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Apple CAN’T do AAA gaming [Merged Megathread]
- Thread starter Admiralbison
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diamond.g
macrumors G5
Not really.
If devs released titles specific for Apple Silicon in the last 52 weeks they wouldnt make much money.
By 2023 & later... it would be economical
diamond.g
macrumors G5
laptech
Suspended
the iOS gaming argument is a good one because Apple have a platform where not only do they charge devs a yearly fee to put their apps on the platform but they also take a percentage of the app's microtransactions. Apple do not need to spend their own money to have games developed for Mac OS when they can spend NOTHING, get others to develope games for them and charge them a fee for doing so. All Apple had to do was provide a platform to host the games and watch the money rolling in, which they do, a few billion every year. So why on earth would they spend their own money to develop games for Mac OS which has such a small target audience when they already have a platform ideally suited for gaming where they do not have to spend any money.
grandM
macrumors 68000
Finally... someone gets it. 😉 Guess MacRumors & Reddit arent business types but actual gamers.
Would there be a sizeable Apple Silicon install base by now?
Optimistically <4.5 million Macs may have users who'd game on a M1.
diamond.g
macrumors G5
Are there less Apple Silicon Macs than PS5 users? I mean this is a Unity game so it should just be a flip of the switch to enable all Mac owners the opportunity to play the game (that is already free to play).
diamond.g
macrumors G5
So from your perspective free to play loot box games is the way to go on Apple's platforms because those are the only games that make any money.
Ceed
Suspended
One of those types cares a lot more about the advancing the medium than the other. Unfortunately we don't have a Phil Spencer inside Apple, who is a gamer that very much cares about the medium alongside business concerns. Everyone at Apple has their heads in music and film; it's pretty clear their passion is not gaming (but they're more than happy to take as much money as they can, naturally, artform be damned).
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laptech
Suspended
ANY game on iOS be it free or paid that uses microtransactions is a win for Apple. Apple provide the hosting platform, the app store, app developers have to pay a yearly fee to put their apps in the app store. The game developers are the ones who put all the effort into designing and developing their game, Apple does nothing because they all ready provide everything in the yearly fee. Apple wins again by telling any app developer that wants to use microtransactions that they can do so but they have to use Apple's pay system which incurs charges 15% or 30%, depending on financial size/strength of the developer. So it's a win win for Apple, they get everyone else to write games for their platform and charge them for doing so.
The money in iOS games for Apple is coming from quantity, not quality. It's the amount of cheap games that generate so much money (+ in-game purchases). Those games are usually put together by devs in a week or so. It's not the AAA games that are profitable. So in that sense, Apple already has gaming on their platform, all it needs now is running iOS games on macOS, which devs don't want as it seems (not just for games).
diamond.g
macrumors G5
It's about game devs making money... if you're a developer, what do you do?
A) Develop a game for 5 years, blow $100M on it, then sell 100k high priced copies for the Mac (if you're lucky).
B) Make a game in a week that costs you virtually nothing in a few days, price it at $1 or $2 and also sell 100k copies (if you're lucky)
C) for B) rinse and repeat. Push a new game (or DL content) out every week.
diamond.g
macrumors G5
Then why do developers like Larian Studios bother with Mac versions of games at all if the landscape is so dire (they are for sure not doing B and C)?
Because it's free lunch. They're using their own engines, which are very dated but multi-platform (how exactly would require some research) which allows them to push out a macOS version at very, very low cost. In return, their games look very dated visually when compared to other modern AAA games. And graphics are a major seller not only for games, but also movies. The more realistic they look, the more attention will be drawn.
In theory you could do the same with Unity/Unreal based games, do basic games with "standard" graphics. But that's not what most AAA studios do. They want a title to be as polished as possible, that's why we also see graphics/performance patches and updated/optimized drivers for games. And the more complex it gets, the less likely a port with Unity/Unreal gets as well due to cost. Just look at all the assets/scenes in the official stores that are only running on specific platforms and that stuff is nowhere near the level of what AAA games do. And that is "click to buy and use" stuff only. Just look at all the other stuff that should work multi-platform, but is not: https://github.com/Unity-Technologies.
Good thing you're not a game developer then. 😉
The times of "lets make a game, because it's fun" are over. We did that in the 80s and 90s. But we also made games back then to learn things. Games were often made by a single person or very small teams. Look at AAA gaming today, sure people still have fun making games (at least some), but games are green-lit to make money above anything else.
Sure, you have PC/consoles as well and you can develop for those. We've been going in circles here... if you do optimized PC/console then how much is a Mac port going to cost you and will you make that money back from Mac sales?
Sure there are cases such as the above Larian Studio games, which visually look poor, sell in quantities of "ok-is numbers", largely due to a 25 year fanbase in the case of Baldurs Gate. How many copies do you think would a Call of Duty sell if it would be so technologically dated?
In other cases like the Anno games for example it's historical (no pun intended). These are not demanding titles/engines, at least not graphically. They've been using their own engine in the past, Windows only, then evolved that engine, sometimes even rewrite it, but based on their experience. macOS is not on their list, the solution is crossover/parallels here.
In the end, it's all about money. And if developers can actually make a ton of money by bringing games to macOS, they will. They won't rely on "x Macs sold, so in theory we could make y $ with it". Hard facts only for them.
Ceed
Suspended
I think you know the difference between exploitative, low-quality microtransactional content, vs. high-fidelity, high-production value, story-driven content, which is still being produced today (for money) in large quantities by passionate people who love making it. Please don't pretend otherwise. It's like saying every Hollywood director might as well switch to making TikTok videos now.
And people aren't making games for fun anymore? Have you actually explored Steam or the App Store recently?
Edit: If I happen to be arguing with someone that wants to play devil's advocate towards everything no matter the topic or stance, count me out. We already seem to agree that macOS gaming is not going to happen. If it does, it will very likely only come via iOS.
And people aren't making games for fun anymore? Have you actually explored Steam or the App Store recently?
Edit: If I happen to be arguing with someone that wants to play devil's advocate towards everything no matter the topic or stance, count me out. We already seem to agree that macOS gaming is not going to happen. If it does, it will very likely only come via iOS.
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Where are all those AAA games that were made for fun and not money? Can you name a few?
Battlefield 2042, nope. Halo Infinite, nope. Resident Evil Village, nope. Call of Duty Vanguard, nope. Far Cry 6, nope. Forza 5, nope. Hitman, nope. FIFA, nope. They're all in for the money.
Of course people are still making games for fun, but they're not AAA titles! They're the above mentioned titles which people put together in a short time. We are talking about AAA titles after all, are we not? Because the other stuff is already on iOS and macOS.
diamond.g
macrumors G5
The current multiplayer beta is, yes. Campaign (coming next month) will be $60 and once beta is over a Battle Pass for every season is required for $8.
Ceed
Suspended
The developers had fun making every game you mentioned. You think crafting the richly detailed Zeta Halo environment for Halo Infinite and finalizing the story arc of the second trilogy was not rewarding in a way that making an asset-flip mobile game could never be? I see you didn't mention titles like Deathloop, Horizon, God of War, Sekiro, Psychonauts, or the rest of the staggeringly large AAA content library that you can just purchase once and play.
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