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Apple Calls FBI Comments on Lack of Help Unlocking Florida Shooter's iPhone an 'Excuse to Weaken Encryption'

McScooby

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2005
772
398
The Paps of Glenn Close, Scotland.
You should read articles before you post them. That article has zero relevance to this discussion.

Yeah, same medicine, I've googled it & copied it, read it, anything else?!🤣

"In November 2018, Ian Levy, the technical director of GCHQ’s National Cyber Security Centre, proposed that tech companies send a copy of encrypted messages when requested following a warrant to spy agencies, a technique known as the “ghost protocol”.

That was rejected six months later by a group of technology companies, including Apple and Whatsapp, which said it would risk misleading users because it would secretly turn “a two-way conversation into a group chat where the government is the additional participant”.

Parker’s return to the fray demonstrates how concerned security agencies are about the issue, and comes after the controversy generated by the Edward Snowden revelations, in which UK and US spy agencies were forced to admit how far they had been able to gain access to older communicationtechnologies."
 
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CarlJ

macrumors 603
Feb 23, 2004
5,108
8,598
San Diego, CA, USA
Excellent statement by Apple. It’s crazy that the FBI would publicly say something so negative about Apple meanwhile Apple helps them in so many ways.
It’s not just that they’re saying negative things, it’s that the FBI is outright lying: saying “Apple is not helping us” is a lie. Saying “Apple is not helping us quite as much as we want” would be more truthful, but wouldn’t be as beneficial to the narrative the FBI is pushing.
 
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DVD9

macrumors 6502a
Feb 18, 2010
778
483
Sure MI5 aren't calling out Apple specifically like the FBI do, but what is

"MI5 head wants 'exceptional access' to encrypted communications"

other than anything but a backdoor? (6 mins on
)

I'm reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

It's much worse than I thought.

Look at all those third world countries. We know they don't have the ability to hack into encrypted Apple devices so why have they not been screaming about Apple refusing to open phones and Macbooks for them? Certainly they would have been screaming on the floor of the United Nations many years ago.

What about the thousands of child porn traffickers just in the USA alone? Certainly many would have been raided over the years and the police agencies confronted with encrypted Apple devices they could not access.

"Apple doesn't care about children!"
 
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McScooby

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2005
772
398
The Paps of Glenn Close, Scotland.
I'm reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

It's much worse than I thought.

Look at all those third world countries. We know they don't have the ability to hack into encrypted Apple devices so why have they not been screaming about Apple refusing to open phones and Macbooks for them? Certainly they would have been screaming on the floor of the United Nations many years ago.

What about the thousands of child porn traffickers just in the USA alone? Certainly many would have been raided over the years and the police agencies confronted with encrypted Apple devices they could not access.

"Apple doesn't care about children!"

So what's your point?

The original post was about the FBI screaming that they can't get access to apple devices & you quoted that no-one including MI5 (Although it's SIS I'd be more worried about) have done so.

I've linked to a factual 'live' interview (not re-reported) where the outgoing Director General (ex-Top Dog) of MI5 is specifically asking for "exceptional access to encrypted communications" (Apple included).

As I asked you earlier what is "exceptional access" other than a backdoor?

Just because they're not shouting from the rooftops and calling out Apple publicly doesn't mean they don't share the same sentiment as the FBI, maybe they're just a wee bit more "British" in their approach after all, it is the British Security Service, name kind of gives it away!;)

As for kiddie porn etc. How can you be sure what the Police did or did not do?

Remember you called me out as being not relevant, all you've done is linked to wikipedia and inferred certain scenarios with just an opinion, just sayin'!
 
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russell_314

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2019
1,937
2,568
USA
This is more of the same BS. Governments want to take away our freedoms and rights and say it's to "protect" us. It doesn't matter if your government is the USA, Germany, China, or any place in between. Don't think because you live in ____ great country that it's not like that because you're country is better than _____ country.
 
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The Barron

Contributor
Mar 5, 2009
524
428
Central California Coast
So how did the FBI gain access to the phone and how can Apple say their phones and laptops are protected if the FBI could gain access without a backdoor?
How do we even know they are being truthful? The president is a habitual liar.
[automerge]1589843044[/automerge]
Possibly from a gray box.
IF they really did gain access! This could be another Trump smokescreen.
[automerge]1589843111[/automerge]
I like Barr but I'm 100% with Apple on this one. Do not weaken encryption for everyone else.
You lost me at liking Barr. Really! He's Trump's puppet NOT the AG for this country as his title states. Boo
 
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DoctorTech

macrumors 6502a
Jan 6, 2014
687
1,508
Indianapolis, IN
Maybe Director Wray should ask Apple to help the FBI find the missing 302 form from General Michael Flynn's White House interrogation on Jan 24, 2017. I'm talking bout the original, undoctored one that the FBI "can't find". Apple could have searched Peter Strzok and Lisa Page's government issued cell phones if the FBI had not destroyed evidence by wiping their devices.
 
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michaelsviews

macrumors 65816
Sep 25, 2007
1,283
285
New England
I'm reading this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

It's much worse than I thought.

Look at all those third world countries. We know they don't have the ability to hack into encrypted Apple devices so why have they not been screaming about Apple refusing to open phones and Macbooks for them? Certainly they would have been screaming on the floor of the United Nations many years ago.

What about the thousands of child porn traffickers just in the USA alone? Certainly many would have been raided over the years and the police agencies confronted with encrypted Apple devices they could not access.

"Apple doesn't care about children!"
Child porn, how about Children period. How about Jeffery Epstein ? How about his black book or records of other MEN that flew with him? Kinda went off topic, but I think you get the idea
 
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briloronmacrumo

macrumors 6502
Jan 25, 2008
488
302
USA
Law enforcement's need for device access and Apple's desire/quest to keep devices safe are both understandable and reasonable. How to honor the former without compromising the latter is a difficult issue.

Unmentioned is: Apple's ethics are much more flexible when large sums of money are involved; concessions to China to do business there are documented and/or assumed, and if China says "give us access to Apple devices or you're out", their security stance, at least in China, will adapt to China's needs IMO. If Apple were honest about their business ethics/practices, I'd still purchase their products. I'm not aware of all the details, so I could be wrong, but granting human rights concessions to China while extoling the virtues of not allowing a backdoor leaves me less than sanguine about Apple's veracity.
 
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DoctorTech

macrumors 6502a
Jan 6, 2014
687
1,508
Indianapolis, IN
Having possession of a terrorist's iPhone and demanding that it be unlocked... Not a lot of distance between that and using the same tool to perform surveillance. Recent (underreported) events prove that our Federal agencies will go to great lengths to undermine our liberties while using their powers illegally, and lying about it.

Trust them? Not as far as I can throw them.
A fraction of a percent of private gun owners misuse firearms and countless politicians want guns either banned outright or at least heavily restricted. But when law enforcement officers and agencies abuse their power, those same politicians want to give law enforcement even more power. Either "punish" the whole group for the actions of a few or only punish the offenders but at least pretend to be consistent.

Brennan, Clapper, Comey, McCabe, Ohr, Page, Power, Rice, Rosenstein, Schiff, Strzok, and Yates are just a dozen of the reasons I don't support giving more surveillance tools to anyone.
 
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mzeb

macrumors regular
Jan 30, 2007
138
119
I understand Apple’s marketing position here, but it is only a matter of time before a country goes rogue on Apple and mandates a back door or decryption. The reality of it is that this is a losing battle in the long run for Apple somewhere in the world...whether that be in the USA or China. The battle has already been lost for warrant disclosure of iCloud data after all, local data is the next obvious step for warrants

It is more than a marketing position. It is a belief of privacy and protection of one’s personal business. The current belief that no one, even those who manage the data, should be able to access it is the only war people can trust cloud products.

That said, you’re right. Some day a country will make the demand of a back door law and I’m curious how Apple will react.

My hope is that they choose to pull their products from that country. Can you imagine if all the iPhone users in a country were suddenly unable to get apple’s latest shiny thing? That law would get repealed so fast :)
 
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FrankieTDouglas

macrumors 68000
Mar 10, 2005
1,532
2,653
Apple does so good in protecting phone access privacy sometimes, and then also builds health tracking software for government usage, right into the OS itself.
 
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WoodpeckerBaby

macrumors 6502a
Aug 17, 2016
708
578
Stop the PR crap on the surface and just bring full end-to-end encryption to all iCloud services.

Apple just puts up that hypocrisy PR effort, and, under the hood, they mesh along very well with the US Intelligence Community.
 
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jinnj

macrumors 6502
Dec 9, 2011
384
241
I don't know what a "gray box" is but if the FBI can gain access than Apple's statements about security are nonsense and their products can be hacked into after they are stolen.
No you are just mis-informed. Software has flaws and companies sell services (devices) to allow access to phones using those flaws. Apple has been patching them as they are discovered. Essentially bricking these devices which now have a hefty buy-in price with an annual renewal fee so they can continue to update their software (aka pay the real hackers for flaws they discover)
 
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ulyssesric

macrumors regular
Oct 7, 2006
215
176
If so that would make any data stored on a personal device effectively redundant since they already monitor all network traffic, and they have the tools to decrypt said traffic if necessary.

Not defending for these alphabet organizations but it's virtually impossible. SSL/TLS are designed to ensure end-to-end encryption and protect data from being peeped or altered by any man-in-the-middle. Theoretically the encryption suites used in generic SSL/TLS connection is not unbreakable, but to break it in any meaningful time, i.e. before the end of this millennium, you need a huge scale quantum computer that is still beyond the level human technology.
 
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ajguckian

macrumors regular
Aug 9, 2012
114
135
Hudson Valley
I'd hope the DOJ would try to get this type of information/acess, just as I'd hope that Apple would respond this way. They are literally helping each other out. DOJ knows they are more than likely going to be able to get the information they need, Apple gets to show us how they are fighting the man.

It's a money play for both of them.

Also, lol to the TDS guy above. This is in no way an issue to pin on any administration, they are all the same.
 
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lostngone

macrumors 65816
Aug 11, 2003
1,399
3,293
Anchorage
So how did the FBI gain access to the phone and how can Apple say their phones and laptops are protected if the FBI could gain access without a backdoor?

A better question is did the FBI then notify Apple about this undocumented vulnerability it used to exploit the phone?

The answer to that is no. Our own government is hiding security vulnerabilities.
 
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Shirasaki

macrumors G4
May 16, 2015
10,282
4,110
Nowadays I just assume every government has full access of every piece of data I generate until I die. Every major country in the world has established a comprehensive surveillance program to monitor their citizens.

As for the backdoor, somewhere on ZDNet says iOS 13 exploits are way too many, that the company receiving those exploits lower the price tag of certain types. If iOS 13 already has so many exploits, why FBI somehow cannot access a password protected device while third party company can, even with limited extents?
 
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