Apple Captures 19.5% of Global PC and Tablet Market in Q4 2013

[Mainsail]

iPad can ADD to the experience, but it cannot replace it, a full PC/Mac does everything, an iPad is a subset. Sure, some light users can and do replace the laptop/desktop. Have you considered writing documents extensivly on an iPad, managing databases, spreadsheets, editing photo/video, downloading non iTunes files to read/watch? Running an office on iPads? They are a subset

Before:
Work Laptop provided by Employer
plus
Home Computer for personal stuff

Situation: Home Computer craps-out

After:
Work Laptop provided by Employer
plus
Tablet for personal stuff

Result: Tablet replaces Home Computer

Can we agree that there are situations when a Tablet can replace a Computer and dispense with this nonsense?

 

[tdale]

Before:
Work Laptop provided by Employer
plus
Home Computer for personal stuff

Situation: Home Computer craps-out

After:
Work Laptop provided by Employer
plus
Tablet for personal stuff

Result: Tablet replaces Home Computer

Can we agree that there are situations when a Tablet can replace a Computer and dispense with this nonsense?

Nonsense?? Grow up mate. If you feel your situation mirrors the majority of PC/Mac users you are sadly mistaken. If you had bothered to read and digest my post you may have noticed that I did mention that some light users can, and do replace a PC with an iPad.

Perhaps you should replace the work computer with the iPad and let us know how that goes.

 

[Mainsail]

Nonsense?? Grow up mate. If you feel your situation mirrors the majority of PC/Mac users you are sadly mistaken. If you had bothered to read and digest my post you may have noticed that I did mention that some light users can, and do replace a PC with an iPad.

Perhaps you should replace the work computer with the iPad and let us know how that goes.

First of all, "Grow up mate" is unnecessary. Really. Come on.

Yes, it is nonsense to say that a tablet can not replace a computer. There are many situations were this is possible. I don't know why this gets people so worked up. It might not be your situation. It might not be my situation. But the whole point of the thread is that someone created a chart that combined PC and Tablet sales, which is a perfectly legitimate thing to do because there is significant market overlap and functionality overlap. Please refer to trends in the last four years of PC sales. Almost every technology and business magizine in the country largely attribute this trend to Tablets sales.

Also, a Tablet does not have to be the only computer in ones life for it to be a substitute purchase or replace a computer. I provided the example of a person with both work and home computers.. There are many more. For example, a couple that decides to own a PC plus a tablet to share rather than buy two PCs, which used to be their only option.

And yes, I think many people are in a situation where their employer provides them with a work computer and they need a very simple solution for home computing. Maybe not the people on this site, but this site isn't an average cross section of users.

You point out that tablets might replace PCs for some light users...fair enough. But then, you conclude your post with an all or nothing proposition. As if the only way a tablet can be a legitimate replacement for a PC is if it replaces my workplace computer. Again, that is nonsense, since the workplace is not the only segment of the computer market.

 

[tdale]

First of all, "Grow up mate" is unnecessary. Really. Come on.

Yes, it is nonsense to say that a tablet can not replace a computer. There are many situations were this is possible. I don't know why this gets people so worked up. It might not be your situation. It might not be my situation. But the whole point of the thread is that someone created a chart that combined PC and Tablet sales, which is a perfectly legitimate thing to do because there is significant market overlap and functionality overlap. Please refer to trends in the last four years of PC sales. Almost every technology and business magizine in the country largely attribute this trend to Tablets sales.

Also, a Tablet does not have to be the only computer in ones life for it to be a substitute purchase or replace a computer. I provided the example of a person with both work and home computers.. There are many more. For example, a couple that decides to own a PC plus a tablet to share rather than buy two PCs, which used to be their only option.

And yes, I think many people are in a situation where their employer provides them with a work computer and they need a very simple solution for home computing. Maybe not the people on this site, but this site isn't an average cross section of users.

You point out that tablets might replace PCs for some light users...fair enough. But then, you conclude your post with an all or nothing proposition. As if the only way a tablet can be a legitimate replacement for a PC is if it replaces my workplace computer. Again, that is nonsense, since the workplace is not the only segment of the computer market.

Your summing up of my post as nonsense got the response I gave you. This forum is to discuss, not marginalse posts that you do not disagree with.

As I already mentioned those with light uses, consumption use, can replace the PC, no argument there. Perhaps the issue is what percentage of users are like that? I have no idea, I would say not many.

I don't agree that tablets belong in a stat with desktops. They overlap, but an iPad is restrictive. A prior post said why not include smartphones, well that may appear ridiculous but why not? They are computers and they overlap. If tablets were like a Surface Pro, that would make sense as a SP I is a full OS computer, in tablet form, an iPad isn't.

Why are PC sales declining? I do not feel that it's due to tablets replacing them. We all spend on IT we change or upgrade every now and then. TAblets are causing many to spend their IT spend on a tablet, and as it overlaps The PC we either spend more, or we delay the PC change as that's getting less use.most of us have and use a PC and many cannot or will not spend more on a PC ,often due to budget constraints, that's my opinion.

If the iPad got osx, that's a different story as that, like the Surface Pro is a full PC, in tablet form. Then, more would replace as they can do the same thins gas they can on a desktop.

 

[Mainsail]

Your summing up of my post as nonsense got the response I gave you. This forum is to discuss, not marginalse posts that you do not disagree with.

As I already mentioned those with light uses, consumption use, can replace the PC, no argument there. Perhaps the issue is what percentage of users are like that? I have no idea, I would say not many.

I don't agree that tablets belong in a stat with desktops. They overlap, but an iPad is restrictive. A prior post said why not include smartphones, well that may appear ridiculous but why not? They are computers and they overlap. If tablets were like a Surface Pro, that would make sense as a SP I is a full OS computer, in tablet form, an iPad isn't.

Why are PC sales declining? I do not feel that it's due to tablets replacing them. We all spend on IT we change or upgrade every now and then. TAblets are causing many to spend their IT spend on a tablet, and as it overlaps The PC we either spend more, or we delay the PC change as that's getting less use.most of us have and use a PC and many cannot or will not spend more on a PC ,often due to budget constraints, that's my opinion.

If the iPad got osx, that's a different story as that, like the Surface Pro is a full PC, in tablet form. Then, more would replace as they can do the same thins gas they can on a desktop.

I really don't believe there are many situations were a person walks into Best Buy with the intention of buying a computer and walks out with a Smartphone. I guess it is possible, but very very rare. I believe there are many more instances when folks walk into a store thinking they want to replace one of their old computers and walk out with tablet instead.

As for the chart that started this thread; Let's try the beloved car analogy.....Suppose I own an SUV, and I want a second car to commute to work, so my wife can drive the kids to school. But, car manufactures only build SUVs. I have to buy an SUV or take the bus. Then, someone starts making a hybrid subcompact that is perfect for my needs. I can drive in the commute lane, save gas, and readily find parking in the city. Four years later, a market research firm makes a chart of automobile sales and includes subcompact hybrids. Some claim the chart is invalid because you can't drive a soccer team to practice in a subcompact. But, the chart is valid, since it shows total automobiles sold. One could decide to further divide the market and chart the various types of automobiles sold, which is fine. But this doesn't change the fact that not everyone needs two SUVs in their garage, and the hybrid replaced the need to purchase another SUV.

 

[osofast240sx]

Perhaps you should replace the work computer with the iPad and let us know how that goes.

It's going great for countless retail stores in NYC.

 

[tdale]

It's going great for countless retail stores in NYC.

That's POS (point of sale not the " other" meaning

Yes, POS is ideal for tablets, a specific single task that suits a non laptop. We had severe earthquakes here in 2010 and 2011, the guys that came round to check damage and start a case for repair all used iPads . Small, cellular, ideal. This thread however is really based on is an iPad a desktop / laptop replacement. They overlap, your post is a good example of overlap infavour of an iPad.

 

[tdale]

I really don't believe there are many situations were a person walks into Best Buy with the intention of buying a computer and walks out with a Smartphone. I guess it is possible, but very very rare. I believe there are many more instances when folks walk into a store thinking they want to replace one of their old computers and walk out with tablet instead.

As for the chart that started this thread; Let's try the beloved car analogy.....Suppose I own an SUV, and I want a second car to commute to work, so my wife can drive the kids to school. But, car manufactures only build SUVs. I have to buy an SUV or take the bus. Then, someone starts making a hybrid subcompact that is perfect for my needs. I can drive in the commute lane, save gas, and readily find parking in the city. Four years later, a market research firm makes a chart of automobile sales and includes subcompact hybrids. Some claim the chart is invalid because you can't drive a soccer team to practice in a subcompact. But, the chart is valid, since it shows total automobiles sold. One could decide to further divide the market and chart the various types of automobiles sold, which is fine. But this doesn't change the fact that not everyone needs two SUVs in their garage, and the hybrid replaced the need to purchase another SUV.

The smartphone comment by on other poster was an example of overlap, which is true, although tongue in cheek, but still true for those that do not see an iPad as a desktop replacement

The car analogue doesn't fit for me, as both cars can carry out the same tasks, just not as well. You can carry the soccer team but not all of them. An iPad is restrictive. Too restrictive to work as a replacement.

However, I will back down somewhat, in that a surface pro can do anything a PC or Mac can do, as can an android tablet . iPad falls well short. Due to iOS.

If apple released the rumoured/ leaked 12" iPad Pro, and if that ran osx, then that is not a tablet ( well I guess it is) it is a 12" touch computer. More to the point it is a FULL computer that can do what any other computer can do, so it would rightly fall into the PC statistics.

I was going to start another thread on what can a Mac do that an iPad cannot. To me, that is the crux of the PC / tablet discussion. So, I use an iPad as an extra,and as I type on this iPad Air, but I cannot gets close to replacing a PC. Cannot download TV that I cannot get here in NZ, cannot play all videos, cannot run handbrake to convert video. Cannot access all on demand websites due to flash. No file system access apart from camera roll, no multiple windows. Repeat no file system access. Great device, but it's not close.when every program has an app, when we get a level of file system access, when the iPad is allowed to be more than consumption, then I agree, it can be a computer in the FULL sense of the word.

 

[KdParker]

Lots of personal purchases maybe but will your iPad run ANY business applications?

What mainstream Windows/OSX applications run on an iPad? And how do you go about collaborative working?

I tried to wrest my wife's PC from her arms and replace it with an iPad. But I failed miserably. I didn't get past first base. This article is a bit dated but still holds true.

.

People that actually use their Laptop's for work or projects will still need a laptop, but those that really just check email and shop...search web really don't need the laptop and find themselves putting it down.

 

[Mainsail]

The smartphone comment by on other poster was an example of overlap, which is true, although tongue in cheek, but still true for those that do not see an iPad as a desktop replacement

The car analogue doesn't fit for me, as both cars can carry out the same tasks, just not as well. You can carry the soccer team but not all of them. An iPad is restrictive. Too restrictive to work as a replacement.

However, I will back down somewhat, in that a surface pro can do anything a PC or Mac can do, as can an android tablet . iPad falls well short. Due to iOS.

If apple released the rumoured/ leaked 12" iPad Pro, and if that ran osx, then that is not a tablet ( well I guess it is) it is a 12" touch computer. More to the point it is a FULL computer that can do what any other computer can do, so it would rightly fall into the PC statistics.

I was going to start another thread on what can a Mac do that an iPad cannot. To me, that is the crux of the PC / tablet discussion. So, I use an iPad as an extra,and as I type on this iPad Air, but I cannot gets close to replacing a PC. Cannot download TV that I cannot get here in NZ, cannot play all videos, cannot run handbrake to convert video. Cannot access all on demand websites due to flash. No file system access apart from camera roll, no multiple windows. Repeat no file system access. Great device, but it's not close.when every program has an app, when we get a level of file system access, when the iPad is allowed to be more than consumption, then I agree, it can be a computer in the FULL sense of the word.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe an iPad can be a replacement for a conventional computer even if it does not have all of the same functionality, since many people don't need all of a computers functionality for their particular use case. If I understand you correctly, until an iPad can perform all of the same functions as a computer it is not a replacement....even if someone doesn't need that functionality.

I understand that people need conventional computers for most work situations. They might need a computer at home too. On the other hand, they might be able to get by with something simple at home, like a tablet. Or, they might not need to buy two home computers (husband + wife), but rather a home computer and a tablet. I don't see it as an all or nothing deal.

I guess the difference is in the definition of replacement with respect to the "computer market":

1. market = 100% of the same functionality regardless of use scenario
2. market = products that compete to satisfy customers needs or desires

I assumed the chart was trying to get at #2, since it is a market analysis....so it seems valid to me.

BTW - clearly the iPad competes in the computer market, since it almost singlehandly eliminated an entire class of inexpensive laptops..ie netbooks.

 

[phoenixsan]

Altough.....

this post is informative, not new on it.....

Apple sells the tablet that is the "gold standard" in the market. People are more interested in tablet than in PCs. If any, the surprise is Apple leading the market with this combined metric (tablets plus PCs).....

But I still think that real work is made in real computers (i.e. desktops or laptops).....

 

[tdale]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree. I believe an iPad can be a replacement for a conventional computer even if it does not have all of the same functionality, since many people don't need all of a computers functionality for their particular use case. If I understand you correctly, until an iPad can perform all of the same functions as a computer it is not a replacement....even if someone doesn't need that functionality.

I understand that people need conventional computers for most work situations. They might need a computer at home too. On the other hand, they might be able to get by with something simple at home, like a tablet. Or, they might not need to buy two home computers (husband + wife), but rather a home computer and a tablet. I don't see it as an all or nothing deal.

I guess the difference is in the definition of replacement with respect to the "computer market":

1. market = 100% of the same functionality regardless of use scenario
2. market = products that compete to satisfy customers needs or desires

I assumed the chart was trying to get at #2, since it is a market analysis....so it seems valid to me.

BTW - clearly the iPad competes in the computer market, since it almost singlehandly eliminated an entire class of inexpensive laptops..ie netbooks.

We can agree to disagree, but I do see your points. It all comes down to the mix of "can a tablet do all I want", or "do i need a full computer?"

Netbooks? Well, they are full computers, they are basically Win 7 PC's in a small form factor.They can do more than an iPad. I am surprised they didn't get traction. A PC (Mac or PC) and a tablet is a great combo, they excel in different scenarios. I need to work, or do real stuff = PC, I want to read, watch, browse, iPad rules. An Apple version of Surface Pro???

Good discussion though

----------

this post is informative, not new on it.....

Apple sells the tablet that is the "gold standard" in the market. People are more interested in tablet than in PCs. If any, the surprise is Apple leading the market with this combined metric (tablets plus PCs).....

But I still think that real work is made in real computers (i.e. desktops or laptops).....

Not sure where you are heading?
iPad, SoC, iOS is far superior to other tablets. smooth, fluid, malware and bugfree free apps. Android does more, it does it all, but you need to weigh the malware, bugs etc. Get a Mac/PC, complement that with an iPad

 

[D-Dave]

Well, it counts what it counts. It probably makes some Apple and Samsung fans happy, and Lenovo, HP and Dell fans less happy. You have to decide for yourself whether the number is important for you and represents something meaningful. For example, for some reason we always see "smartphone" numbers and never "high-end smartphone" or "all phones" numbers. That's three possible numbers, one where Apple looks shrinking and two where it is stable or growing, and guess one which one is rubbed into our noses all the time.

A company developing software both for MacOS X and iOS for example would want to know the trends for Macs and iDevices separately. And they would want iPad + iPhone + iPod Touch numbers accumulated. For a buyer, iPhone and iPad are very different. For a software developer, they are very similar.

Thank you so much for that...a sane, non-biased comment on the first page...very welcome

 

[s2mikey]

Tablets should never be counted as PCs. They aren't the same, IMO. It's not just work either where real PCs still run the show. We use our iPads most of the time at home but we still have a few laptops up and running and probably will always have to. There are just some things you cannot do with a tablet or wouldn't want to do on a tablet. Period. Printing is a big one.... If your printer isn't supported by the air print app then you are kind of screwed. No USB, too much reliance on cloud computing, and typing large documents gets old on a tablet.

There are still some games that require a mouse and real keyboard too and those get played on the PCs.

Love my iPad, best tablet ever....but it is NOT a PC replacement and should be viewed as such.

 

[bawbac]

The problem with the netbook was the fact that it was the same-old form factor shrunk down to uncomfortable levels, with the same (relatively cumbersome) internal software infrastructure.

It's not just what the device can do. It's all about the how you do it. The iPhone changed the "how" for cell phones. The iPad did the same for tablets (prior to it) and PCs.

Tablets are not meant to fill all needs. Netbooks, even some desktops couldn't do this either. Doesn't mean they're not PCs.

Today, you get to pick the right PC for the job, and are not stuck with the one size fit all solution we had to endure before.

"Can I connect my USB drive to it to download files?" -Welcome to cloud computing and the wireless era, although you can on some devices (camera connection kit?)

"How about connect an SD disk just download photo's from my camera?" -See previous

"Can I burn mp3's from a CD?" -Think "floppy disk". Most don't need to do this on their PC. There are alternatives to this.

"Can I watch DVD's?" -Again, think "floppy disk." You don't watch DVD's, you watch the content in it. There are alternatives to this too.

Device sales, and the decline of "traditional PC" sales back this up. Most people's needs have changed. A rigid definition of what makes a PC is pointless. Why people bought PCs is more relevant, and is the reason why Apple's targeted strike is paying off, literally.

----------

I just see a list of excuses or workarounds on what an iPad can't do.

----------

It depends on what you mean by productivity. Some people, even some small business owners, only need to check email and do light computing tasks.

For years the device they used was a traditional PC... because that's all there was. But now there are more options.

I know a lady who owns a very successful dance studio... and she rarely turns on her laptop anymore. She can do most of her daily tasks on her iPad and iPhone.

When it's time to do payroll... of course she uses her laptop and Quickbooks.

But the rest of the month is spent away from her laptop.

I was eating at a local pizza joint and I noticed the manager sitting in a booth with a ton of paperwork... and an iPad. I asked if she can do most of her work on an iPad now... and she said yes. Her food supplier has an iPad app and she can place orders directly from the iPad.

Yeah... I'm sure there is a regular PC somewhere in the restaurant. But she could do a lot of her work from an iPad.

These are just a couple examples and it certainly doesn't apply to everyone... but it's happening.

In both those examples there is still a traditional PC in the mix. But how much longer will that be necessary? You can add a keyboard to an iPad if you desire. And as mobile devices get faster and faster... speed won't be an issue either. You can certainly be productive on an iPad.

That said... the PC will never totally go away. There will still be some people who need them.

But like I said... there was a time when EVERYBODY used a PC to do EVERYTHING... from simple web browsing to advanced 3D modeling. We all used basically the same type of machine because that's all there was. Even if you only needed to check email... you still used a full PC.

Nowadays... that's not the case.

So you frequently poll and ask random people questions on their usage of an iPad and laptop and mysteriously their response is always positive on how productive an iPad is after someone in a forum asks this question?

 

[SPUY767]

What I'm curious about is how Steve Jobs saw this coming so many years ago. He declared a post-PC world when the original iPad launched, and at the time I couldn't understand what he was saying. But for a vast number of people, a tablet now does everything they would usually do on a "computer". What's the point of getting a multi-core desktop (or laptop) when all you're going to do is surf the Net, check Facebook and send a few e-mails? For people who need a computer for more traditional tasks, those are still available and will be for a long time to come. But for a majority of people, a tablet seems to be fine.

I avoided using Post-PC in my post, but you're exactly right, how was Steve Jobs so damn good at skating to where the puck was going to be rather than where it is.

 

[Mainsail]

For those that don't believe Tablets impact the PC market. Please see this link regarding Sony's sale of Vaio.

http://gigaom.com/2014/02/06/bye-bye-vaio-sony-sells-pc-business-with-buyer-to-focus-on-japan/

 

[tdale]

For those that don't believe Tablets impact the PC market. Please see this link regarding Sony's sale of Vaio.

http://gigaom.com/2014/02/06/bye-bye-vaio-sony-sells-pc-business-with-buyer-to-focus-on-japan/

Yes, saw that this morning. I certainly do believe tablets have impacted the PC market, and smartphones as well, here is what I think

We spend money on our IT goodies, PC in past years. Now, with tablets, we either spend more of our money, or we spend that on these new toys, and delay what we would have spent on the replacement PC or upgrade. Many cannot afford to buy a new PC, and the tablet, and the high end smartphone, so something has to give. I feel that many PC sales are deferred, as we prefer to buy a tablet or a high end smartphone now, and as the PC is getting a bit less use, or a lot less use, we keep it and dont spend on it, or spend later. And, there will be some whose light consumption type uses will replace the PC.

 

[melendezest]

I just see a list of excuses or workarounds on what an iPad can't do.

And yet that didn't stop an awful lot of people from choosing the iPad's so-called "excuses" and "workarounds". I think you are missing the point.

You seem to be stuck in how an iPad differs from another form factor (i.e. laptop/desktop) Different doesn't necessarily mean better (or worse). The iPad can get photos, I can watch movies on it, I can edit and transfer files to and from it. How I do it, and the fact that it differs from the way you can do it on say, a laptop, is irrelevant. The functionality is there.

In capability terms, an iPad does not differ from a PC. Everything else is just semantics.

 

[tdale]

And yet that didn't stop an awful lot of people from choosing the iPad's so-called "excuses" and "workarounds". I think you are missing the point.

You seem to be stuck in how an iPad differs from another form factor (i.e. laptop/desktop) Different doesn't necessarily mean better (or worse). The iPad can get photos, I can watch movies on it, I can edit and transfer files to and from it. How I do it, and the fact that it differs from the way you can do it on say, a laptop, is irrelevant. The functionality is there.

In capability terms, an iPad does not differ from a PC. Everything else is just semantics.

Are you serious??? Where is the file system, where is the ability to connect to an external hard drive? How do you install Photoshop, as well as the many many other softwares that do not have a full app? How do you install utorrent, and how do you download the files if you could? How do you play a video that is full HD and a non iOS format? I could go on for hours?

iPad is a basic consumption device, and while it can create, that can often be cumbersome. In its field as a highly portable, cut down computer it is excellent. I know many Apple haters, that have an iPad, as for the consumption needs it is currently without peer. These use the capability not the iOS as such.

If the rumoured iPad Pro had OSX then I agree. iOS is a subset of OSX for mobile use

 

[melendezest]

Are you serious??? Where is the file system, where is the ability to connect to an external hard drive? How do you install Photoshop, as well as the many many other softwares that do not have a full app? How do you install utorrent, and how do you download the files if you could? How do you play a video that is full HD and a non iOS format? I could go on for hours?

iPad is a basic consumption device, and while it can create, that can often be cumbersome. In its field as a highly portable, cut down computer it is excellent. I know many Apple haters, that have an iPad, as for the consumption needs it is currently without peer. These use the capability not the iOS as such.

If the rumoured iPad Pro had OSX then I agree. iOS is a subset of OSX for mobile use

OK, so what you are saying is that:

- because I cannot access the filesystem, it's not a PC. (To what end? I don't need to, even if you do).

- because I cannot connect (physically) an external hard drive, it is not a PC. (To what end? I can do so when the drive is connected to a network/cloud. I can access content not stored on the iPad)

- because I cannot install Photoshop, it is not a PC. (To what end? I can edit my photos on it, if I feel like it with other apps. If you are not a pro, and don't use Photoshop, you're not a computer user?)

I can go on for hours too. I would not use an iPad for Photoshop, I'd use a Mac Pro. I would not use a Mac Pro for midi control and music recording on-site, I'd use an iPad or an MBP.

My point is, just because it cannot do EVERYTHING, or do it the same way as other form factors, does not mean the iPad is not a computer.

Its like saying that an electric motorcycle is not a vehicle, because it does not use gas, or pistons, and cannot plow snow or pull a boat like a pickup truck can. You pick the vehicle that is the best fit for the situation. So it goes with PCs.

 

[tdale]

OK, so what you are saying is that:

- because I cannot access the filesystem, it's not a PC. (To what end? I don't need to, even if you do).

- because I cannot connect (physically) an external hard drive, it is not a PC. (To what end? I can do so when the drive is connected to a network/cloud. I can access content not stored on the iPad)

- because I cannot install Photoshop, it is not a PC. (To what end? I can edit my photos on it, if I feel like it with other apps. If you are not a pro, and don't use Photoshop, you're not a computer user?)

I can go on for hours too. I would not use an iPad for Photoshop, I'd use a Mac Pro. I would not use a Mac Pro for midi control and music recording on-site, I'd use an iPad or an MBP.

My point is, just because it cannot do EVERYTHING, or do it the same way as other form factors, does not mean the iPad is not a computer.

Its like saying that an electric motorcycle is not a vehicle, because it does not use gas, or pistons, and cannot plow snow or pull a boat like a pickup truck can. You pick the vehicle that is the best fit for the situation. So it goes with PCs.

You said "In capability terms, an iPad does not differ from a PC." Now you say it cannot do EVERYTHING. Thats my point. It does consumption very well, to do what you want to do an a PC , its cumbersome, so you move to the MBP to do real work. It is a lite PC, very lite in fact. Designed for consumption, creation is often cumbersome, or you use lite apps. A Surface Pro can do everything, as can an Android tablet. These are not restricted by Apple's removal of capability. Example, how do you play an MP4 file? On the iPad, super well. How do you play another file format in HD? You cannot. iOS needs to cater for most PC based capability, it could do, but its restricted by iOS. Other tablets dont have that issue, nor does Apples OSX, iOS was not designed to replace a PC, its far from that. Release some of these stupid restrictions, increase file access apart from the camera roll as some users who wish to do semi serious work like to organise around their categorised files. Geez I cannot even categorise files in iBooks, I use another app to do a proper job. So, if they do not give file access, at least make it easier to manage files, not everyone lives with just a handful of content. Allow me to play any video file format, I cannot right now, I need to watch on a PC, or waste time using a PC to convert to iOS supported formats. I have to use a PC to watch what the iPad cannot play, or I use a PC to allow me to watch that video on an iPad, that is ridiculous. Release some of these restrictions, then, while not as nice, as fast, or as easy as a proper PC, you could replicate these functions and I would agree with you. Until then the iPad remains awesome for reading, listening, watching, playing. And it can create in a lite, basic, and sometimes a useful means

 

[melendezest]

You said "In capability terms, an iPad does not differ from a PC." Now you say it cannot do EVERYTHING. Thats my point. It does consumption very well, to do what you want to do an a PC , its cumbersome, so you move to the MBP to do real work. It is a lite PC, very lite in fact. Designed for consumption, creation is often cumbersome, or you use lite apps. A Surface Pro can do everything, as can an Android tablet. These are not restricted by Apple's removal of capability. Example, how do you play an MP4 file? On the iPad, super well. How do you play another file format in HD? You cannot. iOS needs to cater for most PC based capability, it could do, but its restricted by iOS. Other tablets dont have that issue, nor does Apples OSX, iOS was not designed to replace a PC, its far from that. Release some of these stupid restrictions, increase file access apart from the camera roll as some users who wish to do semi serious work like to organise around their categorised files. Geez I cannot even categorise files in iBooks, I use another app to do a proper job. So, if they do not give file access, at least make it easier to manage files, not everyone lives with just a handful of content. Allow me to play any video file format, I cannot right now, I need to watch on a PC, or waste time using a PC to convert to iOS supported formats. I have to use a PC to watch what the iPad cannot play, or I use a PC to allow me to watch that video on an iPad, that is ridiculous. Release some of these restrictions, then, while not as nice, as fast, or as easy as a proper PC, you could replicate these functions and I would agree with you. Until then the iPad remains awesome for reading, listening, watching, playing. And it can create in a lite, basic, and sometimes a useful means

OK, you make some fair points, and I agree with most. My statement that "the capability is there" was too broad for you. I should have quantified this a bit better for those who need to accomplish very specific things, in a very specific manner, that the iPad cannot achieve. It was also never my intention to imply that an iPad and a Mac Pro are equal in capability.

The original idea I was attempting to convey was that an iPad is a PC. It is. If you need more horsepower, or do some things the iPad cannot, then you need a different PC. No PC can do everything, and none can do it the same way. So, the iPad capability is there for the tasks that most people were using traditional PCs for.

People are using the iPad in lieu of the choices that existed before it. The limitations you mention, while fair, are irrelevant to those purchasing iPads. This is not limited to consumers, but creators. The iPad is a mobile device. Of course there are going to be compromises (I concede, perhaps more "compromises" than other tablets). But the point is, it is driving (traditional) PC sales down because it caters to the needs of most; it is a targeted strike to what most people used a PC for.

And it get's old hearing people say "it can't do real work", without quantifying what "real work" means to them. In my view, if I use it in the activities that I have to accomplish to get paid, it does real work. Period. Everything else is just semantics.

 

[tdale]

OK, you make some fair points, and I agree with most. My statement that "the capability is there" was too broad for you. I should have quantified this a bit better for those who need to accomplish very specific things, in a very specific manner, that the iPad cannot achieve. It was also never my intention to imply that an iPad and a Mac Pro are equal in capability.

The original idea I was attempting to convey was that an iPad is a PC. It is. If you need more horsepower, or do some things the iPad cannot, then you need a different PC. No PC can do everything, and none can do it the same way. So, the iPad capability is there for the tasks that most people were using traditional PCs for.

People are using the iPad in lieu of the choices that existed before it. The limitations you mention, while fair, are irrelevant to those purchasing iPads. This is not limited to consumers, but creators. The iPad is a mobile device. Of course there are going to be compromises (I concede, perhaps more "compromises" than other tablets). But the point is, it is driving (traditional) PC sales down because it caters to the needs of most; it is a targeted strike to what most people used a PC for.

And it get's old hearing people say "it can't do real work", without quantifying what "real work" means to them. In my view, if I use it in the activities that I have to accomplish to get paid, it does real work. Period. Everything else is just semantics.

I agree. The feed of this thread is whether it replaces a computer. yes, an iPad is a personal computer, as is a smartphone. Whether there are many who replace the PC is another point, I know of some, but these will be few. IMO the decline of the PC is not due to replacement with tablets, its that the spend is now being shared with tablets and smartphones. These are not cheap, so, we have a PC, wont spend money on one as we cannot afford it till another time. The PC is just as relevant, even though some tasks are shared with a tablet such as mobility to view the web, watch video, etc. There is just less money to spend on it, it isn't being replaced

 

[Mainsail]

I agree. The feed of this thread is whether it replaces a computer. yes, an iPad is a personal computer, as is a smartphone. Whether there are many who replace the PC is another point, I know of some, but these will be few. IMO the decline of the PC is not due to replacement with tablets, its that the spend is now being shared with tablets and smartphones. These are not cheap, so, we have a PC, wont spend money on one as we cannot afford it till another time. The PC is just as relevant, even though some tasks are shared with a tablet such as mobility to view the web, watch video, etc. There is just less money to spend on it, it isn't being replaced

Actually, I think we are getting pretty close to agreement here. There is no doubt that tablets perform most of the routine functions of a PC. Therefore, with limited tech $, some folks are opting to purchase a Tablet rather than a PC when their computer gets old. There can be a lot of reasons for this. They might have more than one PC in the house and decide to share it with a spouse. Or, their employer provides them with a work computer and their personal computing needs are simple. It doesn't really matter. The truth is Tablets are cutting into PC sales. Like I said before, the iPad essentially eliminated an entire class of laptop...netbooks, so they obviously play in the PC market. While it is easy to demonstrate that folks are often purchasing Tablets as a substitute or replacement for a PC, I think it would be very difficult to prove that people are purchasing Smartphones as replacements for PCs.

Now if we can agree to the above, then it is appropriate to chart PC and Tablet sales together, since they share a common market. After all, two products can have very different technical capabilities but share the same market. For example, RVs include motor homes and travel trailers. Trailers don't even have engines and must be towed, but I am sure somebody tracks total RV sales in the US.