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Apple Bumps UK Prices as VAT Rises

A question that hopefully will get you to think

For everyone (no need to answer if you don't want - this is a "thought" question):

Regarding taxes, at what point do you say "that is enough, big brother. You've crossed a line and are now taking too much of our money?"

I'm not referencing any one tax - factor in all the taxes you pay.
 
jc1350 said:
Regarding taxes, at what point do you say "that is enough, big brother. You've crossed a line and are now taking too much of our money?"
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The problem I have is BS waste that goes on WITH the tax dollars. (in the US) I hear about rampant Medicare fraud (and seeing the system myself, I Can believe it), lavish benefits, contractor fraud b/c of little oversight, waste 'just because' , social security (don't get me started on social security).

I say, 'Big Brother, you've lost sight of your primary function to service the commonwealth and it's time to put an end to it'.

But I know what happens when someone tries to cut spending :(
 
irun5k said:
My point is, where does it stop? Has it ever went down? Is there a "hard cap"? With very few exceptions, taxes are continually on the rise- the growing tax base and deficit spending are insufficient to cover the disproportionate growth of governments, so taxes go up. I ask again, when does it stop? When is enough enough? In a couple of years it will be 22%. By the time your kids grandkids are paying VAT, what will it be? 40%?
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Here in Sweden VAT started out at a few percent in the 60's, and hit 25% in 1992. EU has set a maximum VAT level of 25% for member states; that's what keeps our politicians from raising it further.

Regardless of what one thinks of taxes in general, I much prefer a value-added tax over a US-style sales tax. Everyone pays VAT on all purchases (simple), but business reclaim the VAT on purchases. Hence the name "value-added" tax.
 
Bakerman said:
Here in Sweden VAT started out at a few percent in the 60's, and hit 25% in 1992. EU has set a maximum VAT level of 25% for member states; that's what keeps our politicians from raising it further.

Regardless of what one thinks of taxes in general, I much prefer a value-added tax over a US-style sales tax. Everyone pays VAT on all purchases (simple), but business reclaim the VAT on purchases. Hence the name "value-added" tax.
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If only VAT was that simple!!!

The complexity and stupidity of some VAT and exVAT items is easily summed up in the good old Jaffa Cake debacle.

McVities (makers of Jaffa Cakes) were being charged VAT. UK Government had classed Jaffa Cakes as biscuits. In the UK, biscuits have VAT and cakes do not.

McVities were not happy and took the case to court. McVities won the argument by simply pointing out that, when stale, cakes go hard and biscuits go soft.

Go to any supermarket and you will normally find Jaffa Cakes next to........ you guessed it.... other biscuits.

Then there is the utterly ridiculous hot-food scenario.

If a petrol station sells you a cold pie there is no VAT. If the petrol station heats it up for you BEFORE selling it to you..... VAT applies.

If they sell it to you cold, and provide heating equipment (microwave) for YOU to heat it up.... no VAT!!!!

Ridiculous!!!
 
SimonTheSoundMa said:
No we don't. We still use First Past The Post, and still couldn't get a majority party to win the election. :rolleyes:

Not representative at all.
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First Past The Post is still a form of representative government. I think the word you're looking for is "Proportional".
 
fixmymac said:
McVities (makers of Jaffa Cakes) were being charged VAT. UK Government had classed Jaffa Cakes as biscuits. In the UK, biscuits have VAT and cakes do not.

McVities were not happy and took the case to court. McVities won the argument by simply pointing out that, when stale, cakes go hard and biscuits go soft.
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Nearly right – McVities classed them as cakes and hadn't been paying VAT, so HMRC summoned them to court to get the money they said they were owed as the delicious snacks were clearly biscuits. Had Mcvities lost the case, the bill they would have faced in unpaid tax would be huge.

This is because that under UK law biscuits and cake aren't VAT-rated – but chocolate covered biscuits are, as they're then classed as a 'luxury' product.

McVities had to do a bit more than point out the stale/soft angle – for example, the ingredients and manufacturing process were looked at by the court. But they did indeed win the case, and to this day Jaffa Cakes are VAT free. Which is a good job for MacRumors – if arn was charged VAT every time I posted here his tax bill would be huge. :eek:

With the hot/cold food thing you mention, the distinction here is that – by heating the food for you – the shop is essentially providing you with a service. If you heat it up yourself though, they've not provided said service. I've just checked that with Mrs Cake, a tax inspector. ;)
 
KnightWRX said:
Except for the fact that pre-VAT, Apple prices are higher in the UK than the US after currency exchange. In a sense, they are already making higher margins in the UK than the US and that is an incessant source of whining by our British folk on the forum.
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Hear, hear! Same in The Netherlands. They (Apple) could let go of the EXTRA margins here but I'm affraid that they cannot afford it. $51 billion in the bank is not enough for that :rolleyes: And why should they? We buy the products anyway and they know it! :rolleyes: Besides, Apple always has favoured its home market.
 
jc1350 said:
For everyone (no need to answer if you don't want - this is a "thought" question):

Regarding taxes, at what point do you say "that is enough, big brother. You've crossed a line and are now taking too much of our money?"

I'm not referencing any one tax - factor in all the taxes you pay.
Click to expand...

That's not a responsible statement to make unless you're also prepared to identify and argue for the savings you want your government to make.

Which education budgets do you want to cut? Which defence programs do you want to stop (and see factories close and lay off workers). Which health programs do you no longer want to fund (and see people die by denying expensive medicines)?

It's easy to blame the politicians, but they're caught between public saying 'spend more' and those same people calling on them to 'take less'. The only way for them to 'succeed' is to keep borrowing.

This UK tax rise is from a UK government trying to spend less, tax a little more and borrow a lot less. It's actually responsible behaviour for a change and I support it.
 
Jaffa Cake said:
Nearly right – McVities classed them as cakes and hadn't been paying VAT, so HMRC summoned them to court to get the money they said they were owed as the delicious snacks were clearly biscuits. Had Mcvities lost the case, the bill they would have faced in unpaid tax would be huge.
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Jaffa_Cake...

Is a huge picture of a Jaffa Cake beamed into the sky in Hull whenever there's a Jaffa Cake based question on the forums that requires an answer?

Do you have to don any special clothing in order to answer said question?

Inquiring minds want to know! :D
 
... and then there's the case of Pringles (2008) being VAT exempt because its not classified as a crisp but more of a biscuit or cake. Gotta love UK law sometimes.
 
firestarter said:
Jaffa_Cake...

Is a huge picture of a Jaffa Cake beamed into the sky in Hull whenever there's a Jaffa Cake based question on the forums that requires an answer?

Do you have to don any special clothing in order to answer said question?
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No special light signals, and although I do occasionally wear special clothing that's just between me and Mrs Cake, thank you very much...
 
DaBrain said:
They sure do and WE are FOOLS if we let them!

20%! Like in 1/5th of additional product purchase price! Crazy!

So we here in the US think that Obama Care and all other liberal Free programs really are free. Well take another look folks at what that Free deal really costs, whether its health care or the thousands of other entitlements the liberals pass out with our tax money just to buy off your vote and to top it off, they do it with your money! :rolleyes::(
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DaBrain said:
That sounds like a plaque I saw on a bathroom wall which stated, " If ya can't dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with BS! "

Call it what you will will, but it still adds an additional 20%. ;)
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I don't think you've grasped the progressive nature of the British tax system, thus how both VAT and income tax can exist together.

Income tax is on a sliding scale. This means those who earn the least pay no income tax whatsoever, the next band pay 20%, the wealthy pay 40% and the super-rich (earning over £150k p.a.) pay 50%. It's important to note that each of the rates are only applied for income in the respective band. As a very simple example, if someone earns £10k in financial year 11-12, they will not pay any income tax on the first £7475 and taxed at 20% on the remaining £2525. This method applies to all the bands in the same way, so the super-rich only pay the 50% rate on their earnings above £150k, 40% on earnings between £35k & £150k, etc.

VAT is applied at a flat rate for most end-user sales ... so how is it progressive? The rich buy more expensive stuff and more of it; an Apple computer (or a few of them) over a Dell, an iPhone over a Nokia 5110, etc. Those on middle- to-low incomes are more frugal by necessity so end up paying less VAT than those on high-incomes. In addition to this, there's a wide array of goods that have a lower rate of VAT at 5% (domestic heating fuel & electricity) and some are completely exempt (food, children's clothes, products to assist people with a disability).

I'm not under any illusion that it's a perfect tax system, such a thing cannot exist, but i do support the notion that those with the broadest shoulders should bare the greatest burden. The end result of such progressive taxation is the ability of the state to provide programmes like the NHS, which for all its failings (accumulating too many middle-managers and the use of insane PFI contracts (thank you labour)) is free at the point of use for everyone, rich or poor, and provides an genuinely excellent service when you need it most. While the NHS gets its share of bad-press and it can be improved but I can guarantee that the people in the UK would never want to see the back of it.
 
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I did a quick comparison with the US Apple Store prices + 20% and UK Apple Store, then used ConvertBot App on the iPhone to calculate the equivalent cost in $'s to illustrate how much Apple gouge UK customers.

Regardless of what our own government are doing, Apple's prices are so heavily marked up, it's like adding the cost of an iPod Nano to every Mac in their range, just to compensate Apple for tiny fluctuations in the exchange rate.

Absolutely disgusting and why I always get a refurb or go the eBay route.

The only New item I've ever bought was my iPhone and that was heavily subsidised by the 2 year mobile contract that usually leaves me with over half my available minutes and texts left unused at the end of the month.
 

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Hey I work for the NHS in the UK and i get a discount from Apple for all my products from their store. Pretty much wipes the VAT increase from apple out for me.
 
miniroll32 said:
Apples stock is worth over £300 billion, yet they can't even absorb the VAT increase? Nice one. I remember it was 6 years ago that you could a white MacBook for a reasonable £670 - Now its £867!
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Their stock value has no relation to the amount of money they have, or make
 
thank god i bought my iMac in August :D

(p.s. I had WAY more to say than that but the site, or my browser, spazzed and the post didn't submit. seriously can't be bothered to type that out all over again.)
 
Optimus Frag said:
This isn't Apple's fault. It's the ConDem coalition government's fault. Thank you Chancellor Osbourne while you're swanning off on your £8000 ski holiday. Bet he made sure that was paid off before he increased the tax.
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Optimus Frag said:
Yes, because the Prime Minister of one country was COMPLETELY responsible for the WORLD wide recession that hit everyone.

It had nothing to do with multi-national, multi-billion banks gambling on sub-prime loans, nothing to do with traders speculating wildly on oil, gas and grain, nothing to do with all governments (including our own so you don't think I'm being biased) ignoring the irresponsible and reckless manner in which those institutions conducted business as long as the corporate tax revenue kept pouring in, nothing to do with the fact that when these people messed up, couldn't hide it anymore and they went hat in hand begging for governments and tax-payers to bail them out. If we were a truely capitalist society, we would have just let them go to the wall as all other failing companies should and do. But because they had become such an intrinsic part of economies we had to bail them out. And were going to paying for it for a long time to come...

But all of that was one mans fault so we can just blame him and not blame ourselves for failing to hold to account those institutions by allowing ourselves to continuously to vote in weak willed politicians held in thrall by the power of multi-national corporations and lacking the backbone and courage of conviction to say NO to them when they should.

When it comes to shirking responsibility perhaps it might be a good idea for everyone to look in a mirror and ask it was really a good idea to buy a lot of stuff we couldn't afford, using credit that wasn't ours. I'm guilty of that in the past (not now, got rid of my credit cards years ago, I only buy what I can pay for), I'm sure you've been guilty of it and I'm sure most of us have been in the past. When you look at yourself, ask that and answer truthfully, then you know what responsibility is.
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So, to be clear, it wasn't Labours fault, for all the reasons you give, but it is The Conservatives fault, who had been out of power for 14 years.

Nice logic.
 
The VAT/price increase being passed onto the consumer was inevitable, obviously. We do however, get totally ripped-off in the UK for Apple products. Always have done, always will.

Still, a few pounds more won't stop me buying my dream MacBook Pro later this year..... :cool:
 
barkmonster said:
I did a quick comparison with the US Apple Store prices + 20% and UK Apple Store, then used ConvertBot App on the iPhone to calculate the equivalent cost in $'s to illustrate how much Apple gouge UK customers.

Regardless of what our own government are doing, Apple's prices are so heavily marked up, it's like adding the cost of an iPod Nano to every Mac in their range, just to compensate Apple for tiny fluctuations in the exchange rate.

Absolutely disgusting and why I always get a refurb or go the eBay route.

The only New item I've ever bought was my iPhone and that was heavily subsidised by the 2 year mobile contract that usually leaves me with over half my available minutes and texts left unused at the end of the month.
Click to expand...

Case in point. I guess someone has to pay for shipping those pesky little units over the pond.....? :rolleyes:
 
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