Apple CEO Tim Cook: Hardware and Software Integration Will Set HomePod Apart From Competitors

[tdar]

Because Sonos doesn't tie into Apples ecosystem, which is important for many Apple users.

/Discussion.

Simply not true. All of my media devices are Apple. My Music is in Apple lossless format stored on a Apple Time Machine. I play on a Sonos being controlled from a Mac (or a PC) or a iPhone or a iPad. I play Apple Music, and iTunes Match. What I do not use is Siri. Because it doesn't work. But the rest is all Apple and it's ecosystem. And It all just works.

 

[truthertech]

Comparing to a $50 echo isn't really the point. Compare to $300 worth of stereo speakers plugged into an airport express, or to a sonos (if the supposed value proposition is good sound).

It is exactly the point, and Apple's strategy, since the vast majority of users of the Echo and GO use them to listen to music. If it blows them away, there's a strong incentive to pay the extra money and go with Homepod. It's why people buy the expensive BT speaker like Bose, Beats Pill, etc., when there are $20 BT speakers for sale. There is a reason Apple spent so much effort on the quality of sound and equally on enhancing Siri for music. Here's an article from this week about how people are actually using the Echo.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/technology/virtual-assistants-alexa.html

Even with fairly cheap components, Google and Amazon are likely losing money on every digital assistant they sell. While Apple will likely expand the home speaker ecosystem beyond the current Homepod, it isn't interested in that low end market any more than they are with the money losing cheap smart phones or cheap tablets. Google and Amazon are fine with producing to the lowest common denominator as long as they can minimize losses and gain by getting your information. Apple, instead, is focused on the user experience to get you to buy a higher quality product with reasonable profit margins and keep you in ecosystem. That's why they specifically targeted Sonos, and by all accounts, exceeded the sound quality of a comparable Sonos.

 

[Bacillus]

What is that device Cook is looking at? It looks like the tablet is square.

Leak!
Should be the AppleMirror for visually impaired...

 

[cmaier]

It is exactly the point, and Apple's strategy, since the vast majority of users of the Echo and GO use them to listen to music. If it blows them away, there's a strong incentive to go with Homepod. There is a reason Apple spent so much effort on the quality of sound and equally on enhancing Siri for music.

Even with fairly cheap components, Google and Amazon are likely losing money on every digital assistant they sell. While Apple will likely expand the home speaker ecosystem beyond the current Homepod, it isn't interested in that low end market any more than they are with the money losing cheap smart phones or cheap tablets. Google and Amazon are fine with producing to the lowest common denominator as long as they can minimize losses and gain by getting your information. Apple, instead, is focused on the user experience to get you to buy a higher quality product with reasonable profit margins and keep you in ecosystem. That's why they specifically targeted Sonos, and by all accounts, exceeded the sound quality of a comparable Sonos.

I don't think a bunch of people using amazon's ecosystem and willing to pay $50 or less for a device are looking to upgrade to $350 device for better sound.

Better sound has NEVER been a sound business model. CDs sound worse than LPs, mp3's sound worse than CDs. Beats sound like **** compared to cheaper alternatives. Tidal, Neil Young, and countless others have tried to compete on sound quality and it's never worked for anyone.

 

[tdar]

That's the point people are missing, and it boils down to, if most people are using their digital assistants to listen to music, with an occasional set a timer, check on the weather, etc., what will they rather have, a tinny sounding Echo, or a fantastic sounding quality speaker like the Homepod? Especially since with Amazon and Google, you don't have any meaningful privacy. (Folks should ask themselves why Google and Amazon are selling these devices at a likely loss to get them in your home.)

I do not believe that it's correct to lump these two companies together here. They have very different business models. Google is as you say. They want to collect as much about you as possible. It was once said "at Google YOU are the product." But Amazon has a totally different business model. They are not as of yet, selling advertising that we know of. They want you to have a Alexa device because it makes it trivial to order anything you need from Amazon. As in, you are making cookies in the kitchen and your hands are full of cookie and you notice your are almost out of paper towels. You say "Alexa order the paper towels." And done. The type and size and brand of your paper towels is remembered and reordered. If you are prime (as most with an Alexa device are) they show up at your front door in 2 days or less and you did not have to do anything. That is their model. It's nothing like the Google one.

 

[Bacillus]

Understood. And lack of Siri/iTunes compatibility is one of my chief disappointments/criticisms of HomePod. It's not a technical issue. It's that Apple is reserving the feature for Apple Music so I'm reserving my money to spend on something else.
As for Siri understanding of various languages that's all programmed by Apple. But to your point specifically, right now if I ask Siri to play "Devorzhahk" she asks which track and then plays it no problem, and I don't even use accent marks in my iTunes database. But also, if I were to be a rube and say "play DeVoRak," Siri understands that as the same.

You're better off than most people who get DVorJack the Rapper on their screens...
[doublepost=1516816718][/doublepost]

I think the most legit complaint of the Cook era at Apple is the missing ‘why’ from product launches. We get the what and how but not the why. It’s easy to understand why the Echo and Google Home exist. But why does HomePod exist? Is it to drive more Apple Music subs and therefore increase Apple’s services revenues?

It's the difference between a guy sitting in an office waiting to be reported to and a guy running around in labs like mad getting things work the way they should...

 

[Peter_#1205]

Who needs this ? Am I old or what ? I'm using speakers for listening of music. ? Why should I talk to some device connected to Apple/Google/Amazon/Microsoft datacenters ?
[doublepost=1516817042][/doublepost]

[QUOTE="truthertech, post: 25741513, member: 1034762"


That's the point people are missing, and it boils down to, if most people are using their digital assistants to listen to music, with an occasional set a timer, check on the weather, etc., what will they rather have, a tinny sounding Echo, or a fantastic sounding quality speaker like the Homepod? Especially since with Amazon and Google, you don't have any meaningful privacy. (Folks should ask themselves why Google and Amazon are selling these devices at a likely loss to get them in your home.)

I do not believe that it's correct to lump these two companies together here. They have very different business models. Google is as you say. They want to collect as much about you as possible. It was once said "at Google YOU are the product." But Amazon has a totally different business model. They are not as of yet, selling advertising that we know of. They want you to have a Alexa device because it makes it trivial to order anything you need from Amazon. As in, you are making cookies in the kitchen and your hands are full of cookie and you notice your are almost out of paper towels. You say "Alexa order the paper towels." And done. The type and size and brand of your paper towels is remembered and reordered. If you are prime (as most with an Alexa device are) they show up at your front door in 2 days or less and you did not have to do anything. That is their model. It's nothing like the Google one.[/QUOTE]

"Fantastic sounding quality speaker" ??? Any satellite + subwoofer setup can't sound fantastic, period. I'd like to see the frequency vs amplitude chart, but you can bet that there will be drop in the middle.

 

[Bacillus]

You'll have to hear it to understand what it can produce as a single speaker. I'll trust the consistent reviews that were pretty much awestruck by the room filling sound. As far as "stereo," etc., it won't take a hardware revision, instead the beauty and reason behind the A8 processor is what Apple will be able to do with software updates. Not only does it enable the Homepod to do things with sound that Echo, etc., can only dream of, but it allows future improvements that will make your investment in the Homepod even more valuable.

Hard to believe.
But if you can afford a HomePod, you can easily afford an additional Echo/Alexa to be understood...

 

[truthertech]

I don't think a bunch of people using amazon's ecosystem and willing to pay $50 or less for a device are looking to upgrade to $350 device for better sound.

Better sound has NEVER been a sound business model. CDs sound worse than LPs, mp3's sound worse than CDs. Beats sound like **** compared to cheaper alternatives. Tidal, Neil Young, and countless others have tried to compete on sound quality and it's never worked for anyone.

That's the point--Apple isn't trying to capture the person who wants to spend $50 bucks on a bluetooth speaker. That's like saying the iPhone won't appeal to people buying $99 smart phones when Apple is going after that market, when they are going after the 250 million people willing to pay $650 to $999 for a high end iPhone. Of course, in addition to the fantastic sound, the Homepod allows you access to the Apple ecosystem, affords much better privacy and has HomeKit, etc.

As far as better sound never being a sound business model, don't tell that to Apple who now owns about two-thirds of the premium and enormously profitable premium headphone market with its Beats line. Or companies like Bose, B and O,
Sony, Harman Kardon, Wren, Fluance, B&O, Cambridge Audio, Marshall, Peachtree Audio, Bowers & Wilkins, etc., all who produce high end audio.
[doublepost=1516817271][/doublepost]

Hard to believe.
But if you can afford a HomePod, you can easily afford an additional Echo/Alexa to be understood...

Huh?

 

[tdar]

"Fantastic sounding quality speaker" ??? Any satellite + subwoofer setup can't sound fantastic, period. I'd like to see the frequency vs amplitude chart, but you can bet that there will be drop in the middle.

My Sonos's are connects. They are hooked up to my HT systems with fiber. Playing through high quality speakers. I don't have to do this though. I might just want sound in the bathroom. Sonos play 1's are great there. And I can add a dot for $29 to control it until my Kohler Alexa mirror is available in March. As I expand my Alexa ecosystem to control the bathroom (Tub,Shower, toilet, toilet seat warmer). Try that with homekit.[/QUOTE]

 

[aperture01]

Will I be able to order stuff from Amazon with it? I've used my Alexa somewhat reluctantly until I discovered how easy it is to reorder toothpaste, toilet paper, and dumb stuff like that with my alexa. It's really changed the way I shop for things like this. Kinda is a killer feature and makes me want to keep it around.

Alexa's home integration features were kinda clunkly until late last year (which I primarily use it for), and just got a recent update but until recently have actually lacked in comparison to siri's homekit commands.

i'm positive this will sound better than Alexa.

 

[Peter_#1205]

My Sonos's are connects. They are hooked up to my HT systems with fiber. Playing through high quality speakers. I don't have to do this though. I might just want sound in the bathroom. Sonos play 1's are great there. And I can add a dot for $29 to control it until my Kohler Alexa mirror is available in March. As I expand my Alexa ecosystem to control the bathroom (Tub,Shower, toilet, toilet seat warmer). Try that with homekit.

[/QUOTE]
Ok my audio standards/expectations are quite higher . Doesn't make sense to compare these toys.

 

[apolloa]

Hmm some how I don’t believe what Cook says.... funny that. You can get an a Echo Dot and plug it into what ever HiFi you want, ok not the same but still a valid point. And give me Alexa ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, it chews up and spits Siri out for breakfast lunch and dinner IMO. No point in an AI assistant that doesn’t understand anything or just presents a bunch of web searches!
Sonos and Alexas, will be a tough combo for Apple to beat I think.

 

[Peter_#1205]

Will I be able to order stuff from Amazon with it? I've used my Alexa somewhat reluctantly until I discovered how easy it is to reorder toothpaste, toilet paper, and dumb stuff like that with my alexa. It's really changed the way I shop for things like this. Kinda is a killer feature and makes me want to keep it around.

Alexa's home integration features were kinda clunkly until late last year (which I primarily use it for), and just got a recent update but until recently have actually lacked in comparison to siri's homekit commands.

i'm positive this will sound better than Alexa.

You mean this seriously ? Are you ordering toilet paper from amazon ? I never met such a person

 

[tdar]

You mean this seriously ? Are you ordering toilet paper from amazon ? I never met such a person

Peter, you need to get out more and meet some people who are living in the NEW world.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/technology/virtual-assistants-alexa.htmlhttps://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/technology/virtual-assistants-alexa.html


There's a huge Internet myth about personal assistants in the home. Yes, Apple will be adding things over time to the Homepod, but Day 1, the Homepod will be able to do what the vast majority of users of Echo and Google use their personal assistants for, i.e., play music, set a timer or ask about the weather.

Here's a good article about the "uselessness," meaning how few are actually used of the vast majority of the Echo features.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/technology/virtual-assistants-alexa.html

That's the point people are missing, and it boils down to, if most people are using their digital assistants to listen to music, with an occasional set a timer, check on the weather, etc., what will they rather have, a tinny sounding Echo, or a fantastic sounding quality speaker like the Homepod? Especially since with Amazon and Google, you don't have any meaningful privacy. (Folks should ask themselves why Google and Amazon are selling these devices at a likely loss to get them in your home.)

Internet myth? No. Here's a couple truths.

The bald face truth #1 is one Day One a user cannot simply ask HomePod to play X song in their personal iTunes library. That only works if you subscribe to Apple Music. OTOH Echo does have a skill to let you ask it to play a song in your personal music library.

Truth#2 HomePod does not have the complete SiriKit capabilities. The user can't ask it to book an Uber or Lyft like Echo, Siri on HomePod doesn't know what to with "show me pictures of Mom," like a Mac or iDevice or, yes, Echo does. If you look on the Echo Skills site most of those HomePod can't do yet. No myth.

I use Siri/Homekit every day -- lights, locks, thermostat. HomePod right now looks like foul ball up the first base line. I agree Echo and Google Home offer no privacy which is why I don't use those systems. But that doesn't make HomePod great. Maybe HomePod does sound better than a $99 Echo, but it's 2.5x more expensive. Shouldn't it?

As a prolific Apple products buyer Apple just has not sold HomePod to me. It is useless to me because I don't subscribe to Apple Music -- talk about compromised sound streaming at 256 Mbps when ever Spotify is 320 Mbps -- a better speaker won't make marginal music sound better. To boot HomePod only offers simulated stereo unless you buy two and sync them but you can't even do that on launch day.

It might be worth a look if Siri was more complete and I could use voice commands to control my own music library. But I can't. So for me I'll stick with using my iPads and iPhone as Siri microphones. Echo is not the answer for me but neither is HomePod.

But to your question: "if most people are using their digital assistants to listen to music, with an occasional set a timer, check on the weather," the answer is the one that provides the best cost/benefit. And right now HomePod is high cost, low benefit unless you subscribe to Apple Music.

 

[Baymowe335]

Simply not true. All of my media devices are Apple. My Music is in Apple lossless format stored on a Apple Time Machine. I play on a Sonos being controlled from a Mac (or a PC) or a iPhone or a iPad. I play Apple Music, and iTunes Match. What I do not use is Siri. Because it doesn't work. But the rest is all Apple and it's ecosystem. And It all just works.

The Apple product will be far more integrated than the Sonos, I guarantee it. The HomePod experts can tell you how.

To say Siri doesn't work is just a lazy euphemism these days. She'll work perfectly for what you need it to do from a music perspective. Apple is going to make sure of that. Furthermore, she works perfectly for 95% of the things I ask of her. What kinds of questions are you asking that she can't answer? I mean specifically? How often do you ask those things?

You can't ask her stuff like, "Hey Siri, can you tell me why someone would think they don't need facts to back up an argument?"

She is task oriented.

I find Alexa = Siri and GoogleHome is slightly smarter, but I never ask hard questions to my assistant so it's just a testing factor that Google shows it's somewhat better. I still don't think the gap is as wide as people think here.

 

[truthertech]

Internet myth? No. Here's a couple truths.

The bald face truth #1 is one Day One a user cannot simply ask HomePod to play X song in their personal iTunes library. That only works if you subscribe to Apple Music. OTOH Echo does have a skill to let you ask it to play a song in your personal music library.

\

You need to go back and rewrite your post Chupa based on truth #1 being not so much the truth, but another bad Internet myth.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/23/home...eam-beats-1-without-apple-music-subscription/

 

[tdar]

The Apple product will be far more integrated than the Sonos, I guarantee it. The HomePod experts can tell you how.

To say Siri doesn't work is just a lazy eupamism these days. She'll work perfectly for what you need it to do from a music perspective. Apple is going to make sure of that. Furthermore, she works perfectly for 95% of the things I ask of her. What kinds of questions are you asking that she can't answer? I mean specifically? How often do you ask those things?

You can't ask her stuff like, "Hey Siri, can you tell me why someone would think they don't need facts to back up an argument?"

She is task oriented.

But I do not only use a voice assistant in my home to control music. I also want to control lights-from many different manufacturers. Not all of which support homekit. I want to control locks and window blinds. Now some of my products there support homekit, but some do not. They all support Alexa. I want to control my washer and my dryer and my kitchen appliances, no homekit support there. I want to control my TV and my Home Theater components, Alexa yes,Siri NO. I want to control my HVAC system. Alexa Yes,Siri NO. I want to be able to expand to things like the new Kohler bathroom products with just one voice system. Alexa allows all of that. Not just some of that. And it's true that most people report that Siri does not work for them. If it does for you great.

What we are all going back and forth about here is whether one should see Apple as the only company that can address ALL of their needs, or if it might be true that a multi vendor approach that brings the best of each type of device is the better approach. That's my choice. I love my Apple stuff, but I do not expect them to be able to solve all of my needs. I use what is best for each solution and I find ways to make it all work together. Maybe it's because I am an engineer and know how to do that, is why I think that's better. But it is not so hard that most people could not do it it they were willing to try. I think it's worth it. Others are free to disagree.
[doublepost=1516821922][/doublepost]

You need to go back and rewrite your post Chupa based on truth #1 being not so much the truth, but another bad Internet myth.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/23/home...eam-beats-1-without-apple-music-subscription/

That's things you bought from iTunes. Not things that you ripped and put there yourself. Now iTunes Match might fix that, but we do not know for sure that it will. And only IF you are a Apple Music subscriber and pay an additional $25 a year.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

You need to go back and rewrite your post Chupa based on truth #1 being not so much the truth, but another bad Internet myth.

https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/23/home...eam-beats-1-without-apple-music-subscription/

Nope. You are so busy trying to prove HomePod isn't an expensive rock for non-Apple Music users you failed to read carefully both my post and 9 to 5's article.

I wrote:

"a user cannot simply ask HomePod to play X song in their personal iTunes library." The operative word here is: ask, i.e., "hey Siri, play She's So Cold."

9 to 5 states, and I never said anything to the contrary in my post:

"HomePod can play content purchased from iTunes, stream Beats 1, and listen to podcasts without needing a subscription."

There is a wide chasm between those two. One lets me start an album while cooking dinner. The other let's me play music like any "dumb" speaker would let me do.

Also 9 to 5 says "purchased from iTunes." 95% of my music was not purchased from iTunes, it is ripped from CD. And what 9 to 5 also says is that:

"If you add music to your home iTunes library that was not acquired through a purchase, HomePod will not be able to access it. It appears HomePod doesn’t have Home Sharing, which would enable that kind of feature."

 

[Phonephreak]

The Apple product will be far more integrated than the Sonos, I guarantee it. The HomePod experts can tell you how.

To say Siri doesn't work is just a lazy euphemism these days. She'll work perfectly for what you need it to do from a music perspective. Apple is going to make sure of that. Furthermore, she works perfectly for 95% of the things I ask of her. What kinds of questions are you asking that she can't answer? I mean specifically? How often do you ask those things?

You can't ask her stuff like, "Hey Siri, can you tell me why someone would think they don't need facts to back up an argument?"

She is task oriented.

I find Alexa = Siri and GoogleHome is slightly smarter, but I never ask hard questions to my assistant so it's just a testing factor that Google shows it's somewhat better. I still don't think the gap is as wide as people think here.

Never mind

 

[Aussi3]

The joke is on anyone under the illusion that Apple values your privacy. That's a marketing ploy for them to have unhindered access to our data. They only value your privacy insofar as you buy their products.

I would almost rather trust a company like google who can tell you what they know about you and what they do with your information
[doublepost=1516811431][/doublepost]
Refrain from putting "HomePod" and "TV" in the same sentence.

Do yourself a favor and buy a soundbar. Either a Playbar or one that supports Atmos. Don't force yourself into misusing an Apple device just because it is from Apple.

I was just saying if it has a good sound.

 

[Baymowe335]

But I do not only use a voice assistant in my home to control music. I also want to control lights-from many different manufacturers. Not all of which support homekit. I want to control locks and window blinds. Now some of my products there support homekit, but some do not. They all support Alexa. I want to control my washer and my dryer and my kitchen appliances, no homekit support there. I want to control my TV and my Home Theater components, Alexa yes,Siri NO. I want to control my HVAC system. Alexa Yes,Siri NO. I want to be able to expand to things like the new Kohler bathroom products with just one voice system. Alexa allows all of that. Not just some of that. And it's true that most people report that Siri does not work for them. If it does for you great.

What we are all going back and forth about here is whether one should see Apple as the only company that can address ALL of their needs, or if it might be true that a multi vendor approach that brings the best of each type of device is the better approach. That's my choice. I love my Apple stuff, but I do not expect them to be able to solve all of my needs. I use what is best for each solution and I find ways to make it all work together. Maybe it's because I am an engineer and know how to do that, is why I think that's better. But it is not so hard that most people could not do it it they were willing to try. I think it's worth it. Others are free to disagree.
[doublepost=1516821922][/doublepost]
That's things you bought from iTunes. Not things that you ripped and put there yourself. Now iTunes Match might fix that, but we do not know for sure that it will. And only IF you are a Apple Music subscriber and pay an additional $25 a year.

Don't buy the HomePod. Many will though.

 

[kdarling]

I’m missing something here: how is Alexa / Prime Music not a “deep integration” between software and hardware with Alexa (and likewise with Google’s software and hardware)?

Apple often uses "deep integration" as code for "user lock-in to Apple devices and services".

 

[truthertech]

Apple often uses "deep integration" as code for "user lock-in to Apple devices and services".

Ahh, the bitterness never goes away. Cyber, to give you one example, the Homepod has the powerful A8 processor which has been pointed out by some, seems like way too much processing power for a smart speaker; however, since Apple not only designed that chip, but also controls the software for the systems that will run Homepod and work on Homepod, Apple is able to accomplish things with that speaker that others can only dream of. This link is to an article that goes more in depth about the advantages of the software and hardware integration.

http://appleinsider.com/articles/18...g-you-need-to-know-about-apples-smart-speaker