. But individual parts that make up the program as a whole, not so much.

I'm not sure that is the case. There are plenty of similar software patents, compression schemes are a perfect example. If the patent office is granting ownership of the end result that is the real problem not software patents as a whole.

The real problem with software patents is that, because you're working in a predefined set of rules, there are only so many ways you can achieve an end result efficiently. After a short amount of time, every efficient method out there will be patented, and you, as a programmer, have to work around them inefficiently to achieve a desired end result, or pay someone a license fee to do your job.

And when that happens, you run into situations like Carmack's Reverse. So...

In theory, software patents should drive innovation by forcing developers to think outside the box and come up with new, unique solutions to existing problems.

Software patents actually have the opposite effect. Because they ultimately limit what programmers can do.
 
patent that irks me

"Color Kinetics" PWM LED lighting patent.

Everyone knows you can change light intensity by Pulse Width Modulation.
Everyone knows you can add Red + Green + Blue to get any color.

So, put those two things together and you have a patent, the PWM control of RGB LEDs to make any color. It is one of the things that the whole industry had always realized as being obvious... but someone went out and patented it.

This is one of the most irritating things ... to patent an idea that is already in general practice.

J
 
A circuit and an algorithm are basically the same thing except one is software and the other is hardware. You can patent a circuit so why shouldn't you be allowed patent an algorithm?


A copyright will not work. Someone could port your algorithm to another language and claim ownership of it.

Because there are dozens of ways to skin cats when it comes to programming. The end result, though is the same (the skinned cat). Software patents allow people to patent the end result an that's a crock of poo because you can do things differently, better, more efficient and get to the same place without ever looking at anyone else's code. But if they deem it's the same basic algorithm (and they ultimately will only look at the start/end results, not the steps to get there or any code since these things are just block diagrams of really abstract concepts), they will SUE YOUR ARSE OFF.

Design patents... Apple gets a patent for a RECTANGLE that makes phone calls and accesses computer-like functions. Sorry, but it should never have been granted. It's too general; it's too abstract. It's bullcrap. It's not the exact shape of a Coke bottle we're talking about here that someone measured and imitated to the exact measurements or proportions. And there lies the real problem with these things. There is NO COMMON SENSE in the patent offices. They grant ANYTHING these days that someone draws a picture of and this allows everything from patent trolls that just draw up every abstract idea they can think of for smart phones to move data around to companies like Apple that do the VERY SAME THING. Apple doesn't implement a fraction of the patents they file. They do it so they can sue the pants off someone if they happen to come up with a similar idea for a product they actually might want to make. But you've got the usual suspects here and everywhere that defend companies they LIKE such as Apple filing thousands of patents every year on things they have no intention of making and yet when some two bit company no one has heard of does the EXACT SAME THING they are labeled patent trolls just because they don't make ANYTHING. So what? What's the difference? It's just that Apple has a DIVISION that does this (more or less) while these people are just hoping they come up with some basic communication idea that someone will need in some new device so they can sue their pants off, BUT Apple would do the SAME THING if someone came up with something that crossed one of their unused patents.

ALL of this STIFLES competition. I can't make a rectangular mobile computer with a touch interface without someone like Apple trying to sue me even if that computer is modeled after a tri-corder from Star Trek or something and not an iPhone. It doesn't matter. It's a computer in a handheld box that has a touch interface and runs programs.... Apple would scream THE SAME THING. And no two-bit judge or patent clerk seems to understand such a basic abstract thing (based on calculators you could argue) should have EVER been granted a patent to begin with. But you have to spend a TON of money to go to court to fight the patent suit against you and large companies like Apple know you will cave on the lawyer costs before you ever make it to court, right or wrong.

The U.S. is supposed to be about Capitalism and that means COMPETITION. Anything that stifles competition had better have one hell of a good reason to be allowed to exist. Companies spending a fortune to discover a new medicine or whatever is one thing. Someone patenting the "idea" of accessing an email off a central server over a network (no matter what the device) is RIDICULOUS (I'm not saying such a thing exists, but a lot of these little suits against Apple and other companies ARE based on the abstract IDEA of communicating from one place to another and these things are granted by IDIOTS that don't know a serial port from a hole in the ground. Just moving bits around is not something that should be patentable. Moving them around in an exact method that saves a ton of processing power, etc....MAYBE. But if it's the ONLY way something will work (i.e. anyone would come up with it to do that task), NO. It's not UNIQUE or special.

A lot of times I see people read the one line synopsis, "packet transmission over a network" and assume nobody else is allowed to send packets over a network. If you take the time to read the patent the approach is detailed and highly specific. It does not prevent others from doing the same thing, it only prevents them from using that mechanism to do it.

But if it comes down to simply moving emails over a network, they will grant it anyway because at some point no one has ever done it with a smart phone over WiFi or whatever. Being FIRST shouldn't mean granting a patent when all the sub-blocks already existed. If you INVENTED WiFi, it's another matter entirely. But email existed before WiFi yet someone will inevitably act like they invented the Earth itself and some idiot will grant a patent for it somewhere and then you have to fight it rather than just let common sense rule the day. I wish I could remember a specific example offhand, but you see some of these things and companies like Apple will just pay the high fees (pocket change to them) whereas small companies would lose all their profits. But Apple has every incentive to keep the system going because as I said above, they do it themselves all the time too.

In theory, software patents should drive innovation by forcing developers to think outside the box and come up with new, unique solutions to existing problems.

In reality, the first person to put chocolate syrup into milk hasn't really invented anything. He took two things that already exist and made a suspension. Big deal. But what you're telling me is that they should be the only ones to be able to make chocolate milk for x amount of years. And that's the other thing. It makes sense for medicine, etc. to have fairly long patent lengths. But a year in the computer world is like 5 years in medicine. If someone can patent email over a mobile smart phone, they'd have the LONE ability to move email for years and years and so they'd essentially have a monopoly on smart phones because no one else could make one without paying them for the right to do email. But like pouring chocolate syrup into milk, putting email onto a smaller computer is just mixing two things that already exist in a different container. They fact it should not have been granted in the first place is the real problem. Patent clerks are morons. They look to see if one already exists. If not, they grant it. They don't even consider whether it should be allowed to be patented in the first place these days and thus we get MILLIONS of patents covering anything the human mind can think of, most paid for by large companies that can afford $5k a pop or whatever it is now (when you're Apple, $5000 is NOTHING; to a mom and pop inventor, it's a lot of money). And then they buy/sell these zillions of patents and you then end up with a few companies that are enormous and control MOST of the world's information, art, music catalogs, etc. If one thinks the wealth distribution is bad these days, the control of information is getting worse and worse.

Why shouldn't Bejeweled sue the crap out of King over Candy Crush? It's an OBVIOUS and BLATANT rip-off of Bejeweled. Oh, they didn't get a patent on that exact style of puzzle games? What if they did? What happened to competition? If Bejeweled is actually better (power-ups, layout, colors, whatever), it should sell better given even pricing. King charges to buy more time, basically and I'd bet they make 1000x the money Pop-Cap ever made on Bejeweled even though it's the better game (and not a rip-off). But that hasn't stopped King from trying to trademark the word "Candy" for ALL software games. WTF gives them the right to do that? STUPID ASS LAWS made by greedmongers to limit wealth distribution and sue the pants off anyone and everyone (I'm sure the lawyers LOVE it).
 
It's the same way with a circuit. Circuits are well documented, and widely understood. There's only so many ways you can implement them. That's why circuits themselves aren't patentable, only the methods to create them, the manufacturing process. If you could patent circuits, you'd have situations where some guy uses a transistor here, but not there, or swaps this part for that. He's using well defined bits and pieces in a well understood system in only very slightly different ways, which to any electric engineer would be obvious.
You can patent a circuit. It's been done many times.

The real problem with software patents is that, because you're working in a predefined set of rules, there are only so many ways you can achieve an end result efficiently. After a short amount of time, every efficient method out there will be patented, and you, as a programmer, have to work around them inefficiently to achieve a desired end result, or pay someone a license fee to do your job.

And when that happens, you run into situations like Carmack's Reverse. So...
How is that any different than hardware? If you want to design a new physical product you only have so many components you can use to build it. You can create a new unique design yourself or license someone else's.

Given the choice between using a less-efficient algorithm or cutting a deal with Creative, Carmack decided to work with Creative.
That is exactly what I was pointing out. He wrote a similar algorithm and found out they had a better one. He chose to use theirs since it was more efficient. What they required was a bit over the top but those are the terms they agreed upon to use their technology. He could have used his own if he wanted, but he wanted the best possible product and their solution was better.

Say you are building a cell phone. You need a radio to connect to towers, you design your own method that drops calls 1 out of 10 times. Someone else has a method that doesn't drop any calls. What do you do? You can continue R&D on your design and fix the problems or license an already vetted solution. It's the same situation.

Because there are dozens of ways to skin cats when it comes to programming. The end result, though is the same (the skinned cat). Software patents allow people to patent the end result an that's a crock of poo because you can do things differently, better, more efficient and get to the same place without ever looking at anyone else's code. But if they deem it's the same basic algorithm (and they ultimately will only look at the start/end results, not the steps to get there or any code since these things are just block diagrams of really abstract concepts), they will SUE YOUR ARSE OFF.
Again, how is that different then hardware? If you are designing a product around a piece of technology and plan on monetizing it, just like you would with hardware you should do the relevant checks to ensure you aren't infringing on someone else's patents.

Let's be honest here. Nobody is trying to patent control structures or the basic building blocks of an application. We are talking about algorithms with extremely specific use cases. The majority of developers will never write code at that level. The ones who do should be as accountable as hardware engineers.

The product we develop has a PDF export feature. I did not want to spend the resources developing a solution in house so we license someone else's technology. It was cheaper and more effective to do so. I do not believe I should be able to use (or clone) their technology for free just because it's software. Nor would I expect them to sue me if I created a competing product using a different algorithm. I'm using theirs and they deserve to be paid for it just as I expect my users to pay for our service.

Software patents actually have the opposite effect. Because they ultimately limit what programmers can do.
That's a cop out. There is no such limit on programming, the only limits are your imagination and the amount of time you are willing to devote to creating a solution.
 
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:)

user6133_pic34477_1326494238.jpg
 
You can patent a circuit. It's been done many times.

Show me where. I tried looking up physical circuit patents, and all I could find were methods to implement them, not for the design of the circuit itself.

Also...

How is that any different than hardware? If you want to design a new physical product you only have so many components you can use to build it. You can create a new unique design yourself or license someone else's.

It'll take a true innovation to be able to patent a specific type of hardware. Like computers for instance. Most of the patents for them belong to manufacturing processes, not for the physical designs of the motherboards themselves.

That is exactly what I was pointing out. He wrote a similar algorithm and found out they had a better one. He chose to use theirs since it was more efficient. What they required was a bit over the top but those are the terms they agreed upon to use their technology. He could have used his own if he wanted, but he wanted the best possible product and their solution was better.

Say you are building a cell phone. You need a radio to connect to towers, you design your own method that drops calls 1 out of 10 times. Someone else has a method that doesn't drop any calls. What do you do? You can continue R&D on your design and fix the problems or license an already vetted solution. It's the same situation.

Actually, no. Shadow volumes have been talked about and experimented with for realtime 3D applications since 1977, and Carmack's work was only a slight extension of what had come before, using packaged and standard OpenGL calls.

He even talked about the method openly before Creative went behind his back and patented it. The whole Carmack's Reverse case is usually held up as one of the prime examples of why software patents are so damaging. It didn't protect Creative's innovation. They didn't even have a game or program out that used them. It just rewarded them for getting to the patent office before anyone else, and gave them ownership of what was, by then, a well documented and widely discussed method.

Again, how is that different then hardware? If you are designing a product around a piece of technology and plan on monetizing it, just like you would with hardware you should do the relevant checks to ensure you aren't infringing on someone else's patents.

Let's be honest here. Nobody is trying to patent control structures or the basic building blocks of an application. We are talking about algorithms with extremely specific use cases. The majority of developers will never write code at that level. The ones who do should be as accountable as hardware engineers.

This is true to a point. Thing is, since software patents cover the output as much as the method, any programmer working an C++ could accidentally infringe on someone's patent just by arranging their syntax in one particular way that produces a similar outcome. It means that no one can just go in and write the Next Big Thing without unknowingly stepping on a few dozen toes along the way. It'll take twice as long to make this Next Big Thing just because they have to do their due diligence by navigating the patent thicket, and then probably find out there's no way to make their program available without paying a ton in licensing fees. If they work for a big company, that's not a big deal. But as long as software patents remain the way they are, garage programmers are a thing of the past.

I mean hell, that one link I posted above showed that someone tried to sue the Linux foundation for floating point operations. They tried to claim ownership for basic freaking math. If they won, you wouldn't be able to program at all without paying Unilock a licensing fee.
 
Show me where. I tried looking up physical circuit patents, and all I could find were methods to implement them, not for the design of the circuit itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kilby

Actually, no. Shadow volumes have been talked about and experimented with for realtime 3D applications since 1977, and Carmack's work was only a slight extension of what had come before, using packaged and standard OpenGL calls.

He even talked about the method openly before Creative went behind his back and patented it. The whole Carmack's Reverse case is usually held up as one of the prime examples of why software patents are so damaging. It didn't protect Creative's innovation. They didn't even have a game or program out that used them. It just rewarded them for getting to the patent office before anyone else, and gave them ownership of what was, by then, a well documented and widely discussed method.
I don't deny the fact that Creative was a total douche about it, and if there was prior art surrounding their shadow algorithm the patent should never have been granted in the first place.

That said, as the article stated Carmack's algorithm was not their algorithm. They were different algorithm's that accomplished the same thing. He wanted to use their algorithm not his, and if you implement someone else's design they deserve to be paid for their work.

This is true to a point. Thing is, since software patents cover the output as much as the method, any programmer working an C++ could accidentally infringe on someone's patent just by arranging their syntax in one particular way that produces a similar outcome. It means that no one can just go in and write the Next Big Thing without unknowingly stepping on a few dozen toes along the way. It'll take twice as long to make this Next Big Thing just because they have to do their due diligence by navigating the patent thicket, and then probably find out there's no way to make their program available without paying a ton in licensing fees. If they work for a big company, that's not a big deal. But as long as software patents remain the way they are, garage programmers are a thing of the past.

I mean hell, that one link I posted above showed that someone tried to sue the Linux foundation for floating point operations. They tried to claim ownership for basic freaking math. If they won, you wouldn't be able to program at all without paying Unilock a licensing fee.
I fail to see how someone can accidentally or unknowingly implement a complex algorithm. It's not like you can change 5 lines of code and have a new compression scheme. If you are working at that level you know that you're on the bleeding edge. If you plan on selling your invention, as with hardware you should ensure you aren't stepping on others toes before you bring it to market. That's just common sense.

With your suggestion garage programmers will disappear. Since you'd have no protection legally how are you going to convince an investor to back you or sell it to a company that can make use of it? You can't tell them how it works or they (corporations) will take their staff, reverse engineer your algorithm and steal it. Why bother paying royalties for something you can rip off without any legal ramifications?

To be frank I don't know what the right solution is. You can't throw away software patents without creating a host of other problems. Startup's cannot thrive without backing and protection against theft from those with more resources. It would breed a world of programmers who wouldn't talk to one another out of fear (bye bye Open Source).

Too much protection and you end up with the mess we have now. Obviously a lot of the software patents you see in these cases should never have been granted in the first place. It could be lack of knowledge at the patent office, lack of technical resources, I'm not sure.

The answer must lie somewhere in the middle. Hopefully someone can figure out a solution that works for both sides!
 
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The first integrated circuit. That would deserve a patent. Since then?

Intel doesn't have any patents on the specific circuit designs of a CPU, just certain additions and implementations of it (such as redundant CPU cores and whatnot). When you get down to it, an Intel x86 chip isn't vastly different from an AMD x86 chip, which isn't much different from an ARM chip. They're all basically the same thing.

And you could say the same thing about algorithms. They're all basically the same thing.

Look at recent Intel patents. None of them have anything to do with the current build of their processors. I don't even think their tri-gate transistors, which is their most recent innovation, is patent pending. They're all about materials used, or manufacturing processes.

I don't deny the fact that Creative was a total douche about it, and if there was prior art surrounding their shadow algorithm the patent should never have been granted in the first place.

That said, as the article stated Carmack's algorithm was not their algorithm. They were different algorithm's that accomplished the same thing. As I said earlier, he wanted to use their algorithm not his, and if you implement someone else's design they deserve to be paid for their work.

First of all, if his algorithm wasn't their algorithm, then that means they had a patent for the end result, which, as a programmer, you should be greatly against.

Second, he had no other choice in the matter. It wasn't a choice between him preferring their implementation of depth fail stencils, they were the same thing, it was that he had two choices.

Use a different, not nearly as efficient method (which was eventually used for the source code release).

Or

Accept their offer to use EAX to avoid a lawsuit.

I don't know where you're getting that he preferred Creative's method over his.

I fail to see how someone can accidentally or unknowingly implement a complex algorithm. It's not like you can change 5 lines of code and have a new compression scheme. If you are working at that level you know that you're on the bleeding edge. If you plan on selling your invention, as with hardware you should ensure you aren't stepping on others toes before you bring it to market. That's just common sense.

An algorithm as complex as a data compression scheme is better protected by copyright, since...like you said...you can't go in and change 5 lines and get something entirely new.

Anyone who wants to do a better compression scheme will have to start from scratch, and write all the code themselves from the bottom up. So with that in mind...why patent it? Why not just rely on copyright protection, which keeps people from looking at your source code and copying it for their own use? That's exactly what you want, right?

Like I said, software patents ultimately confuse the issue. No matter how much effort you put into your due diligence, if you make something that even remotely looks like someone else's patent, they'll have you in court proving that it's not the moment they first lay eyes on it. That costs money. A lot of it. Money most freelancers don't have.

With your suggestion garage programmers will disappear. Since you'd have no protection legally how are you going to convince an investor to back you or sell it to a company that can make use of it? You can't tell them how it works or they (corporations) will take their staff, reverse engineer your algorithm and steal it. Why bother paying royalties for something you can rip off without any legal ramifications?

Software developers managed to get by just fine before software patents become a thing in the 90's, and the EU doesn't allow software patents at all. Your copyrighted material, from the code itself to the graphics you use in your program, is more than enough to protect yourself from moochers.

Plus, unless you're working on an FOSS project, what are the chances of someone seeing your source code and ripping it off? If you make a successful program, someone would have to reverse engineer your work to make something similar, and chances are good their final product will be a great deal different than yours while still performing the same function. Which is totally legal.

If their product ends up being better than yours, well...that's life. You'll have to do something better yourself to keep ahead of the Jonses. If it's not, you still have the better piece of software, and you'll still make money off your hard work because of that.

But in a software patented world, you could still sue them because their end result looks similar to your end result, which costs both parties a ton of money. If you're a big corporation, that's not a big deal. If you're a little guy with a great idea, you're kinda screwed.

To be frank I don't know what the right solution is. You can't throw away software patents without creating a host of other problems. Startup's cannot thrive with backing, no protection against theft from those with more resources, and it would breed a world of programmers who wouldn't talk to one another out of fear (bye bye Open Source).

Too much protection and you end up with the mess we have now. Obviously a lot of the software patents you see in these cases should never have been granted in the first place. It could be lack of knowledge, lack of technical resources, I'm not sure.

The answer must lie somewhere in the middle. Hopefully someone can figure out a solution that works for both sides!

There isn't an easy answer, no. I personally believe everyone should be compensated for their hard work, and programming is definitely not an easy thing to do. But I also believe that people should only own their very specific implementation, not a generalized process of something that produces a specific output. The latter is something the patent system in its current state allows to let happen. And that, more than anything, will kill innovation.
 
...garage programmers will disappear. Since you'd have no protection legally how are you going to convince an investor to back you or sell it to a company that can make use of it?

Apple started in a garage with little more protection than copyright and trade dress (and not much of either) and yet they're doing fine.

I don't think NeXT filed more than a handful of patents, yet they were bought by Apple later on.

Not to mention all the other devices and applications out there during the 70s and 80s before we started to see software patents being accepted in the 90s.

Heck, just look at the one million apps in the app store now. How many of those have filed for any legal protection at all? A handful at most. And yet developers continue to churn out new apps.

It's all about implementation. Many people have the same idea. If a developer's implementation of an idea is superior, it will do fine.

--

That's one problem with software patents. Many of them are just ideas written in fancy language, and you're not supposed to be able to patent ideas. No detailed implementation algorithms. Apple is especially adept at getting such patents. I'll give some examples in a bit.
 
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