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Apple Car's Rumored 2020 Launch Target May Have Slipped to 2021

SockRolid said:
Well don't let us stop you.
The Tesla Model 3 starts at $35k. Before government incentives.
After incentives, $27k.

Oh, and Tesla has taken $5K deposits on 370,000+ Model 3s.
What are you waiting for?
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Where I am (Ontario, Canada) the price of a Tesla Model 3 is $35,000 USD which at present is approximately $46,000 CAD. The government of Ontario fluctuates EV incentives depending on the given EV's market position. If a car is less premium or luxurious, it is typically entitled to greater incentives. The logic is that those who can afford a Tesla Model X, for example, do not need as much of a rebate as someone looking to buy a Nissan Leaf. And Ontarians are only entitled to the incentive after purchasing the car (that is to say after taxes are applied.)

There is 13% sales tax on everything in Ontario, including cars. $46,000 * 1.13 = $51,980.

A fair estimation of the EV incentive on a Model 3 in Ontario would be in the $7-8,000 range. Therefore, the Model 3 in Ontario would likely be in the mid-$40,000 range. For context, that price is similar to the BMW 3 Series, the Audi A4, and the Mercedes C Class. And, while I would be able to walk into any one of those manufacturers' dealerships this second and take delivery of any one of those cars within a week, there is no evidence to suggest that I would be able to get a Model 3 within the next number of years.

So yes, if you're looking for an alternative to your next Beemer and you're willing to wait a few years? Go ahead, put that deposit down on a Model 3. Me? I'm going to take a pass.
 
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So people will look like bigger douches driving an apple car..no thanks
[doublepost=1469202221][/doublepost]I bet it'll come with a smaller size battery too along with the apple surcharge. Only diehard fans would buy a first year model.
 
gri said:
Given the disaster with Apple maps (and its still horrible and most of the time wrong) and considering how often Siri recognizes my requests correctly (1 out of 5 I'd say on a good day) I don't really think I want to drive in an iCar or however the thing will be called...

In related news / rumors - the iCycle will be released in 2032 and the iFly service will commence in 2051...
[doublepost=1469136456][/doublepost]And if you crash you just held it wrong...
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Fair point - just saying that companies that are late to the game usually get punished with lower market shares or slower adoption
 
Datalinks said:
Cars are so 20th Century. Use public transport
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I guess there's no nice way to word this, but for me, one of the main reasons I refuse to take public transit is that I flat out refuse to be treated as equal with somebody like you.

That and public transit here in Toronto is so bad that it is just an inhumane punishment on anyone who can't afford a car. (and I've lived in other cities where it is much better so I do know the difference).
 
DevNull0 said:
I guess there's no nice way to word this, but for me, one of the main reasons I refuse to take public transit is that I flat out refuse to be treated as equal with somebody like you.

That and public transit here in Toronto is so bad that it is just an inhumane punishment on anyone who can't afford a car. (and I've lived in other cities where it is much better so I do know the difference).
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I just expressed my view on cars in general. Don't understand why you are getting rude but there you go.
 
invisiblecube said:
Sure wish a few of those hundreds of engineers could bring some sanity back to the Mac Pro and Mac Mini.
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Engineering and other creative positions do not scale well. One of the best books about this is Fred Brooks, "The Mythical Man Month" concerning software engineering.

Putting more people on a software development position actually slowed a project down. Yes, you can argue OO and Agile concepts but that is just deliberation of an original creative process.
 
"The group has run into challenges"

The car forces you to download U2 well enough, but it's still having problems on hills.
 
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Datalinks said:
I just expressed my view on cars in general. Don't understand why you are getting rude but there you go.
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You said "Cars are so 20th Century. Use public transport". What more do I need to know about you. Neo-hippie millennial. (not to say anything about against millennials in general. Just the neo-hippie minority.)
 
By the time it's released it'll be almost a decade behind Tesla, you'll be forced to use Apple Maps which is still inadequate compared to Google Maps, it'll probably use proprietary charging incompatible with stations already out there and it'll be Made in China. I'll stick with American made Tesla.
 
Apple's core business for some time has been shipping some flavour of iOS on some touchscreen device, with a side business of selling Macs.

No wonder trying to engineer an entire vehicle is a big challenge. To support a 2020 launch, Apple will need designs finalized, a supplier park and new plant up and running and fully tooled-up suppliers and plant. And logistics infrastructure in place.

It's no mean feat, and it's certainly not a case of outsourcing it all to a giant chip fabrication and sweat shop assembly operation in China. Car manufacturers are all working on the assumption that Apple are coming to the party and are innovating in new ways. That takes several years to come to market for a large automaker, so it'll be interesting to see how this pans out
 
TurboPGT! said:
:rolleyes: If Tesla had anyone willing to buy their cars, they'd find a way to make them, I assure you.
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Tesla can't keep up with demand.
[doublepost=1469223751][/doublepost]J
yesjam said:
It's a vicious circle: Tesla can't sell cars because Teslas are too expensive, but Tesla can't scale its business to make its cars more affordable because Tesla can't sell cars.

If you could buy a Tesla, would you? I probably would. I think a lot of people would.
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This is totally wrong. Tesla sell a lot of vehicles and are selling more at a huge rate, 50k last year, 80k this 120k next. They have 400,000 orders for the 3. Where on earth do you get your information?
The biggest problem  have is that they are pairing with BMW, a company that can't build a battery that holds charge for more than 100km or so of range and dies after 3 years. Tesla are the masters at this. My bet is without Tesla, there will be no  car.
 
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Lerxt said:
Tesla can't keep up with demand.
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Tesla can't turn a profit. I suppose the plan is to lose money on every car they sell, but to make it up in volume.

Funny though, when Apple can't make enough iPhones to satisfy demand, somebody will always claim it's due to either incompetence or a conspiracy.
 
IJ Reilly said:
Tesla can't turn a profit. I suppose the plan is to lose money on every car they sell, but to make it up in volume.

Funny though, when Apple can't make enough iPhones to satisfy demand, somebody will always claim it's due to either incompetence or a conspiracy.
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Wrong.

Tesla make 28% on construction cost for each car. They are spending a lot on infrastructure and R & D in order to reach their product and production goals. Have a look at the financial statements and spend less time on Fox News.
 
Lerxt said:
Wrong.

Tesla make 28% on construction cost for each car. They are spending a lot on infrastructure and R & D in order to reach their product and production goals. Have a look at the financial statements and spend less time on Fox News.
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I realize they are capitalizing, but making cars is very capital intensive business, so this is the inherent cost of being in a heavy industry. You can't be in it any other way. So in fact Tesla is net unprofitable, and that can go on for only so long before the hammer comes down. I hope they make it, but I have no illusions about the difficulty of what they are attempting to do, and neither should you. And if Apple really does get into this business, they will be faced with the same bottomless pit that is the auto industry.

Fox News? Sheesh.
 
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WannaGoMac said:
I will be very surprised if Apple makes a car UNLESS they plan to use other manufacturers parts -- such as the engine. Otherwise, building a vehicle is a MASSIVE undertaking due to technical and regulatory requirements.
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That would only be true if it had a combustion engine - highly unlikely. Electrical engines are easy to build, there is no need for a gear box... so the most complicated part is then the electronics which I would hope Apple can manage...
 
MarvinHC said:
That would only be true if it had a combustion engine - highly unlikely. Electrical engines are easy to build, there is no need for a gear box... so the most complicated part is then the electronics which I would hope Apple can manage...
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No, no, no, no. Electric motors are simple in concept, but not so much in reality, especially when they are responsible for providing high torque under large loads over extended periods of time. Even vaunted Tesla is having reliability problems with the motors in their cars (one estimate has two-thirds of the early Model S cars needing a new motor within 60,000 miles). Cars also involve the design and manufacturing of differentials, hydraulic (and for an electric car, regenerative) braking systems, steering and suspension, just to name a few of the complex mechanical systems found in any car, no matter how it is powered. This is even before we talk about fabrication and assembly. No, if this is really happening, it would be the heaviest lift Apple has ever attempted, by orders of magnitude, with no practical prior experience, and with no room for error. It can't trivialized.
 
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IJ Reilly said:
No, no, no, no. Electric motors are simple in concept, but not so much in reality, especially when they are responsible for providing high torque under large loads over extended periods of time. Even vaunted Tesla is having reliability problems with the motors in their cars (one estimate has two-thirds of the early Model S cars needing a new motor within 60,000 miles). Cars also involve the design and manufacturing of differentials, hydraulic (and for an electric car, regenerative) braking systems, steering and suspension, just to name a few of the complex mechanical systems found in any car, no matter how it is powered. This is even before we talk about fabrication and assembly. No, if this is really happening, it would be the heaviest lift Apple has ever attempted, by orders of magnitude, with no practical prior experience, and with no room for error. It can't trivialized.
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Many of the components mentioned are produced by global suppliers, not by the car manufacturers (suspension, braking etc.). When it comes to the electric motor, I have also read about the Tesla issues, but I believe a lof to it has to do with the extreme power/torque that Tesla has decided to offer. In a more 'normal' car the loads would be a lot less.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is any easy task, which is why we know Apple has been recruiting many engineers from the car industry.
 
MarvinHC said:
Many of the components mentioned are produced by global suppliers, not by the car manufacturers (suspension, braking etc.). When it comes to the electric motor, I have also read about the Tesla issues, but I believe a lof to it has to do with the extreme power/torque that Tesla has decided to offer. In a more 'normal' car the loads would be a lot less.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is any easy task, which is why we know Apple has been recruiting many engineers from the car industry.
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Some are, some not. Even where these subsystems are available off-the-shelf, I think we both know Apple isn't going to produce a Frankencar made up from bits and pieces of other cars. They will seek much more control than that. On the motors, I am saying they have their own issues, not necessarily fewer issues, and many of them are relatively new (which is why Tesla is having problems with their motors that their engineers surely did not anticipate).

Hiring a bunch of engineers only gets Apple though the door. The only way a manufacturer can really know about the durability of any complex mechanical component is by putting them out in the field in real-world use in sufficient numbers and for a sufficient period of time to find the faults. This is where Tesla is now. Just imagine the storm of complaints we already hear over every little issue with an Apple product today magnified hundreds of times over, and that might be close to what we can expect to hear if a car made by Apple isn't pretty close to perfect on day one.
 
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Here is a story about an autonomous Uber car driving down the wrong way of a one way street during a test in the US.

Sounds like fun, I sounds like it took a while for the human back-up driver to figure out what was going on.
 
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