Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple CEO Tim Cook and CFO Peter Oppenheimer Testify In Front of Senate Committee on Tax Strategies [Hearing Over]
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I'm English, and we're going through the same sort of thing at the moment regarding corporate taxes and tax "avoidance". I am also liberal. However, I have to say, I find the reporting of these stories terrible. I see the fault laying firmly at the feet of politicians who are unable to produce effective tax codes.
All of these stories have to start with the caveat "xxxxx company has done nothing illegal." Exactly, nothing illegal, if the politicians don't like their tax codes, or the tax codes are ineffective or not producing the required tax revenue, then they should re-write the codes. The news organisations are reporting this issue like the companies have been doing something illegal. There may be a moral argument to not employ the strategies to reduce taxes, but at the moment there is no legal argument. If the politicians are holding hearings to discover how loopholes can be closed then this should be made clear instead of making it seem like the companies are being investigated for crimes.
I also find it unsavoury how only a few companies are being singled out, where in fact any responsible, large international company is doing exactly the same thing.
All of these stories have to start with the caveat "xxxxx company has done nothing illegal." Exactly, nothing illegal, if the politicians don't like their tax codes, or the tax codes are ineffective or not producing the required tax revenue, then they should re-write the codes. The news organisations are reporting this issue like the companies have been doing something illegal. There may be a moral argument to not employ the strategies to reduce taxes, but at the moment there is no legal argument. If the politicians are holding hearings to discover how loopholes can be closed then this should be made clear instead of making it seem like the companies are being investigated for crimes.
I also find it unsavoury how only a few companies are being singled out, where in fact any responsible, large international company is doing exactly the same thing.
If you really think there is a different between a D and R, your kidding yourself...
What a joke.
Government to Apple: "Please explain to us why you use completely legal means to skirt paying your taxes using loopholes that we created and are too inept/unable to work together/(insert any number of other reasons) to fix.
Government to Apple: "Please explain to us why you use completely legal means to skirt paying your taxes using loopholes that we created and are too inept/unable to work together/(insert any number of other reasons) to fix.
M
Mr.damien
Guest
I am not, I know exactly where I am, and that's sat in a room replying to your response.
Yes it has.
No, their blood is not who you are and it should not define what you do. You are what you make of yourself. If it wasn't for a change in human nature you would still have slavery, segregation and the list goes on.
Your country elected this government, and hence it is the ally of the majority of the citizens, of which you are clearly not one of the majority.
Yes. Apple is being made an example of.
But no one is stating what they did WAS illegal. What they are doing is illustrating how companies like Apple take advantage of loopholes which should or should not continue.
How else would you debate the issue? You need examples. Good examples.
Look at the bigger picture.
ETA: For example - what he just stated. Right now (apparently) you can NOT pay taxes to a foreign country but still CLAIM a deduction here in the US as if you did. How does that make sense? It doesn't.
But no one is stating what they did WAS illegal. What they are doing is illustrating how companies like Apple take advantage of loopholes which should or should not continue.
How else would you debate the issue? You need examples. Good examples.
Look at the bigger picture.
ETA: For example - what he just stated. Right now (apparently) you can NOT pay taxes to a foreign country but still CLAIM a deduction here in the US as if you did. How does that make sense? It doesn't.
Ditto. I don't usually with agree with Rand on a lot of issues, but he's right on the money on this one. This is a gigantic waste of time and money. Would love it if Tim and Peter came back with something about how members of Congress can buy and sell stock based on insider knowledge while the general public would prosecuted for doing the same thing.
It's crazy that a senator can be described as "ultra right wing" and "libertarian". They are two different things.
Then why wasn't Microsoft, Starbucks and Google brought up. Google is a massive tax evader doing things Apple is not doing (like Caymen Island accounts, etc)?
That's why nothing should come of this. A similar thing happened in Illinois a couple of years back. Chicago tried to pass a tax that would only apply to Wal-Mart. Needless to say, the uproar and political backlash nixed it.
I wish they would ask the hard questions like approximately when do you expect the new Pro Mac to be released. 
Tim Cook should hand out iPad Minis to all the senators with the U.S. Constitution and the current tax code on them.
Tim Cook should hand out iPad Minis to all the senators with the U.S. Constitution and the current tax code on them.
An individual who goes to see an accountant will pay less tax than someone who fills out his form himself like Ned Flanders (of course it will probably cost both the same since accountants don't work for free!)
Neither are acting illegally and neither is acting any more or less immorally than the other.
So if you are a big company, which of the two options are you going to choose?
To all saying that Apple is ok because they are using "legit" loopholes, it doesn't means this is the right thing to do.
In some countries, rape are not punished, and raping is still not a good things to do. But eh, it's not illegal or punished in those countries, so it's "ok" right ?
Here is the problem, if Apple doesn't do these legal things, the stock holders will jump all over them. They answer to the stock holders.
Well they changed some of those loopholes but I've said the same thing over the last few days. Congress is full of it.
Whether you like Rand or not, he's speaking the truth and it's just logical to sit there and laugh at Levin (seriously someone punch him for his sequester remark).
You created a tax code that Apple is using...no differently then when you go and pay taxes and HRBlock gets you a big deduction.
What Congress continues to forget is the USA is not the center of the universe anymore. This is a GLOBAL economy and Apple doesn't NOT have to bring back profits. And they shouldn't at these rates.
Folks, you're getting a first hand experience at why so many American companies leave this country.
Instead of fixing the loop holes that big companies exploit, they want to bully them into submission even though they are doing nothing wrong. Wake up congress, the problem goes away if you close the loop holes. This hearing is a waste of everyone's time, something congress is far to familiar with these days.
Instead of fixing the loop holes that big companies exploit, they want to bully them into submission even though they are doing nothing wrong. Wake up congress, the problem goes away if you close the loop holes. This hearing is a waste of everyone's time, something congress is far to familiar with these days.
Oh I didn't fake to see what the point is. I get your point. I just couldn't believe that someone would actually compare those two things. Maybe you should open your eyes to some of the tragedies that happen in this world and realize that comparisons to such horrible things shouldn't be made so lightly.
But WHICH LOOPHOLES? They only want to close the ones that make APPLE money.. Their OWN accountants use many if the same tactics, only players like Apple are big enough to use them ALL at the same time.
The 80th percentile lids all piggyback on these same loophole too, just not with as much money. So are we going to take away loopholes use by Democrats more, or used by Republicans more? That's the real objective ... While the big companies like Apple laugh at them and roll around in vats of money!
I don't know. Perhaps because Apple is the most aggressive and largest company (as noted by both professors) that they were brought in?
And do you call Apple a tax EVADER? I believe ALL the companies you mention operate within the laws. That means they all take full advantage of tax loopholes.
So again - I defer to my earlier statement. This conversation needs to happen. And if Apple is the best example - it's unfortunate... but I, for one, am glad the conversation is happening.
Some people are objecting to this hearing because they believe since Apple hasn't done anything wrong - this is a witch hunt or that the government is getting greedy. Well - under current tax laws - no - they haven't.
But that doesn't mean the law shouldn't change. And the only way it will change is if it's discussed.
And who really knows. Maybe this is one of several hearings that will take place. Maybe Google and other companies will be in the hot seat then.
There's a finite amount of time for hearings.