Apple + Best Buy Update: Just A Pilot?

[kresh]

I find it interesting that most people see "Best" and "Buy" in the same sentence with "Apple" and automatically think that not only will whatever plan it is fail, but Apple's market share will instantly fall to negative percentage, all iPods will simultaneous explode, and every machine with OSX installed with have a kernel panic. Sorry, guys, not the case.

I'm an employee of Best Buy. I make way more than minimum wage. I know my department like the back of my hand (home theatre, that is). I'm not a pimply teenager. And, true, I don't see myself working for the Big Blue Box in ten years, but right now, I'm moving up in the company, and enjoying it. I like what I do, and what I sell. And I understand the stuff I sell because the company gives me a basic education on it, and what I can't find out from them I research myself.

You are most certainly the exception to the rule. This past weekend I just happened to stop by the BB store in Greensboro, NC. I was looking at the MP3 players. I was curious about the Sansa E200 series that SanDisk is promoting at idont.com.

There were 5 young people working in and around this section (none had keys to cabinets though). I asked one of them what was so great about the Sansa E250. He told me that it was really cool because it played MP3s that you could download off the net. He said that with the iPod you had to buy your music from iTunes and it would only play music bought from iTunes. I couldn't help but laugh.

I walked around the store for a while, kinda dumbfounded at what I had been told. I went back and asked a different employee in the MP3 players section about about the iPod and MP3s. I said "I heard the iPod won't play MP3s". He replied "Yep, you have to buy the music from Apple, they rip you off". I eventually asked everyone that I could get to stand still in that department. They all claimed that the iPod only plays music bought from Apple.

I find it hard to believe that potential Apple customers were not being deliberately targeted with mis-information. I can't even begin to imagine how Apple will be treated if this store ever stocks Macs.

 

[dubnluvn]

I have absolutely no confidence in Best Buy. Their staff is horrible. I remember way back in 98 when i got my first iMac they kept trying to tell me NOT to buy it. I can guarantee that they will provide nothing less than a horrible buying experience for anyone when it comes to buying a Mac. If I need to go to a big chain store for apple stuff I'll go to CompUSA whose apple staff has always impressed me by their knowledge and passion for Apple.

 

[neoelectronaut]

And this is exactly why I hate Best Buy.

Me: I'd like to buy this widget.
BB Employee: Great, would you like the Super-Duper Wow Warrenty?
Me: No.
BBE: But, with the Super-Duper Wow warrenty...
Me: I know. But, no.
BBE: But, that widget has this problem with the whazzit and it sometimes breaks off.
Me: You just told me this was the most reliable widget ever made.
BBE: <shrug>
Me: So, which is it then?
BBE: You need the warrenty.
Me: How much is it?
BBE: <rediculous number>
Me: That's more than this widget costs.
BBE: But, it's covered.
Me: I said no.
BBE: Okay, how about a year's subscription to Entertainment Weekly?
Me: <&$#)$#&>

This is the ONE thing I hate about working for CompUSA. Pushing the TAP plans. Don't get me wrong, for the most part, they're worth it, but still, the idea of asking the customer gets me nervous, because I know how most people think about it.

$25 on an Airport Extreme Base Station, and if it goes out in two years, you get a new $200 Base Station? Not a bad plan at all. Too bad most people don't seem to look at it that way.

Typically, I'll ask once, if they say no, I'll move on, and right before them getting rung up I'll ask a second time, just to make sure.

 

[TSEliotLives]

I said "I heard the iPod won't play MP3s". He replied "Yep, you have to buy the music from Apple, they rip you off". I eventually asked everyone that I could get to stand still in that department. They all claimed that the iPod only plays music bought from Apple.

I find it hard to believe that potential Apple customers were not being deliberately targeted with mis-information. I can't even begin to imagine how Apple will be treated if this store ever stocks Macs.

All I can say is: I know you are but what am I?!?

It's true, there's some real winners working in Best Buy. But, to be honest, the last time I was at the Mayfair Apple Store, I wasn't too impressed with their staff, either. Granted, all they sell is Macs, but when it comes down to it, I think both Apple branded retail and big box resellers have their positives and negatives.

Most of the people in my BBY store's digi/tech department are very, very smart, and know their stuff just as much as any Mac geek in these forums. Unfortunately, most of those very, very smart people (and this goes for the greater BBY world, outside of my store) have not been exposed to the wonders of the Mac, or remember them only as pizza-box machines they had in their gradeschools that ran SuperPaint and Oregon Trail.

The fact of the matter is, if Apple wants any chance at all to succeed in any retail environment outside of their own stores, they need to undergo a PR makeover that's going to go waaaay further than just having the Hilton sisters appear in Entertainment wearing rhinestone-studded iPods. People still think of Macs as toys, or MIDI machines that don't "do" the internet, and don't "do" office suites. I had one co-worker ask me recently if Apple still made computers. Is that Best Buy's fault, or Apple's?

I say, market share, schmarket share. The Mac is still very much a niche computing product, occupying the space in Joe Sixpack's mind somewhere between Windows code-trolls and Linux tar-ballers. Until the unwashed masses are either A) totally sick of being bent over by a rushed, swiss-cheese OS cobbled together with chewing gum, baling wire, and prayer, or B) Apple changes PR gears and finds a way to stop being clever and glossy and start giving people valid reasons to switch, the revolution will not only not be televised, but it may not happen at all.

The problem is not with Best Buy. The problem is that Apple is marketing the Mac to the wrong people: Mac users. We laugh at the new commercials. Soccer moms and steel mill workers who just want a computer that works think the same commercials are a joke.

Yes, some retail employees are morons. Yes, Best Buy might not be an ideal retail chain to latch on to (but honestly, what would you rather have? Best Buy, or Walmart?). But there is a lot that needs to change in the culture of the Mac if we'll ever see the day that a Best Buy employee shuns a Windoze machine only to sell the customer a MacBook. I look forward to that day, though.

 

[Billy Boo Bob]

Training, dude... Training.

But don't blame Best Buy if this falls through... product education is just as important on the vendor side as it is on the sales side.

My thoughts, exactly. I would hope that Apple has learned from past experiences in the various retail outlets. I've seen, over the years, the minimal exposure… the "token" Mac on the endcap… and the employees that didn't know squat about them. I don't remember exactly what years this was, but some of them (pre iMac days) were, I'm sure, when Steve Jobs was "on leave".

Hopefully now, though, they'll take the time to give BB employees a crash course on the Mac. Like he says… not the finer details… just the basics. Show them how to demo some features of the bundled software, etc. Educating the sales force is certainly important.

I'd be curious to hear from employees at the pilot stores. If any of you live near one of them, how about finding someone there working the Mac section and ask them stop by here and chime in… let us know what Apple did for them in the line of training. If Apple did them well, then maybe a first hand account would slow down some of the nay-sayers here.

I'd love to see it happen at our local BB… The nearest Apple store is hours away (Nashville or Memphis). Currently, our local BB doesn't carry any Macs (last I visited months ago).

 

[tigertrainer]

Ok, this is the only way it will work...

OK, this is the only way it would work: It MUST be financially advantageous for employees and managers in Best Buy stores to sell Apple products. Apple needs to set up a program where employees get a spif (incentive in a set dollar amount) set for each product sold. When employees know that they will get some cash for selling a Mac, you better believe they will push them. Even if these employees are bottom of the barrel stupid, they will either learn about the product or make stuff up about it to sell it. In the very least you will see the blatant bias disappear completely. Over night you will see Best Buy employees talking up Macs and maintaining the products. Even if when a customer chooses a winblows computer, you will see a Best Buy employee pushing an Apple display to go along with it so he can get the ten bucks or whatever spif. Apple also needs to make sure the push comes from the top, i.e. management. Management is ALWAYS motivated by their bonuses. If management gets a bonus for making their Mac quota, you better believe there will be 'sell Macs' pep talks on the sales floor. Furthermore, a$$ racket Best Buy has with their hard sell warranty program needs addressing. Apple needs to make AppleCare profitable for Best Buy as well, so the people in Best Buy's accounting department give the green light on profitability to upper management. This is all really simple. I do not understand why Apple doesn't get this. Yes, believe it or not, in some circles, there actually are no Mac enthusiasts and there never will be. Best Buy employs low talent and a lot of young high school boys who have windows computers and probably play games all day. They need a reason to sell Macs. Anyone who ever had a sh*t job in college selling something knows this. You sell what makes you money. I used to sell tools at Sears back when there were commissions on those items. We got 1% or 3% depending on the item. Guess which tool sets flew off the shelves? Of course, the ones earning 3%! We used to fight over selling them, just because they earned us an extra lousy few bucks. But when you are making $7 an hour, you can easily double your pay this way! And then on top of that, there would be the occasional spif on an item. At Sears, it would be just a buck or two for selling this hammer or that wrench or whatever. Holy crap they would be gone! In my waiter days, mangers would sometimes have a contest to see who sells the most special of the day, or this wine, or that dessert. Ever wonder why waiters seem to push some things? Anyway, my point is that it is all very simple and it's about money. Apple needs to get this because Best Buy sucks. It will be another reputation harming experience for Apple at Best Buy unless they do it this way.

 

[rickag]

OK, this is the only way it would work.... It will be another reputation harming experience for Apple at Best Buy unless they do it this way.

Good Post, thank you. But, how depressing.

 

[mccldwll]

Yes. Best Buy is bad. But, I think this is much more about the integrated home entertainment products in the pipeline than selling mac computers.

 

[rt_brained]

Most of the people in my BBY store's digi/tech department are very, very smart, and know their stuff just as much as any Mac geek in these forums.

Doubtful. While most BBY digi/tech employees could be as equally tech-savvy as any Mac geek here, it's far less likely that the BBY'ers utilize their computers to the extent that most proficient Mac users do. Arguably, the vast majority of PC geeks (BBY employees included) focus their computing energy as follows: 75% on gaming, 10% browsing the web, 5% on music downloads (legal & illegal), 5% writing/answering email and 5% blogging or building their MySpace site. The vast majority of said group has little or no proficiency in: creating/editing/posting their own movies, digital photo albums or creating and burning menu-based DVDs, proficiency in all of the MS Office apps., as well as QuarkXpress, InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Flash...the list goes on.

While most PC and Mac geeks have little trouble building and configuring networks and upgrading their machines, the vast majority of PC geeks don't know or use half the number software platforms that most Mac geeks do.

The fact of the matter is, if Apple wants any chance at all to succeed in any retail environment outside of their own stores, they need to undergo a PR makeover that's going to go waaaay further than just having the Hilton sisters appear in Entertainment wearing rhinestone-studded iPods. People still think of Macs as toys, or MIDI machines that don't "do" the internet, and don't "do" office suites. I had one co-worker ask me recently if Apple still made computers. Is that Best Buy's fault, or Apple's?

Honestly, it's hardly fair to blame Apple for any one person's ingnorance. The success of any Apple branded or non-Apple branded retail store relies heavily on the education of its salesforce. Apple doesn't outright tell consumers to buy their products only at Apple-owned retail stores.

I say, market share, schmarket share. The Mac is still very much a niche computing product, occupying the space in Joe Sixpack's mind somewhere between Windows code-trolls and Linux tar-ballers. Until the unwashed masses are either A) totally sick of being bent over by a rushed, swiss-cheese OS cobbled together with chewing gum, baling wire, and prayer, or B) Apple changes PR gears and finds a way to stop being clever and glossy and start giving people valid reasons to switch, the revolution will not only not be televised, but it may not happen at all.

Apple's been giving people valid reasons for years. The information has never been hard to find. Unfortunately, the message often falls on deaf ears.

The problem is not with Best Buy. The problem is that Apple is marketing the Mac to the wrong people: Mac users. We laugh at the new commercials. Soccer moms and steel mill workers who just want a computer that works think the same commercials are a joke.

Much of the problem IS with Best Buy. There are few qualifications for a salesperson at Best Buy outside of a general interest in home electronics. Best Buy is not and has never been interested in educating their employees on the products they sell, nor is Best Buy interested in educating them about how the products they sell actually work. It is largely the individual salesperson's reponsibility to educate themselves about the products they sell. As such, any preconceived ideas or opinions they bring with them affect their desire to learn and their ability to represent/sell the products on the floor.

The commercials? A joke? Is it a joke that Macs are easier to network across platforms and among devices than PCs? That the Windows OS is unstable? That there are 114,000 known viruses on the Wintel side and none for Macs? That Macs come bundled with tons more software? That WSJ's tech writer, Walt Mossberg, says that the Mac is the "...finest desktop PC on the market"?[/QUOTE]

Although, sometimes people laugh at the things that make them feel uneasy.

 

[technicolor]

As long as the Best Buy employees actually take five minutes to learn the main features of the machine before trying to sell me one... i'll be happy.

The apple employee store people cant even do this.

Ive sold several apple products in the store, helping their sales people.

 

[accelman]

iMacs in August?

I was just in a Best Buy in Kansas City two days ago and one of the salespeople said that they were going to be getting some inventory of iMacs come August. He also strongly implied that I wouldn't really need one unless I needed to do "Mac coding". What??? Also he said they're a lot like a Lotus -- same quality as a Mercedes or a BMW, but the parts are more expensive. What????????

 

[blitzkrieg79]

Ahhhh Best Buy stores, I have like 3 around my area, sales people know about their products as much as I know about quantum physics, but they do have great prices especially with rebates.

Once I asked them if a particular desktop computer offered an actual AGP card slot or were the graphics intergrated without any option to upgrade, took them like 40 minutes to answer this before I told them to just open up the demo computer so I can see the motherboard. Well at least they opened it up.

 

[Billy Boo Bob]

Apple's been giving people valid reasons for years. The information has never been hard to find. Unfortunately, the message often falls on deaf ears.

When the only messenger is the one that makes the product, that often happens. Word of mouth from other mere mortals goes a long way toward product endorsement. If BB folks can (and have some reason to) say something positive about a Mac, that can go a long way. Let's just hope there's some good training going on in this case.

 

[fblack]

I think increasing channels to sell mac products is good. Not everybody lives within 1hr commute of an apple store--I dont. Bestbuys seem to be everywhere I look. This could be a good thing. But as others have pointed out there are alot of hurdles involved to this being successful, namely bestbuys approach to retail and perhaps this is why its a pilot program.

Personally, I dont go into bestbuy anymore and dont buy any of their products. They are so aggressive with their sales, they are at times misinformed, and often purposely misleading just to make the sale. I'm quite fed up with them.

I hope apple can make this work in select locations across the U.S., the more outlets for their products the better, but they are going to need to get apple sales trainers to train some of those bestbuy people.

 

[jaydub]

I visited a Best Buy here in Vegas that has the Apple area set up. IMO it's not a good way to highlight Apple products. They have the machines set out for people to use, but when it comes to accessories they're all crammed in one small kiosk area and none are visibly labelled. Some even look like they're in OEM boxes. The other one is that they have the machines bolted down in a way that you can't straighten the monitor on a portable.

I've always preferred the setup at the Apple store here in Las Vegas because I can go use the machines, and even though the machines are anchored down, the security isn't so intrusive that I can't try the machine out and get a feel for it. The other part I didn't like was that the Apple section was thrown in right among the external hard drives and burners... right past all the PC computing section.

 

[spacehog371]

apple should just open up more apple stores... i can't believe ther was only one in nyc until a couple weeks ago.

 

[rt_brained]

When the only messenger is the one that makes the product, that often happens. Word of mouth from other mere mortals goes a long way toward product endorsement. If BB folks can (and have some reason to) say something positive about a Mac, that can go a long way. Let's just hope there's some good training going on in this case.

Hope, I will. But hasn't Apple already come and gone from the shelves of Best Buy something like...what is it, three times now? First was the Bondi Blue iMac (Rev. B), then nothing, then Mac Mini and iBook (?), then nothing, and now the Intel Macs.

I don't think BB gives a damn about the product or how it could breath excitement into an otherwise boring department at BB. In reality, it's strictly down to how many units are sold. Move 'em in, move 'em out.

BTW...Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that whenever you enter an electronics retailer that sells both Macs and PCs, half of the Macs are shut down or someone's come over and screwed with them so they don't appear to be working properly, while all of the Wintel machines around them are ON and working just fine.

I don't know how many times over the years I've walked past a "dead" Mac on prominent display (Best Buy, CompUSA, Micro Center, Fry's) and turned it back on.

 

[darkfro]

I don't know

I see this as good and bad. I live in between 2 apple stores both 35 minutes away in either direction one to the south and one up north. But that is still a 35 minute drive either way and the traffic is always bad. And one is in a mall and the other is at a busy shopping center. BB on the other hand is 10 min drive and all by itself. I say they should just get a certified apple guy in bb and all will be better. This apple guy should basically run the apple section alone and not have any bb staff helping.

 

[denn333]

Don't forget: TRAINING

Apple, if I understand correctly, has several trainers that do Apple Store training. They could, perhaps, support some train-the-trainer stuff with BestBuy and other large retail groups so that they do a better job preparing retailers to sell Apple products besides iPod better.

 

[fblack]

Hope, I will. But hasn't Apple already come and gone from the shelves of Best Buy something like...what is it, three times now? First was the Bondi Blue iMac (Rev. B), then nothing, then Mac Mini and iBook (?), then nothing, and now the Intel Macs.

I don't think BB gives a damn about the product or how it could breath excitement into an otherwise boring department at BB. In reality, it's strictly down to how many units are sold. Move 'em in, move 'em out.

BTW...Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that whenever you enter an electronics retailer that sells both Macs and PCs, half of the Macs are shut down or someone's come over and screwed with them so they don't appear to be working properly, while all of the Wintel machines around them are ON and working just fine.

I don't know how many times over the years I've walked past a "dead" Mac on prominent display (Best Buy, CompUSA, Micro Center, Fry's) and turned it back on.

Always was the case, in every store I ever walked into the macs were always sad or shut down and this is going back more than 10 years. Last time when apple had minis in bestbuy they were all screwed up.

 

[skwoytek]

Best Buy's Doing a Great Job - My Experience

I apologize for the sarcasm (and the camera phone pics). I went to the Best Buy in Mission Valley, San Diego, CA and told them I needed a computer because I just got a digital camera for my birthday. I want to use the internet, email, listen to music, watch movies, store my photos, put together slide shows and movies of my vacations with music, burn dvds and other fun stuff. After we decided I wanted a notebook and wanted to spend under $1500, I was shown a Toshiba. Next I was shown a Sony Vaio, because you can stick your camera's memory card in it... not mine by the way (Digital Rebel XT). I asked a few more questions like "how hard is it to make a website for my photos" and got no Mac love. Infact, we got nowhere near the Macs. After, I went to look at them alone - MY salesman never approached me, one did though.

He told me "You know, Macs now run on intel processors so they're a little better now." Except the one I was on (PowerMac), he mentioned, "it has their old processor." He did act excited to share his knowledge. I asked a few more questions but was quickly bored with his lack of knowledge. The way I figure, anyone who is in the Best Buy computer dept now is there because they may know a little about windows PCs. There was no Mac section when they were hiring them and I doubt if any have been taught to use a Mac.

So first we have the MacBook with no Dock. Seriously, you can't see it unless you are looking straight down the surface of the screen. If I didn't know better, I'd think the bar across the top was a misplaced Windows taskbar. Their anti-theft device ruins the experience.

See - 0606062033.jpg

The next best thing was the number of error messages I received. I tried to start aperture on their PowerMac. I received an error message - 1000MB of Memory not available. Sure enough the memory was 512 - Maybe I'll get in trouble someday... but I removed Aperture from the dock.

See - 0606062031.jpg

Another message read "no video device" for Photo Booth on a MacBook Pro, which was also set to Magnify and White on Black in the universal settings. I fixed the universal settings but I have no clue how to disable/enable the built-in isight. Someone did. None of the software was updated with system update so you received a message to upgrade each one as they were opened. I really felt like I was back on a Windows PC - everything I did invoked a system message. Their 23" screen required me to lift and slide the mouse three times to get from top to bottom - it felt so awkward. I increased the tracking speed just enough so that one movement would cover the desktop.

Good points: A large sign you almost run into as you walk in the store mentioned checking out the Macs and pointed to the Mac section. Also, it was a big and I'd say very nice display before you even reached the computers.

Also attached is a blurry pic of display for those who want to see...

 

[fblack]

great post

I apologize for the sarcasm (and the camera phone pics). I went to the Best Buy in Mission Valley, San Diego, CA and told them I needed a computer because I just got a digital camera for my birthday. I want to use the internet, email, listen to music, watch movies, store my photos, put together slide shows and movies of my vacations with music, burn dvds and other fun stuff. After we decided I wanted a notebook and wanted to spend under $1500, I was shown a Toshiba. Next I was shown a Sony Vaio, because you can stick your camera's memory card in it... not mine by the way (Digital Rebel XT). I asked a few more questions like "how hard is it to make a website for my photos" and got no Mac love. Infact, we got nowhere near the Macs. After, I went to look at them alone - MY salesman never approached me, one did though.

He told me "You know, Macs now run on intel processors so they're a little better now." Except the one I was on (PowerMac), he mentioned, "it has their old processor." He did act excited to share his knowledge. I asked a few more questions but was quickly bored with his lack of knowledge. The way I figure, anyone who is in the Best Buy computer dept now is there because they may know a little about windows PCs. There was no Mac section when they were hiring them and I doubt if any have been taught to use a Mac.

So first we have the MacBook with no Dock. Seriously, you can't see it unless you are looking straight down the surface of the screen. If I didn't know better, I'd think the bar across the top was a misplaced Windows taskbar. Their anti-theft device ruins the experience.

See - 0606062033.jpg

The next best thing was the number of error messages I received. I tried to start aperture on their PowerMac. I received an error message - 1000MB of Memory not available. Sure enough the memory was 512 - Maybe I'll get in trouble someday... but I removed Aperture from the dock.

See - 0606062031.jpg

Another message read "no video device" for Photo Booth on a MacBook Pro, which was also set to Magnify and White on Black in the universal settings. I fixed the universal settings but I have no clue how to disable/enable the built-in isight. Someone did. None of the software was updated with system update so you received a message to upgrade each one as they were opened. I really felt like I was back on a Windows PC - everything I did invoked a system message. Their 23" screen required me to lift and slide the mouse three times to get from top to bottom - it felt so awkward. I increased the tracking speed just enough so that one movement would cover the desktop.

Good points: A large sign you almost run into as you walk in the store mentioned checking out the Macs and pointed to the Mac section. Also, it was a big and I'd say very nice display before you even reached the computers.

Also attached is a blurry pic of display for those who want to see...

Great post! Apple should hire you as a troubleshooter to go around and check how the pilot program is running.

If this is how its running they are going to need some work, someone has to learn how to get the macs running again after they've been screwed with. I never see the PCs screwed up. Its probably the work of some lone dweeb holed up in the mountains with a grudge against all things apple.

On the positive side that apple sign looked pretty good.

 

[whoooaaahhhh]

Shut Up!

Can everyone just please for one second pretend to have some kind of unbiased view?

I worked for Best Buy this past summer, and while it wasn't a fantastic job it really wasn't that bad either. Best Buy educates their staff quite well and there are store wide meetings every month. Best Buy doesn't sell on commission, they sell to meet storewide sales goals. Because of this it doesn't matter what you sell a customer, you are taught to sell the customer the item that they want, not the one that they SHOULD HAVE, you're not sold, BBY is about the customer relationship. I know many of you have had bad experiences but GIVE ME A BREAK! Best Buy is the number one electronics retailer in the country for a reason, they're a lot better than the rest.

THE APPLE STORE CANNOT BE COMPARED TO A BEST BUY STORE!

Apple only sells their products, and they don't have very many, so it's easy to know like 5-7 computers, sometimes only 2 or 3 depending on what store you work at. When I worked at Best Buy selling cameras I had to know about over 50 cameras and the PC people had to know about selling 25+ Laptops and 20 something desktops.


PEOPLE NOT KNOWING ABOUT APPLE'S PRODUCTS IS APPLE'S FAULT ALONE!

Any real business person will tell you that the creator of a product has FULL RESPONSIBILITY for their product's survival in the market. Quality, Price, and PR are all the responsibility of the creator. THEY ARE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE!

MARKET YOUR PRODUCT BETTER, APPLE!
DON'T APPEAR SO PRETENTIOUS!
TRY TO MAKE REAL BUSINESS SOLUTIONS!

Then you'll hear about Macs in an electronics store, when people have something to talk about.

 

[jaydub]

Can everyone just please for one second pretend to have some kind of unbiased view?

I worked for Best Buy this past summer

So much for an unbiased view...

 

[whoooaaahhhh]

Haha True

So much for an unbiased view...

Ok, maybe I should have rephrased that, haha. I meant not Apple biased. Definitely not the same.