Apple can make new iOS updates better!

Discussion in 'iOS 9' started by Shirtin, Oct 3, 2015.

  1. Armen macrumors 604


    Apr 30, 2013
    Los Angeles
    Love how the poll makes no mention as to what iPhone poll takers are using. I'm willing to bet the 36% are using an iPhone 4S or iPhone 5.
  2. DoctorFedora macrumors regular

    Jun 8, 2010
    Every update will always have people claiming some sort of performance hit (regardless of whether one even actually exists), especially during the first day, while it's doing stuff in the background at first to clean up and set the table for the new major revision of the OS.

    This idea is an objectively terrible idea. Apple constantly talks about how important it is and how proud they are to maximize fast adoption of the newest versions of their operating systems. Adding a pointless roadblock to adoption, undermining this, would make everything worse for everybody: users, who would be suddenly inconvenced and/or angered, as well as developers and even Apple themselves, who would have to support devices running on older software without major new features or APIs.
  3. _Refurbished_ macrumors 68000


    Mar 23, 2007
    Isn't iOS 9 supposed to speed up older devices with improved performance? I'd say it's still relevant, since every phone that's compatible with iOS 9 should have received a speed boost.
  4. iModFrenzy macrumors 6502a


    Jan 15, 2015
    Our actions define our legacy
    My 4S used to run iOS 6 a few days ago, after hearing iOS 9 was better on the 4S than 8 I decided to make the jump.

    I now use a Galaxy S4 because it is so unusable.

    •can't even get past the lockscreen without lag
    • battery drains

    Did the complete opposite...
  5. Abazigal macrumors G4


    Jul 18, 2011
    The main problem Apple faces is that of time, that they literally bit off more than they could chew for iOS 7 (where they basically overhauled the entire look of the OS) and iOS 8 (where they had to push out features like extensions, widgets and handoff to make the Apple Watch work, and that meant delaying features like Apple Pay and icloud Photo library). Throwing more money at the problem is not going to fix this, no more than 9 women and all the money in the world still can't let you produce a baby in 1 month.

    There is also no link between money and intelligence. I can easily fork out $10 to update my OS, it doesn't mean I am a tech-savvy user who knows what I am getting to, it just means I have $10 to spare. I can be a tech savvy user who refuses to update because I don't think the features are worth $10, or simply because I am that stingy.

    Keeping as many people on the latest OS is crucial for Apple, since it improves the security of the platform overall and makes it easier for developers as they don't have to keep supporting so many past versions).

    I basically see no correlation between the problem you are pointing out and the solution you are proposing. Are you being serious, or is this a joke post just to see how many people you can troll?
  6. Shirtin thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 21, 2015
    I just remember the old times when people paid money to upgrade to a new operating system. Yes not every operating system was good just because it cost money but it made people think and research. Now since it's all free everyone wants to upgrade for no reason at all. Apple and Google on the other hand have really no incentive to make the new releases polished and refined. These two operating systems control almost all the market share so there is no lost sales. Google' lollipop is riddled with bugs and so is iOS 8 and iOS 9.

    I personally have an Air 2 and have owned iPad 3 and 4. IOS 6 was very polished and reliable compared to iOS 8. This free model can only go on for so long otherwise what real incentive does Apple and Google have to making the software good? You say switch but both Apple and Google have locked down their ecosystems making it annoying and hard to switch. Those that switch also have a high probablilty of going back. It seems clear that if Google's marshmallow is riddled with bugs then this model (free operating systems) doesn't work.
  7. Abazigal macrumors G4


    Jul 18, 2011
    Apple has every incentive to make the release polished and refined. Apple's profits come from hardware, and so they have every incentive to keep me, the customer happy so that I will continue to shop from them. Yes, their profits come from hardware, but when I pay that price, it comes with the expectation of continued and timely software support, an integrated computing solution which just works right out of the box, and a seamless and hassle-free user experience.

    Software can never be 100% bug-free. If you are trying to insinuate that Apple is acting the way out of complacency and laziness, then you could not be more wrong. Apple does care about the end user experience, and from what I can see, Apple is working very hard to ship the best products they can, given the constraints and challenges that they face on their own end.

    Apple is not slacking, at most, they probably have a bit too much on their plate at the moment. If they don't act on an issue right away, it's likely more because they are stretched thin. They will eventually get down to it, just maybe not right away because there will always be a more pressing matter to see to at the current moment.

    The best answer I can give you is "iOS 7 was a bitter pill that we all needed to take." I know it sounds apologetic, but iOS 6 probably felt polished only because it brought the fewest new features to bear. I remember sitting through the WWDC keynote and the insufferably arrogant Scott Forstall and thinking "That's it?" to myself at the end of the whole thing. Maps sucked and the more memorable features were probably do-not-disturb, panorama and 3g-facetime? It was stale and brought practically nothing to the table and I will forever think of 2012 as Apple's lost year.

    Basically, I still don't see how making updates paid will improve its quality. It's still the same software regardless of whether 1 person downloads it or a million people do. Apple is not going to magically start working harder than is humanly possible just because they stand to earn a few extra million dollars from it (which is really chump change compared to the profits from hardware).

    Your stance seems to be "If fewer people download it, that's fewer people making a bad choice", which solves the wrong problem. I don't have a perfect answer to this, but I do know one thing - that answer that you are proposing is wrong.

  8. Shirtin thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 21, 2015
    Chump change is what Apple wants when you look at the current product lines. Only the current top of the line iOS devices have 2GB of ram the rest only 1GB. Notice that all entry level devices iOS have 16GB of hard drive storage space why not 32GB.

    What is the purpose for older hardware users to even download iOS 9? They won't get extra useful features because the performance will be so slow to even use the device. Even the new features they bring is limited to the apps supporting them like split view and 3D touch. Is Apple is fishing for bragging rights that most users installed iOS 9? You nailed my point exactly in that people upgrade without thinking.

    I have said all I can on the matter because I'm just shooting a dead horse at this point. Thought maybe this would open up a different meaningful perspective on the situation. I guess I was wrong...
  9. Abazigal macrumors G4


    Jul 18, 2011
    The point is precisely what we want people to upgrade without having to fret over whether it is worth it or not.

    As for the benefits, newer APIs and security patches and bug fixes.

    For example, iOS 7 brought with it bluetooth controller support. Making it free means that it is accessible to every iPhone from the 4, and this is crucial to building up a huge potential user base so developers will deem it lucrative enough to develop for that market. iOS 8.3 brought icloud photo library while iOS 8.4 brought Apple music, which is the glue that keeps users in the Apple ecosystem. Earning chump change is peanuts compared to keeping users tied up in the ecosystem so they continue buying Apple products (or at least, not switching to a competing brand).

    It's a lot easier to say "consider our user base starting from the iPhone 4" than "consider our user base starting from those with iPhone 4 and are willing to pay".

    Then, it was recently reported of a new malware for iOS in the while, only for Apple to come out and clarify that this was already fixed in iOS 8.4. Which means even the 4s is patched against this. And Apple wants people to believe that their platform is safe and secure and part of this involves always staying on the latest version of iOS.

    Way more pros than cons, IMO.
  10. jfreed macrumors regular

    Jun 9, 2015
    New York
    I honestly wonder where the characterization of Cook as a "business man" comes from? If anything, he seems more grounded than Jobs. They both have unique and different pluses and minuses. I also don't think Jobs would have a "business" man be his interim CEO while he took his time off to deal with his illness.
  11. Shirtin thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 21, 2015
    Steve Jobs intrusted the president of Pepsi Cola to help run Apple back in the day.
  12. BillyMatt87 macrumors 6502a

    Dec 23, 2013
    iOS 6 >>>> iOS 7+

    Scott Forstall >>> Craig Federighi + Jony Ive

    Apple's software was so much better in every way under Forstall and Cook was a complete fool to fire him. He made iOS happen!

    iOS 7 was an unnecessary and hideous redesign only done to remove the (mostly) glorious mark Forstall made and by doing that, Ive and Federighi ruined an OS that I enjoyed using on a day-to-day basis, now it's an OS that I can just barely tolerate.

    When Forstall was in charge of software, everything for the most part worked better and the software looked distinctly Apple, now it looks like a poor attempt at being Android or some other flat UI.

    People were complaining that the previous look of iOS was stale, well I think the new design is looking more stale and the old UI was miles better because it was designed by people who actually understood how UI works and not a vanity project for a talented HARDWARE designer. I would've been happy if they had continued the previous look of iOS for another 10 years (as long as they added all of the same features introduced in recent versions), now I'm anxiously waiting for a better redesign.

    Plus the UI still looks pathetically unfinished, inconsistent and unpolished. You can fix the bugs and the performance issues but at the end of the day, if the UI is still ugly and less functional than the versions before it, then that's where the true problem lies.
  13. Abazigal macrumors G4


    Jul 18, 2011
    Well, I have come to love iOS 7 moreso than iOS 6. I think that as iOS became more and more complex, you needed a more simplistic UI where you can hide the controls so they don't end up cluttering the interface, and the clever use of layers certainly makes possible features like extensions.

    I must admit that when iOS 7 first came out, it seemed a bit like "doing for the sake of doing", but it made sense when you are doing something like bringing up control centre and layering it over a new email in the mail app (just try it), even more sense when iOS 8 was released (flat app icons don't look out of place on a white share sheet menu regardless of how they are designed), and now makes perfect sense with iOS 9. Can you imagine the Apple Watch running iOS 6 interface? Green felt in Game Centre? Coupons being shredded through a skeumorphic shredder in Passbook? Come on!

    I also find that the new look of iOS now fits better with the industrial design of their products. Scott may have made iOS happen, but I feel he had long outlived his usefulness. With Steve's death, he was like a loose cannon with no one to reign him in, not to mention his attitude was putting him at odds with 3 other equally-important key executives. He really had to go, if only for the greater good of Apple.

    We will just have to agree to disagree. You hate iOS 7, I love it. Let's leave it at that.
  14. AtheistP3ace macrumors 6502a


    Sep 17, 2014
    Yea not seeing the logic here. Charging won't make the software better. The only thing I can see to improve is make the yearly new OS releases a longer release time. That will give more time for less bugs and better performance.
  15. MEJHarrison macrumors 65816

    Feb 2, 2009
    As a computer programmer myself, I find the whole idea absurd.

    First of all, where does that $9.99 go? To the developers? The people actually fixing the bugs? No, it would go straight into Apple's coffers. Apple's bank account growing at a quicker rate would do NOTHING to fix bugs.

    Second, even if it did go to the developers, you seem to be implying that they would somehow be better at their job and be smarter at fixing bugs if someone stuck a $10 in their pocket. I can tell you right now, that's just not true (not to mention it's extremely insulting). And even if you did find a fool willing to clock in insane extra hours to pick up another $10 or $20 or $500, more time would NOT equal more bugs fixed. You'd have developers burning themselves out and stretching themselves too thin. We're not robots that can simply process whatever you shove into us.

    Third, I'm sure there are those who will say to use the extra money to hire more people. Again, that's not a realistic argument. There is a point of diminishing returns where more people just get in the way and slow the whole project down. Where I work we attempt to keep our team sizes down to 7-10 people. With more people than that on a team, the size starts being a detriment to the work you're trying to accomplish. Say your wife is cooking dinner. If you go in and help, it will really speed the job along. Now imagine you bring in 150 people from the surrounding neighborhoods to help cook that dinner. Hopefully it's obviously that your dinner won't be arriving anytime soon. Too many people would slow things down, not speed things up.

    Finally, charging for updates means far less people updating. And that means we move forward far more slowly than we would today. There would be too many people being left behind, so fewer app developers would take advantage of the latest and greatest that Apple has to offer. We wouldn't be where we are today if they cost money (my opinion).

    Too many people think they know all there is to know about "fixing bugs" when they clearly have no clue how it all works.
  16. Shirtin thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 21, 2015
    I will answer these in points

    1-3. A small fee is incentive for Apple to make a better iOS. It is the old saying make a good product that people want and you will get paid. Make a crappy product and make less money. This is the basic principle of why people buy good products. Yes people will also buy bad and unreliable products also like on infomercials. Bad products have a short lifespan and usually costs are not impactful.

    4. Less people updating will not stop innovation and features to slow down. I would argue that less people adopting will make Apple want to do more to get the next sale.

    5. Clearly I don't know how to fix bugs especially since I only took one programming class in college. I do know that iOS 6 had a lot less bugs then I encountered with all iOS 8 updates.

    Are you guys are just upset cause you know I am right? Maybe I am "attacking" your precious Apple (own an iPad Air 2). I like all technology that works great and I don't idiolize any company. The quicker we all realize that most company's don't care about the end user the sooner we can enjoy better products.
  17. bigchrisfgb macrumors 65816

    Jan 24, 2010
    Paying for iOS would mean that less people would update and bugs will be less likely to be found, and with less users less likely to be fixed. Who are you fixing it for? The 10% who upgraded?
    Also new software comes with security updates, Apple's core philosophy is privacy and security, if they aren't providing that then what is the advantage over other phones?

    What do you mean phones don't need apps anymore? Apple gets your money from the hardware they sell, Google gets their money from the ad revenue the push out, that's why both companies will keep giving you free software. The only company to keep charging for software is Microsoft, they have had start releasing their own hardware and put out trial and free upgrade periods in order to keep customers from switching away from their platform.
  18. Shirtin, Oct 11, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015

    Shirtin thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 21, 2015
    So what is the big deal about people not upgrading? I have personally upgraded from iOS 8.1 to iOS 8.4.1 and have personally seen bugs added to almost every new release. Yes, some of the updates fixed glitches and performance issues at the cost of added new bugs.

    Phones don't need apps to join their ecosystem to make it a selling point for consumers like in the past. The business has changed from the early days of mobile operating systems.

    Added: I am sorry if you think your information is secure just because of a new operating system update. The U.S. Government, retail outlets, mobile companies, media companies, and credit bureaus have all been hacked so there goes your security...
  19. treichert macrumors 6502

    Nov 7, 2007
    Aachen, Germany
    Yeah, like iOS 6 Maps.
  20. Shirtin thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 21, 2015
    That app was mostly office politics. Tim Cook put an impossible deadline on Forstall to get him fired. Forstall didn't even sign the apology letter Apple wrote to the public.
  21. BillyMatt87 macrumors 6502a

    Dec 23, 2013
    I'd rather have one unfinished (that will be much improved later on) app then a complete system redesign that not only ruins the look and feel of iOS but also completely destabilizes a previously rock-solid user experience.

    The iOS 6 Maps controversy pales in comparison to anything iOS 7+

    In the grand scheme of things, firing Forstall was a HUGE mistake and now the software at Apple is being designed and engineered by people who have absolutely no idea what they're doing...
  22. chrfr macrumors 604

    Jul 11, 2009
    Here's the thing about being CEO: you can fire people without making up excuses as to why you're doing so.
    Apple had to move away from Google Maps as they could not continue to rely on their #1 competitor in mobile OS for mapping.
    Nobody outside of the company knows the real reasons why Forstall was fired.
  23. baller1308 macrumors 65816

    Dec 8, 2009
    Imagine the amount of rage compared to what we're seeing now if people paid to upgrade and had similar issues.
  24. MEJHarrison macrumors 65816

    Feb 2, 2009
    Well, clearly we're talking apples and oil filters here. So rather than make another attempt at an intelligent discussion, I think I'm just going to cut my losses on this one. Anything else just seems like a major waste of time.

    Best of luck getting Apple back on the straight and narrow.
  25. Shirtin thread starter macrumors regular

    Sep 21, 2015
    No sorry a CEO has to answer to shareholders especially if they are going to fire a person who Steve Jobs personally recommended. It would look really bad if the new CEO fired Forstall without any reason.

    Well you have any smart ideas on how to make iOS better I'm all for it. There are other avenues like rehiring Forstall or maybe letting users redownload older iOS versions. There has to be a way to make iOS better performing and relatively bug free.

    Maybe that rage from users is what is needed to make iOS great again. It's a far better solution than to have all the current users feel like iOS is crap. Maybe Apple doesn't care and wants people to keep buying new products to make iOS work correctly?

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