If I — and a lot of other people — don’t like Apple’s response on HK, I won’t buy, and they won’t get my money. Your high school teacher probably also taught you that money is sort of important for businesses.
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Apple 'Assessing' Hong Kong National Security Law as Other Tech Companies Pause Data Requests
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If I — and a lot of other people — don’t like Apple’s response on HK, I won’t buy, and they won’t get my money. Your high school teacher probably also taught you that money is sort of important for businesses.
CCP controls the narrative in China. Of course everything there is touted as great.
Don't drink the kool-aid.
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You got it almost right. but it's not Capitalists that "don't care". It is Globalists. They don't like capitalism as it gives too much freedom to the individual. You will find them sabotaging capitalistic market mechanisms all the time. They strive for China like totalitarian dictatorship, which is the contrary of capitalism. Just listen to them - it's always more government, less freedom and more taxes. They do not condone China, they admire them.
Chinese market. It’s as big, or almost as big, as US market. That’s why.
I can hear the raspy low-key voice in my heard everytime I read this.
I think this is on-point, I don’t really know the full scope of it, but it is my understanding that in the end most of the manufacturing done in China is low skill set final assembly? Something that could be moved probably to any non-China controlled mainlands? Yes, China is big, but maybe as Foxconn was toying with the idea of opening assembly lines in the US, they could open some in Taiwan, India, Greece, Egypt, etc. to sprinkle a few random all over the place locations.
I think the biggest hit would be losing the market there via a China knee-jerk product ban reaction because they could see moving assembly out of it as an ego hurting insult... to which the Apple products there would revert back to the dark days where there was this black market situation in the early days where Chinese people would produce phones with their own hands, not be able to buy them, then finding a way to snitch them back in with inflated prices.
I can't believe Tim hasn't thought of this already. Write to him. He needs you in his top team.
Or, use that brain of yours and consider that there's more to it than just a cheap workforce.
It took China 5 years of R&D to be able to build their own tips for ballpoint pens. Now consider the technology needed to make an iPhone (an industry which China, and cities like Shenzhen in particular, has been a part of and working on for 25+ years). The results of trying to move production to one of those countries you list with far fewer resources would be nothing short of a disaster.
There are also logistical/supply chain issues... it isn't just about the manufacturing. Honestly, the time to pull out of China was before they started manufacturing in China. It's now too late.
There are always some and a high enough number of people and politicians who don‘t draw lines between protestors, rioters and violent rioters, and sometimes even terrorists. I think that is what is criticized. People who treat peaceful and innocent protesters like criminals and trash. Heck, some people even treat trash better.
I get you, you obviously take it very personally and I admire your passion for it. When I was writing this message I was referring to how long the protests have been dragging on in HK, for over 6 months before the chinese got fed up. Yet in US, national guards was called in pretty soon.
But a quick note, don’t let your passion hold you back from having a sensible and calm discussion.
“Assessing?” Whats there to assess? Apple needs to take a stand against China’s crackdown in HK! They take a stand on EVERYTHING else. Why do they continually waffle when it comes to China? Apple is a Trillion dollar company. Probably one of the most powerful in the world. If they cannot speak out against China, what hope is there?
Whatever is good for the Chinese majority population, is good. Whatever that de facto makes their life more miserable is bad. The Chinese people I came across over the years are very pragmatic. If their lives are getting better, they know. If the US is helping them, improving their quality of life and business, they know. If it is the contrary, they bloody know it too. They know who to thank and who to despise.
Words like ‘courage‘ being bandied about for things like removing headphone jacks and disk drives or what have you from electronic devices is just beyond pathetic. I’m not getting at anyone on this forum, it’s Apple who marketed it this way.
It takes courage to stand up for what you believe in and speak out about injustices. It takes courage to fight and carry on after you or a loved one has been knocked down by illness. It takes courage to position yourself between your loved ones and your enemies. Courage. Not a word to be used lightly...
For such a privacy focused and liberal company, Apple bends itself over backwards for what is the antithesis of Apple’s supposed core beliefs - The Chinese Communist Party.
It takes courage to stand up for what you believe in and speak out about injustices. It takes courage to fight and carry on after you or a loved one has been knocked down by illness. It takes courage to position yourself between your loved ones and your enemies. Courage. Not a word to be used lightly...
For such a privacy focused and liberal company, Apple bends itself over backwards for what is the antithesis of Apple’s supposed core beliefs - The Chinese Communist Party.
Who says one company must give up data, but the others cannot, just due to the business model?
Even if both are in China?
Unless you physically destroy it yourself, China can request data from Apple,,, if they have offices there.If Apple refuses because they are in Cupertino,,, why should that automatically mean the office in China has to side with Apple ? Apple doesn't control the law in China. Thy can 'try' but they will fail.
Rather than fight against something you'll never win against, perhaps the best cause of action is just too pull out. Looks like China/Beijing have a got a strong foot in the ground.
Even if both are in China?
Unless you physically destroy it yourself, China can request data from Apple,,, if they have offices there.If Apple refuses because they are in Cupertino,,, why should that automatically mean the office in China has to side with Apple ? Apple doesn't control the law in China. Thy can 'try' but they will fail.
Rather than fight against something you'll never win against, perhaps the best cause of action is just too pull out. Looks like China/Beijing have a got a strong foot in the ground.
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I don't see why they want to stay in China, if cheap workforce they are after they exists in many countries. Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, just to name a few not to mention the whole of Africa that could really use the economic development.
so is India 1B citizens.
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I don't see why they want to stay in China, if cheap workforce they are after they exists in many countries. Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, just to name a few not to mention the whole of Africa that could really use the economic development.
Well fine, let him risk the whole Apple business by continuing to invest in toxic regime where a civil war might erupt any time, just because he does not want to put the effort to spread manufacturing to other countries.I am sure the current Uighur muslims issue, Hong Kong protests, Corona virus, continue efforts of mass surveillance will end up all good and well for Apple and their image in Europe and America.
so is India 1B citizens.
[automerge]1594189399[/automerge]
I don't see why they want to stay in China, if cheap workforce they are after they exists in many countries. Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, just to name a few not to mention the whole of Africa that could really use the economic development.
Well fine, let him risk the whole Apple business by continuing to invest in toxic regime where a civil war might erupt any time, just because he does not want to put the effort to spread manufacturing to other countries.I am sure the current Uighur muslims issue, Hong Kong protests, Corona virus, continue efforts of mass surveillance will end up all good and well for Apple and their image in Europe and America.
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I agree. China has many internal problems, and they know it too. The Chinese people know it as well. But what I don't like is the Western hypocrisy calling out China's problems, not for the benefit of China or Chinese interest, but instead, use them as bargaining chips or leverages against China diplomatically and in media. Those ill intentions are despicable.
When we suggest China to do certain things, ask if that's actionable and if weighing the pros and the cons and the risks, it will still be beneficial for China in the long-run.
China is not and has never exported its political system to the West, and they frequently say what works for China may not work for you, what works for you may not work well in China.
Well maybe if they move manufacturing to India, India's middl class will equal or surpass China's middle class. Don't create your own monster. I wish the Chinese people the best, but they have to figure their problems on their own.
I honestly do not wan to suffer because I can't find a spare part for my car, or replaceable battery for my iPhone because China is in the middle of ethnic cleansing some people. This is not a China issue, its "putting all your eggs in one basket", and all CEOs are doing it and taking the risk because they want to score that extra profit but things won't be good when issues start to arise just like in the Corona case.
For sure. For sure. I’ve always said there can’t be no business as usual with China ever since they started this police brutality in Hong Kong a year ago.
The question you need to ask yourself what exactly do you mean China is hostile to western values. You have seriously define what western values are before saying that. And don't just cherry pick the great parts of western values, you need to add ALL western values.
I'm gonna take a page out of Western media and cherry pick all the bad ones, lets see.
Lets look at China using "western values"
Does China have systematic racism towards a minority group? Sure, lets call it yes. Western values confirmed.
Does China operate over 800 military bases around the world to arbitrate their dominance? Nope. Needs to catch up to western values.
Does China have rampant uncontrolled consumerism? Yes. Western values confirmed.
Does China have impirialistic virtues that the west has held dominance over the last hundreds or so years? Possibly. At least not so far as overtly invading countries with a massive military force like all other western nations have done repeatedly. So again need to catch up to western values.
Does China have a open and free market to trade? Yes. Western values confirmed.
Does China manipulate its stock market, and if there is a collapse, ask the next largest economy to borrow money then blame immigrants, teachers and poor people and give massive handsouts to its bankers? Not yet, needs to catch up to western values
Does China exploit its workers to maximize profits for itself and the west? Yes. Western values confirmed.
Does China broadcast rampant amount of propaganda in the name of Hollywood movies glorifying Chinese conquests of sovereign nations? Not yet. Sorry, haven't reached Western values yet.
Does China send it their army (or "national guard") to supress protestors? Did so once, the world keeps reminding everyone of that incident, but not yet in HK. Western values not confirmed. (this is referring to the 17,000 national guard troops on the ground in the US during their protests)
Does China abuse their position of power to give countries unfavorable financing similar to what the IMF has done for decades? Possibly yes, remains to be seen, so lets call it western values confirmed.
Does China not care about its citizens and not offer universal health care? Not yet, but they are getting there! Privatization of healthcare in China is a huge movement. Western values coming close to being confirmed!
Does China want a strong military, and looking to spend more than the next 10 countries in military spending? They want it, but clearly not up to western values.
Does China use voter supression, and multiple ways to manipulate the vote so that big corporations get to win and thus give the average person little to no choice? Nope, they aren't at western values yet.
Does China have a monsterous "evil" entity to scare its citizens into doing things that are not beneficial for their own gain? Unfortunately no, they are starting to do it though. So unfortunately they haven't reached western values status.
Does China have an evil history of conquering sovereign nations, instilling their way of life, assimilating other cultures and murdering millions of innocent of other nations? Actually, hard to find any data on this... so sorry, this is hostile to Western values.
Does China have a history of false flag operations and proxy wars to justify its world wide campaign of spreading its influence? Not yet, so they still need to catch up to western values.
Does China run a world wide dragnet of listening posts that listen to every phone call since the early 60's? They wish they had! Western values unaccomplished.
Does China have one of the most fierce intelligence agencies that operate in other countries instilling rebellion and coupe detat on democratically elected officials (namely south america and middle east)? Unfortunately no, they're not up to western values yet.
I can go on, but I guess you see my point.
China isn't hostile to western values. What your call western values should be called Human ideals. Every country wants these human ideals, it's vastly beneficial to a country to implement humanistic ideals to continue being strong. Any country that doesn't understand the power of human ideals, doesn't want their country to be powerful.
Chinese leadership, at least the competent types, have realized that democracy, when it actually works, has massive upsides to dictatorship, that open markets are far better at distributing work than controlled markets, and that a modernized infrastructure helps a nation build its wealth faster than any old system, and that capitalism is an amazing tool to amass wealth for both the state and individuals.
Now the problem is implementing all of these properly, and without external infiltration and being blown to bits my the incumbent in power as many nations had experienced in the past. If you really understand China - you'll see that it's modernizing its economy in a very big way. Its latest plan is to try to open up its stock exchange, and open its market so that resoruces can be distributed based on market demands, but to stop manipluation by foreign powers that want to destabilize China. Another point they're trying to do is begin the small sets of democracy - democracy at the local levels - city and provincial are actually starting to work, people can choose to elect certain mayoral officials, and choose to kick them out if necessary, it's a small improvement that overtime can instill a sense of emplowerment to the Chinese people.
You should reword your sentences to - China is hostile to western hegemony. It's the reason why we are always told that Soviet Union were liars and fakes, and Chinese are liars and fakes. How evil are those countries... murdering millions in their past. How great we are, with our bloodless history. I wonder why every nation that challenges our dominance are liars and fakes?
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