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It’s never as simple as you make it sound. As far as Apple goes when it comes to smartwatches, they emit 75% less CO2 into the atmosphere than other brands. 😮‍💨
Yes it’s never as simple but the production spans from raw material all the way to being shipped to retail stores or delivered to customers. Apple may be able to claim whatever processes they control are “carbon neutral” but other companies in other processes don’t care and them aren’t helping, meaning by producing one watch likely enough CO2 (or other more harmful gas) has already been released into atmosphere to make it not “carbon neutral”.
 
The message that this sends to corporations everywhere is: don't try to be carbon neutral – most people don't give a damn and those who do would rather drag you into court than appreciate what you do.
So let’s introduce more extreme weathers all over the world then. Why bother when we are all going to be doomed anyway. Burn all the fossil fuels and release all the stored carbon into the atmosphere. It’s going to be ok.
 
Carbon neutral is NOT equal to resource neutral. It is possible to release carbon during production and capture somewhere else. However, what we currently allow as carbon capture is not really correct, since many of the programmes used are not efficient or long term. Planting trees for logging is not a long term solution but only a delay until you use the tree.
Mac Rumors may censor this, but it is plainly ******** (BS).
 
So let’s introduce more extreme weathers all over the world then. Why bother when we are all going to be doomed anyway. Burn all the fossil fuels and release all the stored carbon into the atmosphere. It’s going to be ok.

That seems to be the effective consensus among those who applaud the court decision, even if for different reasons. Some reckon it's just a marketing lie and nobody cares about Apple Watches being carbon neutral. Other feel that Apple should be punished for trying and not being perfect. The German court clearly prefers to poke holes in Apple's efforts, rather than commending it for doing a lot more than most of its competitors do.
 
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Trees and all plants love CO2 they thrive from it. Many farmers pump CO2 into their greenhouse to help the plants.
Yes, and they absorb the CO2 over their lifetime, they don't a) absorb the CO2 where it was generated and b) absorb all the CO2 made during manufacturing when they are planted.

They absorb CO2 over years. Allegedly, the land that was leased to plant the trees on Apple's behalf can be used until 2029, after which it could be deforested again, then sold to the next tech company to offset their CO2 emissions. That is silly. Those trees absorb and hold the CO2 until they are cut down, then all benefits are lost, they stop absorbing the CO2 and if the are burnt (in part of whole), for example, the CO2 they have absorbed is released again. These trees need to grow for a minimum of, probably, 50 years to be effective, but they are only guaranteed a life until 2029, after which anything could happen.

A Eucalyptus tree, being a fast growing tree, could absorb anywhere from 10Kg to 40Kg per year, the Apple Watch generates around 40Kg during its manufacturing process (Apple Report on their home page from 2019, I didn't find a newer one after a quick search). That means they need to plant at between 1 and 4 trees per Watch sold, if they want to recoup the CO2 in the first year. For each additional year the tree grows, it will absorb another "Watch" of CO2, but, again, is only effective as long as it is growing.

Planting trees is necessary, deforestation is causing big problems, so good that Apple is using these companies to reforest areas, but they are using a monoculture of non-native trees, both of which have proven to be bad. Germany found that out a couple of decades ago and is busily replanting its forests, because many of the local, indigenous trees were ripped out and replace by pine, which is not native, but fast growing. But they had ripped out dozens of different species of tree and replaced them with a mono-culture, because that was easier to earn money on. Disease and weather changes have meant that large swathes of those pine forests have died off and they are currently replanting them with oak, ash, birch etc. in a mix, because that is more resilient, even if the trees take longer to grow, until they can be felled, and they can't just wade through and fell everything in their path, because they have to cut down only selected trees.

The concentration should be in increasing the longevity of products, so that they don't need to make as many, and optimizing the manufacturing process to create less waste, especially in green house gases and the use of poisonous substances.
 
Same situation with electric cars; customers think they're eco-friendly vehicles. It's all just poor marketing to sell you more.
 
That seems to be the effective consensus among those who applaud the court decision, even if for different reasons. Some reckon it's just a marketing lie and nobody cares about Apple Watches being carbon neutral. Other feel that Apple should be punished for trying and not being perfect. The German court clearly prefers to poke holes in Apple's efforts, rather than commending it for doing a lot more than most of its competitors do.

You continue to refuse to acknowledge what the court decision was about.

No one's raking Apple over the coals for trying to be carbon-neutral with product XYZ.
They just are not allowed to lie in their advertising.
 
That seems to be the effective consensus among those who applaud the court decision, even if for different reasons. Some reckon it's just a marketing lie and nobody cares about Apple Watches being carbon neutral. Other feel that Apple should be punished for trying and not being perfect. The German court clearly prefers to poke holes in Apple's efforts, rather than commending it for doing a lot more than most of its competitors do.
Ok apparently the correct move is to destroy the Earth climate as soon as possible so human go extinct while the Earth does its full reset of the whole ecosystem and biodiversity. Quite a way to protect the environment I have to say. Not what I like but sure, do nothing is also doing something.
 
My understanding is that the CO2 offset of the trees that is counted towards the carbon neutrality requires the trees to live their full natural lives. If they don’t, then the actual CO2 savings are less than claimed by the certificate.
IF that is the case. I'm still going to call fowl on that ruling. Reason being. Who's checking the trees? What happens if just one(or hundred) falls on its own with no outside help? Are we drilling core samples to ensure they will "live" an expected lifetime? If a tree falls in the forest, does it indeed make a sound? J/K. But seriously the bigger issue here is then the only way to ensure this is in compliance, is if Apple bough the whole damn rainforest. Leasing wouldn't even be an option to use to claim against. Which would have made it not eligible in the first place.
 
Ok apparently the correct move is to destroy the Earth climate as soon as possible so human go extinct while the Earth does its full reset of the whole ecosystem and biodiversity. Quite a way to protect the environment I have to say. Not what I like but sure, do nothing is also doing something.

Let's watch Char's Counter-Attack together!
 
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Obviously having no pollution isn't completely possible but it seems like many companies are not concerned about pollution as long as they can spend some money buying these credits.
As if you have any understanding of the requirements to produce anything. Concern is a feeling. Purchasing energy credits shoes more concern than not purchasing them.

What exactly should they do to show enough concern for you?
 
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So let’s introduce more extreme weathers all over the world then. Why bother when we are all going to be doomed anyway. Burn all the fossil fuels and release all the stored carbon into the atmosphere. It’s going to be ok.
I have been hearing that we are doomed and the human life will come to an end for the past 50 years. So far, Plymouth Rock is still not underwater, there are still polar ice caps, and as far as I can see human population is up from where it was 50 years ago. There was extreme weather 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 1000 years ago and 100,000,000 years ago. Yes the earth has changed, at one time the Grand Canyon wasn't so deep, and Niagara Falls has moved a long distance, and will continue to move.
 
Yes it’s never as simple but the production spans from raw material all the way to being shipped to retail stores or delivered to customers. Apple may be able to claim whatever processes they control are “carbon neutral” but other companies in other processes don’t care and them aren’t helping, meaning by producing one watch likely enough CO2 (or other more harmful gas) has already been released into atmosphere to make it not “carbon neutral”.
Apple is monitoring their suppliers to account for the carbon footprint they have, and factors that into their carbon emissions claims. The German court ruled that Apple can’t use planting trees as an offset, which I think is fine. 75% is still good, what other manufacturers can claim that? 😉
 
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Apple is monitoring their suppliers to account for the carbon footprint they have, and factors that into their carbon emissions claims. The German court ruled that Apple can’t use planting trees as an offset, which I think is fine. 75% is still good, what other manufacturers can claim that? 😉
German court probably want Apple to do something more than just planting trees (of which the type and mix of trees planting matters a lot), probably by not producing devices that might last long but difficult to repair and recycle. I didn’t read the ruling so I am just randomly guessing.
 
German court probably want Apple to do something more than just planting trees (of which the type and mix of trees planting matters a lot), probably by not producing devices that might last long but difficult to repair and recycle. I didn’t read the ruling so I am just randomly guessing.
Basically. Apple's a big name, and this is an Apple-focused forum, so of course it would be about Apple, but there has been a big push throughout Europe in the last 24 months or so to clamp down on "greenwashing".

In other words, Apple, as the above commenter states, can say, with verifiable accuracy, that the production and life cycle of the Apple Watch is 75% of the way to being "carbon neutral", and that's fine, as the data needs to directly link to the Apple Watch's production, shipping and use processes.

But they can't say it is "carbon neutral" (i.e 100% percent carbon neutral), because this number is not quantifiable, for a lot of reasons ( mainly, but not only, because Apple mightn't maintain and preserve the biomass used to offset the Apple Watch ).

It being about Apple makes it a story on here, but companies from many sectors / industries / services are being pulled up on their carbon neutral claims as not being sufficiently verifiable. That, and the connected fact that "carbon credits" are not nearly as quantifiable as originally claimed, is the real story behind the story.

Companies are starting to be forced to quantify and verify claims of carbon reduction, whereas up to now, those claims weren't really being checked to see if they were accurate.

I understand the agument that some people are making here that this ruling is bad because it demotivates companies to strive to reduce emissions, but I don't buy it. Making unverifiable and/or inaccurate claims is not acceptable, even if you say you are doing so for "good intentions".

EDIT: Persoanlly, I feel there should be far more focus on the gross "carbon cost" of products and services, and how this is offset and mitigated to a "net carbon cost", rather than pushing to say "this is carbon neutral". More verifiable data.
 
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If we truly care about sustainability, we need to completely flip the way we think about design: not towards endless replacement, but towards products that live endless —just like my great-grandfather’s watch still does today.
All other parts of your post I fully agree with and also one of my many gripes about today’s so-called “sustainability” campaign run by corporations. Businesses and corporations are run for profit. This in an of itself is not a problem. The problem is the thrill of getting lots of money really quick is nearly impossible to resist to some and they act like hawks taking advantage of that ripping people off. Next time you know, more and more people follow suite and here we are today. Corporate version of “sustainability” doesn’t really exist as none would be willing to bear the society cost and environmental cost of their actions.

As for why endless replacement becomes the norm today, aside from products with specific reasons leading to endless replacement (smoke alarm needing regular replacement comes to my mind), the thrill and pride of having the “newest and shiniest” must have motivated enough people in the past that the trend was set, and here we are today.

Talking about sustainability, no one discuss about having a sustainable amount of people on Earth, yet that also needs to be sustainable. No corporations want to spend money digging deep into the rabbit hole of true sustainability even for the likes of Apple and Google. Stakeholders also tend to ignore commitment on sustainability and don’t like companies losing money for the greater good, further disincentivising businesses and corporations to “do the right thing”.

I have gradually lost interest in following how corporations doing their “sustainability contribution”, rather direct my attention to more grass root movements that can deliver more direct positive impact to the environment. To me those people are the ones truly care about environment and doesn’t entangle themselves into politics that much.

Heaven helps us now.
 
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