Are you talking about having to build a new coal plant to offset the power usage of EVs?
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Apple Cancels Self-Driving Vehicle Testing Permit in California After Abandoning Car Project
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I’m talking about the net environmental effect of an EV power by coal power stations vs an ICE vehicle. On totality the ICE vehicle wins easily
How?
Is this for a single EV vs a single ICE? I don’t understand the scale (or lack thereof) needed for an ICE being better for the environment than a coal fired power plant.
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Mining the mineral for the batteries
The environmental impact of coal power stations
The replacement of the batteries
The risk of battery fires and the infrastructure upgrades required to support this
The charging station infrastructure required to support EV’s
The national grid upgrades required
EV’s have there place and if you want one then buy one, I know they are not environmentally sustainable and don’t want any taxes spent on subsidies or enforcing BS quotas. It’s all just progressive do-goodery without any merit.
We have to do that for the coal anyways. Better to dig up something we could reuse don't you think?
Solar, wind, hydro, nuclear all exist. There's a million ways to skin an electric cat.
The industry will figure this out, especially as fleet vehicles are electrified. No need to worry about it as a consumer today. Unless you already bought a BEV, that is.
I can't imagine not wanting to go with the arguably superior technology because something bad might happen.
I'm guessing you prefer taxes spent on something like military? Or giving the 1% an even better deal? To me, upgrading our power system is a great deal. At least that way it's spent on something I can actually use.
Plus, fewer ICE cars = cleaner air, something we can all agree on is good.
There's an argument to be made about the economic and societal implications of an aggressive BEV transition, but yours is not that. For some reason you're doubling down on the "they're not actually green" bit.
You’re changing the parameters of the question in a bad faith manner, a typical progressive tactic.
I agree there is a socio economic element regarding the pace of introduction, but that conversation is only worth having if you agree that’s it’s the right direction. I fundamentally do not believe EV is the future and neither do politicians. as I’ve stated, they would be investing massively in the power grid, they are not as this is a fad to win votes.
Petrol and Diesel refineries aren't the cleanest things out there. But I guess it is fine since we have been doing that for the past 200 years.
I mean I asked what you meant and you gave the whole process to make the EV. But are unwilling to look at the process to make a car and to power said car like you did the EV to make it fair.
I think that not liking EVs is fine, but it seems disingenuous to claim that ICE is superior for the environment then run away when folks point out that it really isn't.
in 2026 when Tesla still doesn't have level 5 autonomy or a real robotaxi service, maybe the blind tesla fanboys who fall for appearances will wake up. All one needs is a basic understanding of metaphysical truths to know FSD isn't going to magically be ready in two years once more data is there. It's worthless engaging with people and explaining to them through logical argumentation because they didn't reach their conclusions through logic and reason so they likely won't be convinced to change their opinions through reason. Their opinion on tesla is based on someone appealing to their base passions and a secret longing for the transcendent, but as Plato said, people confuse the shadows for reality. Many times in life, young people ignore the advice of those more experienced and wiser than them so they end up having to learn the hard way. The same will happen with this tesla mess and they will learn to not fall for the charms of a so-called oligarchic visionary who has been saying FSD will be ready any time within 6 months to 2 years since I was in diapers (because of his faulty worldview he interprets AI roadmaps through).
No way he is AWESOME. And I especially respect him for the interview where she says “the patents are open source!?” And he says “if someone comes along and makes an electric vehicle that is so great that it puts us out of business, I still think that’s a good thing for the world.” What a guy! No human is perfect. So I don’t support anyone fully and blindly, but Elon has my vote! Goofy, but very cool guy.
Would've been a great idea when there were rumours of elon offering to sell tesla to apple for 50B back in 2018.
Apple had the cash in the bank, and what's TSLA worth today? Apple could've 12x'd their return for shareholders; and arguably tesla would be a better run company today.
Apple started the car project in 2014 or 10 years ago so 6 years is still pretty good. lol
I guess you prefer if sources were described as "a source" rather than "apple employee". Odd.
This is what happens when you replace innovators with bean counters.
Let’s not give Phony Stark any more money.
Bro literally did an impulse buy of Twitter for $44 billion only to make it worse. Now its worth less than $10 billion. 😂
Because WHY?
Because… it takes resources to build them? It takes energy to operate them?
And in your analysis, gas-powered cars are built without resources and they don’t consume energy?
EV technology is still nascent. In ten years, the batteries will be twice as good. And then, when OPEC embargo’s us or raises their prices, it won’t trigger inflation.
Elon is employee #4 at Tesla. He joined 7 months after incorporation. The amount done before he joined was zero beyond some paperwork. He hired the initial brains of Tesla, JB, as employee #5. The three people who were part of Tesla before Musk were all gone before Tesla had shipped a single vehicle 4 years later.
Musk has overseen every single product ever shipped from Tesla as CEO over the past 16 years - he's outlasted those other "founders" by over 5x, and is currently the longest tenured auto CEO. You couldn't find a more experienced auto CEO than him because none are presently alive.
People who like to make the arguments you did know zero details beyond those that they regurgitated. Vs you could talk about this for hours with me before you'd hit the bottom of what I know on the matter.
Electric cars are doomed, and that’s why Apple pulled the plug. People keep mentioning Tesla. They are statically among the most unreliable vehicles on the market; not an example to follow. Meanwhile Toyota continues to dominate every other brand in reliability and build quality with their hybrids and plug-in hybrids.
Tesla is one of the least reliable vehicle brands on the market. Not exactly something to write home about or celebrate. Just another poorly made American car.
I recommend you dig a bit deeper on that. They push over the air updates adding new features to the car all the time. The install overnight and never cause problems. But the NHTSA told Tesla that these updates have to be called recalls, and recalls factor directly into reliability scores.
I have 110K miles on my Model 3 that I've owned for 7 years. I've replaced tires on it 3 or 4 times (at a regular tire shop). Tesla came out to me in a service van to replace my computer from the Nvidea one it was built with to a later Tesla FSD computer (paying for FSD when I ordered it entitled me to free hardware upgrades as necessary.) It's never been to Tesla's service center.
I have a Model Y that I've owned for 3 years with 60K miles on it. The tires have been replaced once or twice, again, at a regular tire shop. Its never had a Tesla employee touch it since the day I got it.
Reliability of Tesla is without parallel. Needing to replace oil and transmission fluids in other cars really aught to trash their reliability scores, as that's time in the shop where the vehicle isn't available. But people are so used to that that the fact you don't need to do that with a Tesla (or other EVs) isn't properly factored into reliability scores. Needing to replace tires and wiper blades should also count against reliability - yes, everyone will be dinged equally for now, but it would incentivize companies to figure out how to make those parts last longer.
People don't realize that with the Oct. 10 introduction of the Tesla robotaxi, by the way IMO a vehcile that must be close to Apple's original idea of a fully autonomous car, that Elon Musk has seriously dropped the ball. Tesla’s camera-based driverless already still needs to prove itself. But what about the cab itself?
It’s basically a Bang & Olufsen minimalist stlyled 2-door coupé, compact, lightweight, admittedly, with no manual controls it can be made low cost. But does it look like it’s meant to be - form follows function - the most suitable shape or 'format' for self-driving?
After the October 10 presentation, a lot of comments came down to being disappointed about what the robotaxi is not, rather than what it does. And THERE is where any company that's serious about entering this potentially mulit-trillion dollar market, should bring something that would easily surpass Musk's unimaginitive attempt to launch a self-driving vehicle...
Look, vehicle autonomy or smart mobility without changing the vehicle,
wouldn’t that be like the smartphone looking like the left... instead of the right?
Car needs a Reinvent too.
It’s basically a Bang & Olufsen minimalist stlyled 2-door coupé, compact, lightweight, admittedly, with no manual controls it can be made low cost. But does it look like it’s meant to be - form follows function - the most suitable shape or 'format' for self-driving?
After the October 10 presentation, a lot of comments came down to being disappointed about what the robotaxi is not, rather than what it does. And THERE is where any company that's serious about entering this potentially mulit-trillion dollar market, should bring something that would easily surpass Musk's unimaginitive attempt to launch a self-driving vehicle...
Look, vehicle autonomy or smart mobility without changing the vehicle,
wouldn’t that be like the smartphone looking like the left... instead of the right?